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Boundary Extension for City?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭ robtri


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    External



    If it's KK then why were they happy to sell land to Waterford?


    Is there a website link for the Boundary commision anyone no??


    whether they happy to sell it or not again is irrelevant to the point that they own it....


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    jasus this is nearly as serious as crimea and russia. hope your all building your battle posts


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭ fuzzy dunlop


    robtri wrote: »
    Is there a website link for the Boundary commision anyone no??


    whether they happy to sell it or not again is irrelevant to the point that they own it....


    There seems to be some confusion between KK cc "authority" and ownership. County Councils don't "own" the land inside their boundaries. They are just responsible for implementing local government responsibilities such as planning etc. Being from Kilkenny does not necessarily mean that you have some pre-ordained right to preferential treatment than somebody from another county. You can buy land in any county in Ireland and you can do what you want with that land as long as it is in accordance with the regulations which are legislated for by the national government. Being from the county is not a mitigating factor at all! People might wish it were otherwise but the fact is its not. So there really are two questions at stake. The first is can the local government needs of South Kilkenny and Waterford be better met from a more geographically local Waterford City who are more familiar with the area due to proximity or a more remote Kilkenny City who see the place in the same way as we see the west of county Waterford. And secondly if there is a boundary change can the identity of those who consider themselves from Kilkenny be preserved? Surely this is possible by just giving Waterford County Council authority over the townlands within the bypass without changing the "traditional boundary".


  • Registered Users Posts: 898 ✭✭✭ Flying Abruptly


    robtri wrote: »
    ferrybank is currently KK so no matter what you think its not...

    About half of Ferrybank is inside the Waterford boundary. The boundary can be clearly seen in google maps.

    The areas of Rockshire road, Belmuont and Abbey Park are in KK.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 237 ✭✭ The Adversary


    About half of Ferrybank is inside the Waterford boundary. The boundary can be clearly seen in google maps.

    The areas of Rockshire road, Belmuont and Abbey Park are in KK.
    And when the boundary was drawn, those areas within the Waterford border was the whole of Ferrybank. I think now its about time the entirety of Ferrybank went home to where it belongs, which is Waterford.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭ Irishlad2014


    Do the Kilkenny people over in Ferrybank still use VIA Waterford on their mail? LOL


  • Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭ mountcisco


    robtri wrote: »
    Is there a website link for the Boundary commision anyone no??


    whether they happy to sell it or not again is irrelevant to the point that they own it....

    http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/LocalGovernmentReform/News/MainBody,41934,en.htm


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭ wellboytoo


    mountcisco wrote: »

    I read this in it's entirety and if it is taken at face value and there is no political skullduggery, it is a slamdunk to extend the boundary based on the parameters set out in the guidelines.
    But i don't believe in Angels, Fairies, or God so we will wait and see.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭ wellboytoo


    There seems to be some confusion between KK cc "authority" and ownership. County Councils don't "own" the land inside their boundaries. They are just responsible for implementing local government responsibilities such as planning etc. Being from Kilkenny does not necessarily mean that you have some pre-ordained right to preferential treatment than somebody from another county. You can buy land in any county in Ireland and you can do what you want with that land as long as it is in accordance with the regulations which are legislated for by the national government. Being from the county is not a mitigating factor at all! People might wish it were otherwise but the fact is its not. So there really are two questions at stake. The first is can the local government needs of South Kilkenny and Waterford be better met from a more geographically local Waterford City who are more familiar with the area due to proximity or a more remote Kilkenny City who see the place in the same way as we see the west of county Waterford. And secondly if there is a boundary change can the identity of those who consider themselves from Kilkenny be preserved? Surely this is possible by just giving Waterford County Council authority over the townlands within the bypass without changing the "traditional boundary".

    Amazing clarity for 0430 am, Well done Sir


  • Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭ Squidvicious


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    I read this in it's entirety and if it is taken at face value and there is no political skullduggery, it is a slamdunk to extend the boundary based on the parameters set out in the guidelines.
    But i don't believe in Angels, Fairies, or God so we will wait and see.
    It does seem that Alan Kelly is serious about it. As you say, it looks as though a boundary extension will go through. That said, the timing is not great if you want the extension to go through. With an election looming early next year, it's hard to see it being pushed through before then. After that, it'll be a question of whether a new government wants to implement it (assuming that a boundary extension is recommended).

    For me, the City/County merger was very much a retrograde step. While I would have no difficulty being part of a new Waterford Metropolitan area county(comprising East Waterford and South Kilkenny), I have no desire to be part of a wider Waterford City and County. Aren't the official headquarters in Dungarvan? People argue that it makes little sense for Ferrybank to be administered from Kilkenny. To me, it makes no more sense to have the entire county of Waterford from Passage to Tallow administered as one. For example, will money raised in the City be used to subsidise the West of the county? Alan Kelly would have done far better to set up a review into our overall local government structure and carry out a wholesale review. Put in place new and logical local government boundaries and let the traditional county boundaries remain in the same way as provincial boundaries remain even if they have no administrative relevance any longer.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭ Squidvicious


    And when the boundary was drawn, those areas within the Waterford border was the whole of Ferrybank. I think now its about time the entirety of Ferrybank went home to where it belongs, which is Waterford.

    Or alternatively, transfer it all back to Kilkenny where it originally was:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 237 ✭✭ The Adversary


    Or alternatively, transfer it all back to Kilkenny where it originally was:D
    "Never" :D

    Although, it'd be certainly better to the status quo we have now where the village is in two county's.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 237 ✭✭ The Adversary


    Do the Kilkenny people over in Ferrybank still use VIA Waterford on their mail? LOL
    Actually, I'm in the part of Ferrybank that's technically part of KK and I put "Waterford" on my address. The post gets here just fine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,032 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    It does seem that Alan Kelly is serious about it. As you say, it looks as though a boundary extension will go through. That said, the timing is not great if you want the extension to go through. With an election looming early next year, it's hard to see it being pushed through before then. After that, it'll be a question of whether a new government wants to implement it (assuming that a boundary extension is recommended).

    For me, the City/County merger was very much a retrograde step. While I would have no difficulty being part of a new Waterford Metropolitan area county(comprising East Waterford and South Kilkenny), I have no desire to be part of a wider Waterford City and County. Aren't the official headquarters in Dungarvan? People argue that it makes little sense for Ferrybank to be administered from Kilkenny. To me, it makes no more sense to have the entire county of Waterford from Passage to Tallow administered as one. For example, will money raised in the City be used to subsidise the West of the county? Alan Kelly would have done far better to set up a review into our overall local government structure and carry out a wholesale review. Put in place new and logical local government boundaries and let the traditional county boundaries remain in the same way as provincial boundaries remain even if they have no administrative relevance any longer.

    In fairness to Kelly, he has proved himself very capable in stabalising the Irish Water situation after Hogan's departure to the EU. He seems to be a man who get's things done, so people should keep an open mind here.

    In relation to the City/County council merger, it might faciliate one or two more moves, perhaps towards a Waterford Regional Authority, or something along those lines. 12 months on, can anybody notice the difference? On paper it was supposed to create a lot of administrative savings, so I'd be all for that if it delivered upon that.

    One positive is that there should be joined up thinking in terms of planning between places like the city, Dunmore East and Tramore areas which are all quite reliant on each other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭ Irishlad2014


    YurOK2 wrote: »
    I don't live in Ferrybank, I live in Slieverue and have been directed by the post office to put "via Waterford" in my address, otherwise post can go missing and if it is eventually received there is a sticker on the item showing my full address including the line "via Waterford" and the sticker states something along the lines of ensure I have given my correct address to the sender. Not sure what's so LOL about that?

    I just find it funny is all, not like there are loads of Slieverue dotted all over the country


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭ YurOK2


    I just find it funny is all, not like there are loads of Slieverue dotted all over the country

    Well, take that up with An Post:confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭ fuzzy dunlop


    It does seem that Alan Kelly is serious about it. As you say, it looks as though a boundary extension will go through. That said, the timing is not great if you want the extension to go through. With an election looming early next year, it's hard to see it being pushed through before then. After that, it'll be a question of whether a new government wants to implement it (assuming that a boundary extension is recommended).

    For me, the City/County merger was very much a retrograde step. While I would have no difficulty being part of a new Waterford Metropolitan area county(comprising East Waterford and South Kilkenny), I have no desire to be part of a wider Waterford City and County. Aren't the official headquarters in Dungarvan? People argue that it makes little sense for Ferrybank to be administered from Kilkenny. To me, it makes no more sense to have the entire county of Waterford from Passage to Tallow administered as one. For example, will money raised in the City be used to subsidise the West of the county? Alan Kelly would have done far better to set up a review into our overall local government structure and carry out a wholesale review. Put in place new and logical local government boundaries and let the traditional county boundaries remain in the same way as provincial boundaries remain even if they have no administrative relevance any longer.

    No the official HQ is in Waterford City.


  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭ Shane07


    Should only be one office HQ in the city no need for Dungarvan at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭ robtri


    Do the Kilkenny people over in Ferrybank still use VIA Waterford on their mail? LOL

    and I live in south KK and i have to use via waterford..... otherwise i get well delayed mail.... the post office stick notes on my post that don't have via waterford


  • Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭ Squidvicious


    No the official HQ is in Waterford City.
    Fair enough, I stand corrected. That said, I still think that Waterford is a county with two centres and that's problematic.

    On a different note, does anyone know when is the last time that there has ever been a boundary change in this country?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭ Irishlad2014


    Fair enough, I stand corrected. That said, I still think that Waterford is a county with two centres and that's problematic.

    On a different note, does anyone know when is the last time that there has ever been a boundary change in this country?

    There was a similar situation in Limerick City/Clare a few years back that would be my guess the last time a boundary was changed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭ Squidvicious


    There was a similar situation in Limerick City/Clare a few years back that would be my guess the last time a boundary was changed.
    I'd guess that it's been a while since that boundary was changed. The situation between Limerick and Clare is very similar to the Waterford and Kilkenny situation and Limerick is still actively pushing for an extension, AFAIK.


  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭ Irishlad2014


    I'd guess that it's been a while since that boundary was changed. The situation between Limerick and Clare is very similar to the Waterford and Kilkenny situation and Limerick is still actively pushing for an extension, AFAIK.

    I thought they got the extension into South Clare, but could be wrong cant seem to find anything on google about if they got the extension or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭ fuzzy dunlop


    Fair enough, I stand corrected. That said, I still think that Waterford is a county with two centres and that's problematic.

    On a different note, does anyone know when is the last time that there has ever been a boundary change in this country?

    Kilkenny also has two centres. The second one being Waterford City. As much as nobody in Kilkenny city probably likes to admit it Waterford has much more historical and familial links with South Kilkenny than Kilkenny has. As a guy from Lukeswell said to me before. Waterford is "our town". Nothing to do with GAA loyalty just plain old sanity being spoken! Waterford is as important to County Kilkenny as Kilkenny is. More so to South County Kilkenny.

    As to your second question Drogheda expanded into Meath twice. Once in the 70's and once in 2007. The first one was similar in scale to the Waterford proposal for Waterford with hardly any fuss at all. There is the same GAA rivalry there but they seem to be able to get their priorities right or at least mentally seperate the two.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭ robtri


    I hear that the city are pushing for the port to be included.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭ wellboytoo


    robtri wrote: »
    I hear that the city are pushing for the port to be included.....

    The obvious and logical boundary is the ring road, which takes in the Port of Waterford.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,032 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    The obvious and logical boundary is the ring road, which takes in the Port of Waterford.

    Even saying it to people that it's in Kilkenny you can see the reaction on their face and how confused they are.

    You can also see that KKCC would be hopping mad about the loss of rates that would come with that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭ BBM77


    hardybuck wrote: »
    ... You can also see that KKCC would be hopping mad about the loss of rates that would come with that.

    This is where their argument falls down. When you hear them talk about it you get no sense they care one bit about good planning, development, services or in general about the area. It all comes down to we want the rates and Waterford can suffer the consequences of this rate grabbing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,032 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    BBM77 wrote: »
    This is where their argument falls down. When you hear them talk about it you get no sense they care one bit about good planning, development, services or in general about the area. It all comes down to we want the rates and Waterford can suffer the consequences of this rate grabbing.

    The argument doesn't fall down, they will make it. They'll say they can't cope with the reduction in revenues, and enquire as to how the shortfall can be met.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭ wellboytoo


    hardybuck wrote: »
    The argument doesn't fall down, they will make it. They'll say they can't cope with the reduction in revenues, and enquire as to how the shortfall can be met.

    Same way they did a few years ago when there was nothing there, and one could also add, who paid for the brand new sewage system that allowed all the development there, the massive upgrade in electrical power and gas supply that cost gazillions, not KK for sure.


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