Marriage redefinition and Childrens rights

shruikan2553 · 18-04-2015 06:35PM

S.O wrote: »

Views from others raised in same sex households.

http://www.charismanews.com/culture/49185-being-raised-by-2-mothers-ruined-my-life

https://www.familyfirst.org.nz/2013/01/i-was-brought-up-by-two-women/

http://www.bettnet.com/the_real_cost_of_gay_adoption/

http://www.pureintimacy.org/m/my-father%E2%80%99s-closet/

As I read about these cases the stronger my resolve grows that voting no is the right thing to do, if I don,t listen to those voices who have experienced same sex households who do I listen to ?

American Academy of Pediatrics
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
American Psychiatric Association
American Psychological Association
American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy
American Psychoanalytic Association
National Association of Social Workers
Child Welfare League of America
North American Council on Adoptable Children
Canadian Psychological Association
Australian Psychological Society

How will voting no prevent same sex couples raising children?

S.O · 18-04-2015 06:42PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

How will voting no prevent same sex couples raising children?

I read in todays Irish times a legal challenge is being prepared in the case of a no vote.

He confirmed the group is considering taking a legal challenge against
provisions in the Children and Family Relationships Act in the event of
a No vote.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mothers-and-fathers-matter-launches-no-referendum-campaign-1.2179575

shruikan2553 · 18-04-2015 06:43PM

S.O wrote: »

I read in todays Irish times a legal challenge is being prepared in the case of a no vote.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mothers-and-fathers-matter-launches-no-referendum-campaign-1.2179575

So it does nothing?

The EU court of human rights have said that a same sex couple has the right to adopt a child.

fran17 · 18-04-2015 06:43PM

floggg wrote: »

You know that running away for a few hours doesn't make us forget your inability to answer even basic questions on the content of your posts?

I does show us all that you are talking out of your ass though.

I really do not understand why you continue to avoid reprimand for the grossly uncivil language you use against people in this thread.

kylith · 18-04-2015 06:43PM

S.O wrote: »

Views from others raised in same sex households.

http://www.charismanews.com/culture/49185-being-raised-by-2-mothers-ruined-my-life

https://www.familyfirst.org.nz/2013/01/i-was-brought-up-by-two-women/

http://www.bettnet.com/the_real_cost_of_gay_adoption/

http://www.pureintimacy.org/m/my-father%E2%80%99s-closet/

As I read about these cases the stronger my resolve grows that voting no is the right thing to do, if I don,t listen to those voices who have experienced same sex households who do I listen to ?

I'll warrant that for every one of those anecdotes you could find one from a person raised by a same sex couple who had a great upbringing, and a dozen from people raised by heterosexual couples that had awful, damaging upbringings.

Bannasidhe · 18-04-2015 06:47PM

S.O wrote: »

Views from others raised in same sex households.

http://www.charismanews.com/culture/49185-being-raised-by-2-mothers-ruined-my-life

https://www.familyfirst.org.nz/2013/01/i-was-brought-up-by-two-women/

http://www.bettnet.com/the_real_cost_of_gay_adoption/

http://www.pureintimacy.org/m/my-father%E2%80%99s-closet/

As I read about these cases the stronger my resolve grows that voting no is the right thing to do, if I don,t listen to those voices who have experienced same sex households who do I listen to ?

Vote no if you feel that is the right thing to do but please don't pretend that the referendum has any impact on whether or not gay people can adopt.
It doesn't. Gay people can already adopt.Gay people can and do adopt as individuals. Thanks to the Children and Family Relationships Bill being enacted gay people in Civil Partnerships will soon be able to adopt as a couple. Voting no will not change this.

So, while it's great that you took some time to do some reseach it's a pity that you didn't bother to learn what the referendum is to decide. It's to decide if same sex couples can marry. That's it. Nothing to do with adoption because Gay people can already adopt children.

You could also pop over to AMA and read what Sonics2K had to say about being raised by a same sex couple... or listen to a podcast of him talking about in on Radio One to Sean O Rourke where he made the point over and over again that this referendum has nothing to do with adoption because gay people can already adopt.

Have you got the message yet?

Gay people CAN ALREADY ADOPT.

shruikan2553 · 18-04-2015 06:48PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Vote no if you feel that is the right thing to do but please don't pretend that the referendum has any impact on whether or not gay people can adopt.
It doesn't. Gay people can already adopt.Gay people can and do adopt as individuals. Thanks to the Children and Family Relationships Bill being enacted gay people in Civil Partnerships will soon be able to adopt as a couple. Voting no will not change this.

So, while it's great that you took some time to do some reseach it's a pity that you didn't bother to learn what the referendum is to decide. It's to decide if same sex couples can marry. That's it. Nothing to do with adoption because Gay people can already adopt children.

You could also pop over to AMA and read what Sonics2K had to say about being raised by a same sex couple... or listen to a podcast of him talking about in on Radion One to Sean O Rourke where he made the point that this referendum has nothing to do with adoption because gay people can already adopt.

Have you got the message yet?

Gay people CAN ALREADY ADOPT.

I find it hard to believe that after multiple explanations people still dont understand this. It's as if they just dont like gay people.

S.O · 18-04-2015 06:49PM

For those who are voting yes, If voting yes to allow two guys to marry under equality banner, why not stop at allowing two guys why not three guys ?

Case from Thailand.

Three gay men have tied the knot in what is thought to be the world's first
three-way same-sex marriage.

Joke, 29, Bell, 21 and Art, 26, exchanged vows during a marriage-style
ceremony on Valentine's Day at their home in Uthai Thani Province, Thailand.

The grooms are thought to be the world's only wedded male threesome and have become internet sensations since photos from their big day went viral.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-do-do-do-three-5241726

Bannasidhe · 18-04-2015 06:50PM

fran17 wrote: »

I really do not understand why you continue to avoid reprimand for the grossly uncivil language you use against people in this thread.

You called my family abnormal.
You said my son has psychological damage.
You called my family an experiment.

That goes beyond uncivil - that is obnoxious in the extreme.

Bannasidhe · 18-04-2015 06:52PM

S.O wrote: »

For those who are voting yes, If voting yes to allow two guys to marry under equality banner, why not stop at allowing two guys why not three guys ?

Case from Thailand.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-do-do-do-three-5241726

Annnd...all off for Polygamy... next stop Incest... all change at bestiality for marrying inanimate objects.

kylith · 18-04-2015 06:53PM

S.O wrote: »

For those who are voting yes, If voting yes to allow two guys to marry under equality banner, why not stop at allowing two guys why not three guys ?

Case from Thailand.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-do-do-do-three-5241726

Because under current laws polygamy is illegal. The reason it is, as far as I know, is for reasons of inheritance. Homosexual and heterosexual polygamy is certainly something that could be look into for future referenda, if the inheritance issues were cleared up.

Grey Wind · 18-04-2015 06:54PM

S.O wrote: »

Views from others raised in same sex households.

As I read about these cases the stronger my resolve grows that voting no is the right thing to do, if I don,t listen to those voices who have experienced same sex households who do I listen to ?

Most of the people in those anecdotes had a difficult upbringing for reasons other than having gay parents (one was deeply religious and homophobic, one was molested etc). They can't be used to prove anything about the capability of gay parents.

Zubeneschamali · 18-04-2015 06:56PM

S.O wrote: »

if I don,t listen to those voices who have experienced same sex households who do I listen to ?

Me.

Everyone should listen to me.

fran17 · 18-04-2015 07:12PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You called my family abnormal.
You said my son has psychological damage.
You called my family an experiment.

That goes beyond uncivil - that is obnoxious in the extreme.

You called me a liar earlier on so now is as good a time as any.You are a liar Bannasidhe.And shame on you for using your family for a reason to get offended.

Abnormal:To deviate from what is normal or usual.

It is not normal or usual for a child to be brought up by two homosexual men or women.I don't know your son and I don't know why you would bring your child into this forum.

Experiment:An orderly procedure or study carried out with the goal of verifying,refuting or establishing the validity of a hypothesis.

Homosexual parents have long been referred to as social experiments but you only take offence when certain people say it.You and everyone else here us studies and data on social experiments by dozens of organisations in a pathetic attempt to validate a childs welfare in these environments.
Whats the matter,Does your own medicine taste as bit bitter?

mohawk · 18-04-2015 07:41PM

S.O wrote: »

Views from others raised in same sex households.

http://www.charismanews.com/culture/49185-being-raised-by-2-mothers-ruined-my-life

https://www.familyfirst.org.nz/2013/01/i-was-brought-up-by-two-women/

http://www.bettnet.com/the_real_cost_of_gay_adoption/

http://www.pureintimacy.org/m/my-father%E2%80%99s-closet/

As I read about these cases the stronger my resolve grows that voting no is the right thing to do, if I don,t listen to those voices who have experienced same sex households who do I listen to ?

There are already children being brought up by parents in a same-sex relationship. Voting no will not change this.

A no vote just sends out a message that those children don't deserve the same recognition and protection under the constitution that their friends have.

It is your right to vote no. But voting no to stop kids being raised in a family with two moms or two dads is a waste of time. It already happens and will continue to do so.

If you are really concerned about the welfare of children. Let me point you in the direction of parents who abuse alcohol because that is something that is an actual issue for children.

One eyed Jack · 18-04-2015 07:46PM

fran17 wrote: »

You called me a liar earlier on so now is as good a time as any.You are a liar Bannasidhe.And shame on you for using your family for a reason to get offended.

Abnormal:To deviate from what is normal or usual.

It is not normal or usual for a child to be brought up by two homosexual men or women.I don't know your son and I don't know why you would bring your child into this forum.

Experiment:An orderly procedure or study carried out with the goal of verifying,refuting or establishing the validity of a hypothesis.

Homosexual parents have long been referred to as social experiments but you only take offence when certain people say it.You and everyone else here us studies and data on social experiments by dozens of organisations in a pathetic attempt to validate a childs welfare in these environments.
Whats the matter,Does your own medicine taste as bit bitter?

fran I've been nothing but respectful to you and yet you still behave in an immature fashion ducking, diving and avoiding anything that even resembles coming close to an attempt at reasonable discussion.

"You started it" is simply childish in the extreme, and for someone who claims to care so much about other people's children, the least you could do is stop behaving like one if you actually want people to believe you're not just here for a wind-up.

You're yet to contribute anything significant to the discussion and when anyone has tried to respectfully engage with you, you avoid answering them, then claim you're being silenced, then come back again with something else you found on the internet (the daily mail fran, come on, who do you think you're kidding with that?), you've already been caught out so many times for lying, and I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you were mistaken or just ill-informed, but you're not, you're just behaving willfully ignorant, purposely trying to mislead people, and then out with the world's smallest violin to claim people are picking on you.

Come on now fran, at this point, the only person convinced by your antics is yourself, you're not even interested in discussion, you just want people to entertain you. I'm done entertaining you at this point tbh.

Bannasidhe · 18-04-2015 08:05PM

fran17 wrote: »

You called me a liar earlier on so now is as good a time as any.You are a liar Bannasidhe.And shame on you for using your family for a reason to get offended.

Abnormal:To deviate from what is normal or usual.

It is not normal or usual for a child to be brought up by two homosexual men or women.I don't know your son and I don't know why you would bring your child into this forum.

Experiment:An orderly procedure or study carried out with the goal of verifying,refuting or establishing the validity of a hypothesis.

Homosexual parents have long been referred to as social experiments but you only take offence when certain people say it.You and everyone else here us studies and data on social experiments by dozens of organisations in a pathetic attempt to validate a childs welfare in these environments.
Whats the matter,Does your own medicine taste as bit bitter?

Fran.

I pity you. I really do.
I pity anyone who has to twist and turn in order to justify refusing to see other human beings as equal to themselves in every way.

I pity you because, like so many others, you couch your disdain as acceptable because you have convinced yourself that a man who preached non-judgmental acceptance and love ironically told you it was ok to cast verbal stones.

I did not call you a liar - I said you were baring false witness. Your religion calls you a liar. I merely pointed that out.

As for your literal meanings of words well in that case -you are far worse than a liar. You are a person who will deliberately use terms you know will cause insult to some of those who read it and then fall back on semantics to try and absolve yourself.

I pity anyone that is so devoid of empathy and so filled with hate for those who do not conform to how they believe people should be that they seek to cause hurt with intemperate and ill considered language .

I pity you Fran. To live a life consumed by intolerance is abnormal and can cause lasting psychological damage.

Links234 · 18-04-2015 08:07PM

Fran, there really is no low you won't stoop to is there?

Here you are quite blatantly attacking other people's families. And yes, calling them 'experiements' is attacking them, it's implicitly a value judgment and attempts to cast them in a negative light, implying that LGBT people are raising families as some sort of test, that their is some alterior motive at play. Can I ask you to pause for a moment, put a hold on the vitriol and give some thought to the idea that LGBT people are not attempting some grand experiment just to see what happens, but are having children and raising families because they have the same hopes, dreams and desires as everyone else and want to have children for the same reasons as everyone else. Try seeing LGBT people as people for once.

shruikan2553 · 18-04-2015 08:17PM

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-threatened-to-punch-the-baby-out-of-heavily-pregnant-girlfriend-during-attack-31153021.html

At Antrim Crown Court, sitting in Newtownards, Judge Brian Sherard said the attacks carried out by Gary Woods (25) were like "something out of a horror film".
Woods, from Clairhill Park in Coleraine, had earlier pleaded guilty to charges of assault and false imprisonment of his former partner last year.
The father-of-five who has previous convictions for violence against other former partners, had at one time been charged with trying to destroy the unborn baby but that count was not proceeded with by the prosecution.

Ah a mother and a father. How lucky are those children. Thank god they dont have 2 gays taking care of them.

Now common sense would tell me this is an isolated incident and not representative of opposite sex couples but then common sense isn't that common is it so will use it to show that opposite couples shouldn't be allowed to have children.

wp_rathead · 18-04-2015 08:28PM

Nodin wrote: »

Being lent a ton of shite may not, in this instance, be doing anyone any favours.

You post a link that includes a number of fallacious points, including the hilarious "Keep Ideology Out of Schools" that complains "Catholic schools will be expected to teach children about the right to same-sex marriage if the referendum passes."

It also tries to conflate the issue of gay couples adopting with the referendum.

Reminds me of the Tea Party members holding signs "Keep government hands away from my Medicare"

pablomakaveli · 18-04-2015 08:40PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that after multiple explanations people still dont understand this. It's as if they just dont like gay people.

It's probably the No sides best hope at this point. Target the ignorant or uninformed voters with scare tactics and misconceptions. They haven't got much else.

B_Wayne · 18-04-2015 08:42PM

fran17 wrote: »

You called me a liar earlier on so now is as good a time as any.You are a liar Bannasidhe.And shame on you for using your family for a reason to get offended.

Abnormal:To deviate from what is normal or usual.

It is not normal or usual for a child to be brought up by two homosexual men or women.I don't know your son and I don't know why you would bring your child into this forum.

Experiment:An orderly procedure or study carried out with the goal of verifying,refuting or establishing the validity of a hypothesis.

Homosexual parents have long been referred to as social experiments but you only take offence when certain people say it.You and everyone else here us studies and data on social experiments by dozens of organisations in a pathetic attempt to validate a childs welfare in these environments.
Whats the matter,Does your own medicine taste as bit bitter?

Think it's obvious to all that there's only one thing driving you. The ISPCC are concerned about the well being of children. You are not, further more there are very few that agree with you at this stage.

Sonics2k · 18-04-2015 08:43PM

fran17 wrote: »

You called me a liar earlier on so now is as good a time as any.You are a liar Bannasidhe.And shame on you for using your family for a reason to get offended.

Abnormal:To deviate from what is normal or usual.

It is not normal or usual for a child to be brought up by two homosexual men or women.I don't know your son and I don't know why you would bring your child into this forum.

Experiment:An orderly procedure or study carried out with the goal of verifying,refuting or establishing the validity of a hypothesis.

Homosexual parents have long been referred to as social experiments but you only take offence when certain people say it.You and everyone else here us studies and data on social experiments by dozens of organisations in a pathetic attempt to validate a childs welfare in these environments.
Whats the matter,Does your own medicine taste as bit bitter?

Hi Fran,

I've never said this before, but Bannasidhe is my mother.

My name is Finn, and I have spoken out against your attitude quite a bit recently. I have spoken openly and honestly on RTE Radio against a member of the Iona Institute who backed down when she had to admit I am completely normal.
I have spoken publicly in front of TD's, the press and whole groups of strangers.
It all started on boards.ie on the AMA forum if you'd like to have a read.

In fact, I have publicly challenged people to step up to me and tell me how my life and childhood was different.
I'm 30 years old, engaged and have children, I'm extremely well educated with a passion for Space Exploration, Tech and a deep rooted love for Munster Rugby. I can build a PC, but also take a part a washing machine and fix it a fair amount of it.
These are just two of the skills my lesbian mother taught me, just as my cousins mother taught him many things too.

Please Fran, I can except that you do not like gay people and that your religious beliefs tell you this. I can accept these things, it is your right as a human being to hold your beliefs, and never let anyone tell you otherwise.

But here and now. I challenge you. I dare you. How am I different? What exactly did I lose out on?

Your post is filled with anger, disgust and nothing but pure hatred toward another human being based on nothing more than the person she loves. Tell me know of your great moral code, because I've read the Bible and know the New Testament rather well, and I'm fairly sure what you have just said is exactly what Jesus did not want.

S.O · 18-04-2015 08:44PM

Irish gay man Paddy Manning says opposing same sex marriage referendum is not homophobic.

Ave Sodalis · 18-04-2015 08:47PM

Oh well if he says it, it must be true :rolleyes:

I don't think all reasons for voting No are homophobic. However, to deny that any reason is, is just plain ignorance... Just look at Fran and his post history. He may deny it but a huge amount of his post history says otherwise.

fran17 · 18-04-2015 08:50PM

Links234 wrote: »

Fran, there really is no low you won't stoop to is there?

Here you are quite blatantly attacking other people's families. And yes, calling them 'experiements' is attacking them, it's implicitly a value judgment and attempts to cast them in a negative light, implying that LGBT people are raising families as some sort of test, that their is some alterior motive at play. Can I ask you to pause for a moment, put a hold on the vitriol and give some thought to the idea that LGBT people are not attempting some grand experiment just to see what happens, but are having children and raising families because they have the same hopes, dreams and desires as everyone else and want to have children for the same reasons as everyone else. Try seeing LGBT people as people for once.

I think you can very much understand why I will not be engaging with you again in this forum Links234.Your antics alone extinguished any hope I had that people could engage equally in this forum and also that one could expect to receive fairness when wrong was done against them.

B_Wayne · 18-04-2015 08:50PM

Sonic, both you and your mum are legends!

S.O wrote: »

Irish gay man Paddy Manning says opposing same sex marriage referendum is not homophobic.

Paddy regularly refers to the 'Gaystapo' and has previously referred to women who have abortions as 'murderesses'. So I'm comfortable in saying that he's a poor source on pretty much any topic...

fran17 wrote: »

I think you can very much understand why I will not be engaging with you again in this forum Links234.Your antics alone extinguished any hope I had that people could engage equally in this forum and also that one could expect to receive fairness when wrong was done against them.

Yep, very rude of links to ask you to have a little bit of respect for families of others. All you have to do is avoid being vitriolic. It's a struggle, I know!

Sonics2k · 18-04-2015 08:53PM

S.O wrote: »

Irish gay man Paddy Manning says opposing same sex marriage referendum is not homophobic.

You're missing a point here. Paddy is more than entitled to his opinion.
His opinion is mistaken, but still valid.

Ave Sodalis · 18-04-2015 08:54PM

fran17 wrote: »

I think you can very much understand why I will not be engaging with you again in this forum Links234.Your antics alone extinguished any hope I had that people could engage equally in this forum and also that one could expect to receive fairness when wrong was done against them.

Are you talking about others attempts to engage with you there Fran?

One eyed Jack · 18-04-2015 08:55PM

S.O wrote: »

Irish gay man Paddy Manning says opposing same sex marriage referendum is not homophobic.

Paddy needs to pick up a dictionary then because the very definition of a phobia of anything is an irrational fear of it, and being opposed to giving other people in society the same opportunities as everyone else simply on the basis that you are afraid of the consequences of doing so is completely and utterly based upon an irrational fear of that person based upon their sexual orientation being different from your own.

TL:DR - Paddy is entitled to his opinion, but he is demonstrably wrong, either that, or he knows he's wrong and has an ulterior motive for spreading lies, I'm going to assume self-hatred of some sort, which is rather unfortunate for him.

Marriage redefinition and Childrens rights

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