Allergic to Work

strandroad · 08-05-2015 12:14AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

People are moaning about Tax now. Any idea for example how much it would cost to fund a decent child care system to get people back to work and self sufficient ? Or trained or even a realistic job opportunity ?

Probably similar to paying it out in cash, and children would be guaranteed fed and educated at the end of it.

darkpagandeath · 08-05-2015 12:16AM

mhge wrote: »

They mean Travellers. It's a small (20k or so) section though and can not explain the overall rate.

Asylum seekers refugees there are a number more sections as well.

I have nothing against any of the mentioned groups but they will show up in the figures. It's not as simple as say x number.

Mental health here in Ireland seems to be a big issue compared to other countries i have lived in as well. i don't' think there is a silver bullet solution.

strandroad · 08-05-2015 12:18AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Asylum seekers refugees there are a number more sections as well.

I have nothing against any of the mentioned groups but they will show up in the figures. It's not as simple as say x number.

I don't think they would show up, but if they did it would be the same across EU... Travellers would have a Roma equivalent in many countries too.

My name is URL · 08-05-2015 12:20AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

so if everyone went on SW the economy would be saved!

If everyone who was earning less than x per month, had income subsidized to that level it would more than likely have a very positive impact on the economy.

For every euro spent, more than that would be taken back in taxes as the money is recirculated and VAT & other taxes applied each time. It'd certainly help local economies and SME's if everyone was able to spend more.

Studies from all over the world show that such a system has many benefits, to health, education, well-being etc. And has no real impact on people's willingness to work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

darkpagandeath · 08-05-2015 12:25AM

My name is URL wrote: »

If everyone who was earning less than x per month, had income subsidized to that level it would more than likely have a very positive impact on the economy.

For every euro spent, more than that would be taken back in taxes as the money is recirculated and VAT & other taxes applied each time. It'd certainly help local economies and SME's if everyone was able to spend more.

Studies from all over the world show that such a system has many benefits, to health, education, well-being etc. And has no real impact on people's willingness to work.

Something is going to have to be done fairly soon in the next 20 odd years with improved mechanization loss of jobs. I think some kind of state wage and if you can get a job remove that and then pay income tax. It's a problem coming down the line. Just think of the job losses, driverless public transport for example. Driverless trucks for delivery 99% automated warehouses the list goes one. Movement of IT from Ireland to cheeper econemys all that. Automated farming.

strandroad · 08-05-2015 12:30AM

Basic income is an interesting concept but it has not been tested long term and it has the potential to kill motivation quickly when generations are born into it.
One could argue that Ireland already has one; most people would receive €200+ a week however their life turns out, with only some gaps to plug.

suicide_circus · 08-05-2015 12:49AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Something is going to have to be done fairly soon in the next 20 odd years with improved mechanization loss of jobs. I think some kind of state wage and if you can get a job remove that and then pay income tax. It's a problem coming down the line. Just think of the job losses, driverless public transport for example. Driverless trucks for delivery 99% automated warehouses the list goes one. Movement of IT from Ireland to cheeper econemys all that. Automated farming.

Danger Will Robinson, I've made your job obsolete, Danger!

My name is URL · 08-05-2015 12:53AM

Aye... population & economic growth, advances in tech & automation, and diminishing unemployment rates can't all happily coexist and flourish at the same time for too much longer.

The future will be an interesting place for sure. I hope to fuck I'm not around to see it when it becomes critical!

GaryTLynch · 08-05-2015 01:03AM

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

Everyone should be given 1000 euro a week and the way no one will have to work.

Believe it or not, the idea of a guaranteed income for all is being toyed with at the moment in some countries.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/08/why-arent-reformicons-pushing-a-guaranteed-basic-income/375600/

Bongalongherb · 08-05-2015 01:18AM

IT is the best interest to have now especially for folks that cannot work in their previous skill of construction/labouring, they will always need some-one to repair the robot in manufacturing, program it/repair it. There's plenty of free courses out there to learn the skill if you stick to it.

It will be soon said that robots took our jobs. And believe me, this technology is moving fast to remove working people and installing wirelessly programmed robots to do this faster, just like Amazon in the US.

Learn IT for a year or two and it will help to keep up with gaining employment.

KingBrian2 · 08-05-2015 01:21AM

Bongalongherb wrote: »

IT is the best interest to have now especially for folks that cannot work in their previous skill of construction/labouring, they will always need some-one to repair the robot in manufacturing, program it/repair it. There's plenty of free courses out there to learn the skill if you stick to it.

It will be soon said that robots took our jobs. And believe me, this technology is moving fast to remove working people and installing wirelessly programmed robots to do the faster, just like Amazon in the US.

Learn IT for a year or two and it will help to keep up with gaining employment.

You have to be interested in what you are doing. IT may not be for you. Always play to your strengths and what you love to do, if that means art go and paint to your hearts content.

Bongalongherb · 08-05-2015 01:31AM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You have to be interested in what you are doing. IT may not be for you. Always play to your strengths and what you love to do, if that means art go and paint to your hearts content.

Indeed, every single person has a talent in something. I just mentioned IT because soon enough it will be a handier job to get into if a person learns the skills. It's not for everyone, but sometimes you have to change your strategy and learning interests.

my teapot is orange · 08-05-2015 01:33AM

If the current bill is nearly €200 per week, to do nothing, I think people should get paid €300 (net minimum wage) and be given a job to do. A lot of people don't think it's worth doing a full weeks work for a €100 difference. If they had to work anyway, they would get out of these state jobs fairly quickly as they would seek better opportunities. I am excluding those who can't work. The bill would decrease rapidly. And as to the argument that there aren't enough real jobs, make them up.

Turtwig · 08-05-2015 02:23AM

my teapot is orange wrote: »

And as to the argument that there aren't enough real jobs, make them up.

Sure, I'll just go plant another job-tree for jobs to grow on right now.

silverfeather · 08-05-2015 02:24AM

Turtwig wrote: »

Sure, I'll just go plant another job-tree for jobs to grow on right now.

Tis called job bridge.

It bears no fruit.

my teapot is orange · 08-05-2015 02:26AM

Turtwig wrote: »

Sure, I'll just go plant another job-tree for jobs to grow on right now.

There are loads of things that could be done to help the State. If the State is going to pay out loads anyway, why not may a bit more and get something in return.

Turtwig · 08-05-2015 02:26AM

silverfeather wrote: »

Tis called job bridge.

It bears no fruit.

Aye, it's been a bad growing season.

fin12 · 08-05-2015 03:14AM

Its not about work its about getting so called "free money" because would anyone give out about somebody who never worked a day in their lives and will never work because they can live off an inheritance.

All the people giving out about the dole if anyone lost their job in the morning they would be very grateful to get the 188 euro.
Ive worked in the Department of social welfare and I've also been unemployed and It's very obvious when you are working in there that the majority of people are genuine and want to work. You work because you want a better standard of living.

Is somebody going to stop working because they are sick that the tax they are paying is going towards dole money, as if and anyone that thinks being on the dole is a great life, hasn't a ****ing clue, its **** and depressing.

The_Kew_Tour · 08-05-2015 05:19AM

Know lads who see around town who I reckon have not worked in 5+ years and no intention of work. Their Dole should be cut straight away.

Feel sorry for genuine people looking for work.

There should be a system by you have to prove you're looking for work, every month, not every year.

The system is basically too soft on lazy folk.

SeaFields · 08-05-2015 08:32AM

silverfeather wrote: »

Tis called job bridge.

It bears no fruit.

Even all the bullsh!t thrown on it didn't help.

kaloshma · 08-05-2015 09:00AM

No food for lazy man....and what best describe a lazy man than the work allegic one.

Streetwalker · 08-05-2015 09:19AM

the evasion_kid wrote: »

Me? I'm working cash in hand, saving up, moving abroad and hopefully starting a business

Can I say I totally admire you for doing so. Did the same when I was in my early 20's and never looked back. Unfortunately had to come back some years ago to look after a sick family member but wouldn't recommend to any young person staying here if they have the chance of getting out. Good luck in the future.

08-05-2015 09:51AM

People who say they are giving up work because of all the tax they pay its not going to happen its a mixture of a moan and a fantasy.

The amount of people who are too lazy to work are minuscule ( there are some by reason of logic there has to be ) so targeting them would be like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut. The issuers are usually addiction, personality disorders, other undiagnosed mental health issue. There was a very interesting document on the radios about a charity that helps those on the margins get work, They interviewed some of the participants and one said they were too ashamed and embarrassed and lacked the confidence to even apply for a job.

If someone thinks existing on 188 a week is living they should try it themselves and see how they get on long term.

These thread are often like the ones about the public services there seems to exist a cohort of people who genuinely believe themselves hard done by while the public services and those on the dole are having the life of riley.

zeffabelli · 08-05-2015 09:53AM

mariaalice wrote: »

People who say they are giving up work because of all the tax they pay its not going to happen its a mixture of a moan and a fantasy.

The amount of people who are too lazy to work are minuscule ( there are some by reason of logic there has to be ) so targeting them would be like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut. The issuers are usually addiction, personality disorders, other undiagnosed mental health issue. There was a very interesting document on the radios about a charity that helps those on the margins get work, They interviewed some of the participants and one said they were too ashamed and embarrassed and lacked the confidence to even apply for a job.

If someone thinks existing on 188 a week is living they should try it themselves and see how they get on long term.

These thread are often like the ones about the public services there seems to exist a cohort of people who genuinely believe themselves hard done by while the public services and those on the dole are having the life of riley.

The cost of childcare is a also a big factor.

A report on the radio said childcare is twice as expensive as in other countries.

The problem is that the tax system is too punitive on the employed so they feel resentful, and understandably so.

08-05-2015 10:02AM

zeffabelli wrote: »

The cost of childcare is a also a big factor.

A report on the radio said childcare is twice as expensive as in other countries.

The problem is that the tax system is too punitive on the employed so they feel resentful, and understandably so.

Its a moan, if you want pensions, education, law and order, and so on they have to be paid for.

Even if you got every supposed lazy person a job it wouldn't lower you tax's.

Child care is an issue I like the idea of expanding the community child care sector as a solution.

the evasion_kid · 08-05-2015 10:32AM

Streetwalker wrote: »

Can I say I totally admire you for doing so. Did the same when I was in my early 20's and never looked back. Unfortunately had to come back some years ago to look after a sick family member but wouldn't recommend to any young person staying here if they have the chance of getting out. Good luck in the future.

If there's one thing I've learned from my years working here and the whole celtic tiger\recession its this.....you get nothing for being an honest worker in this country.

foggy_lad · 08-05-2015 10:33AM

What a nasty little man that noonan fella has turned into! Ah but wait, wasn't he always like that!

08-05-2015 10:49AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

What a nasty little man that noonan fella has turned into! Ah but wait, wasn't he always like that!

Might be a ploy as Renua could hover up some of the right wing support that Fine Gael has so they need to have a pop at 'too lazy to work' just to reassure their supporters .

I always thought he was a bit of a Machiavellianian character.

con___manx1 · 08-05-2015 10:49AM

I'm working in a job I hate. The place is run by dopes. I would still rather be working there than on d dole. You can do nothing with 188 euro. Im looking for another Job ; ).

KomradeBishop · 08-05-2015 11:16AM

My name is URL wrote: »

If everyone who was earning less than x per month, had income subsidized to that level it would more than likely have a very positive impact on the economy.

For every euro spent, more than that would be taken back in taxes as the money is recirculated and VAT & other taxes applied each time. It'd certainly help local economies and SME's if everyone was able to spend more.

Studies from all over the world show that such a system has many benefits, to health, education, well-being etc. And has no real impact on people's willingness to work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

In much the same way, you can even use funds for that to get people working too, putting them into a Job Guarantee program instead - there is even the ability to combine both the Job Guarantee and Basic Income.

It's something that's nonetheless difficult to finance without EU help, but it's definitely something people should be talking about more and pushing for politically - especially given that it will need EU help (because not only will Ireland have to be pushing for it, but the push will have to be EU-wide, throughout all EU countries).

Allergic to Work

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