Marriage redefinition and Childrens rights

Zubeneschamali

S.O wrote: »

if I don,t listen to those voices who have experienced same sex households who do I listen to ?

Me.

Everyone should listen to me.

fran17

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You called my family abnormal.
You said my son has psychological damage.
You called my family an experiment.

That goes beyond uncivil - that is obnoxious in the extreme.

You called me a liar earlier on so now is as good a time as any.You are a liar Bannasidhe.And shame on you for using your family for a reason to get offended.

Abnormal:To deviate from what is normal or usual.

It is not normal or usual for a child to be brought up by two homosexual men or women.I don't know your son and I don't know why you would bring your child into this forum.

Experiment:An orderly procedure or study carried out with the goal of verifying,refuting or establishing the validity of a hypothesis.

Homosexual parents have long been referred to as social experiments but you only take offence when certain people say it.You and everyone else here us studies and data on social experiments by dozens of organisations in a pathetic attempt to validate a childs welfare in these environments.
Whats the matter,Does your own medicine taste as bit bitter?

mohawk

S.O wrote: »

Views from others raised in same sex households.



http://www.charismanews.com/culture/49185-being-raised-by-2-mothers-ruined-my-life



https://www.familyfirst.org.nz/2013/01/i-was-brought-up-by-two-women/



http://www.bettnet.com/the_real_cost_of_gay_adoption/



http://www.pureintimacy.org/m/my-father%E2%80%99s-closet/

As I read about these cases the stronger my resolve grows that voting no is the right thing to do, if I don,t listen to those voices who have experienced same sex households who do I listen to ?

There are already children being brought up by parents in a same-sex relationship. Voting no will not change this.

A no vote just sends out a message that those children don't deserve the same recognition and protection under the constitution that their friends have.

It is your right to vote no. But voting no to stop kids being raised in a family with two moms or two dads is a waste of time. It already happens and will continue to do so.

If you are really concerned about the welfare of children. Let me point you in the direction of parents who abuse alcohol because that is something that is an actual issue for children.

One eyed Jack

fran17 wrote: »

You called me a liar earlier on so now is as good a time as any.You are a liar Bannasidhe.And shame on you for using your family for a reason to get offended.

Abnormal:To deviate from what is normal or usual.

It is not normal or usual for a child to be brought up by two homosexual men or women.I don't know your son and I don't know why you would bring your child into this forum.

Experiment:An orderly procedure or study carried out with the goal of verifying,refuting or establishing the validity of a hypothesis.

Homosexual parents have long been referred to as social experiments but you only take offence when certain people say it.You and everyone else here us studies and data on social experiments by dozens of organisations in a pathetic attempt to validate a childs welfare in these environments.
Whats the matter,Does your own medicine taste as bit bitter?

fran I've been nothing but respectful to you and yet you still behave in an immature fashion ducking, diving and avoiding anything that even resembles coming close to an attempt at reasonable discussion.

"You started it" is simply childish in the extreme, and for someone who claims to care so much about other people's children, the least you could do is stop behaving like one if you actually want people to believe you're not just here for a wind-up.

You're yet to contribute anything significant to the discussion and when anyone has tried to respectfully engage with you, you avoid answering them, then claim you're being silenced, then come back again with something else you found on the internet (the daily mail fran, come on, who do you think you're kidding with that?), you've already been caught out so many times for lying, and I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you were mistaken or just ill-informed, but you're not, you're just behaving willfully ignorant, purposely trying to mislead people, and then out with the world's smallest violin to claim people are picking on you.

Come on now fran, at this point, the only person convinced by your antics is yourself, you're not even interested in discussion, you just want people to entertain you. I'm done entertaining you at this point tbh.

Bannasidhe

fran17 wrote: »

You called me a liar earlier on so now is as good a time as any.You are a liar Bannasidhe.And shame on you for using your family for a reason to get offended.

Abnormal:To deviate from what is normal or usual.

It is not normal or usual for a child to be brought up by two homosexual men or women.I don't know your son and I don't know why you would bring your child into this forum.

Experiment:An orderly procedure or study carried out with the goal of verifying,refuting or establishing the validity of a hypothesis.

Homosexual parents have long been referred to as social experiments but you only take offence when certain people say it.You and everyone else here us studies and data on social experiments by dozens of organisations in a pathetic attempt to validate a childs welfare in these environments.
Whats the matter,Does your own medicine taste as bit bitter?

Fran.

I pity you. I really do.
I pity anyone who has to twist and turn in order to justify refusing to see other human beings as equal to themselves in every way.

I pity you because, like so many others, you couch your disdain as acceptable because you have convinced yourself that a man who preached non-judgmental acceptance and love ironically told you it was ok to cast verbal stones.

I did not call you a liar - I said you were baring false witness. Your religion calls you a liar. I merely pointed that out.

As for your literal meanings of words well in that case -you are far worse than a liar. You are a person who will deliberately use terms you know will cause insult to some of those who read it and then fall back on semantics to try and absolve yourself.

I pity anyone that is so devoid of empathy and so filled with hate for those who do not conform to how they believe people should be that they seek to cause hurt with intemperate and ill considered language .

I pity you Fran. To live a life consumed by intolerance is abnormal and can cause lasting psychological damage.

Links234

Fran, there really is no low you won't stoop to is there?

Here you are quite blatantly attacking other people's families. And yes, calling them 'experiements' is attacking them, it's implicitly a value judgment and attempts to cast them in a negative light, implying that LGBT people are raising families as some sort of test, that their is some alterior motive at play. Can I ask you to pause for a moment, put a hold on the vitriol and give some thought to the idea that LGBT people are not attempting some grand experiment just to see what happens, but are having children and raising families because they have the same hopes, dreams and desires as everyone else and want to have children for the same reasons as everyone else. Try seeing LGBT people as people for once.

shruikan2553

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-threatened-to-punch-the-baby-out-of-heavily-pregnant-girlfriend-during-attack-31153021.html

At Antrim Crown Court, sitting in Newtownards, Judge Brian Sherard said the attacks carried out by Gary Woods (25) were like "something out of a horror film".
Woods, from Clairhill Park in Coleraine, had earlier pleaded guilty to charges of assault and false imprisonment of his former partner last year.
The father-of-five who has previous convictions for violence against other former partners, had at one time been charged with trying to destroy the unborn baby but that count was not proceeded with by the prosecution.

Ah a mother and a father. How lucky are those children. Thank god they dont have 2 gays taking care of them.

Now common sense would tell me this is an isolated incident and not representative of opposite sex couples but then common sense isn't that common is it so will use it to show that opposite couples shouldn't be allowed to have children.

wp_rathead

Nodin wrote: »

Being lent a ton of shite may not, in this instance, be doing anyone any favours.

You post a link that includes a number of fallacious points, including the hilarious "Keep Ideology Out of Schools" that complains "Catholic schools will be expected to teach children about the right to same-sex marriage if the referendum passes."

It also tries to conflate the issue of gay couples adopting with the referendum.

Reminds me of the Tea Party members holding signs "Keep government hands away from my Medicare"

pablomakaveli

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that after multiple explanations people still dont understand this. It's as if they just dont like gay people.

It's probably the No sides best hope at this point. Target the ignorant or uninformed voters with scare tactics and misconceptions. They haven't got much else.

B_Wayne

fran17 wrote: »

You called me a liar earlier on so now is as good a time as any.You are a liar Bannasidhe.And shame on you for using your family for a reason to get offended.

Abnormal:To deviate from what is normal or usual.

It is not normal or usual for a child to be brought up by two homosexual men or women.I don't know your son and I don't know why you would bring your child into this forum.

Experiment:An orderly procedure or study carried out with the goal of verifying,refuting or establishing the validity of a hypothesis.

Homosexual parents have long been referred to as social experiments but you only take offence when certain people say it.You and everyone else here us studies and data on social experiments by dozens of organisations in a pathetic attempt to validate a childs welfare in these environments.
Whats the matter,Does your own medicine taste as bit bitter?

Think it's obvious to all that there's only one thing driving you. The ISPCC are concerned about the well being of children. You are not, further more there are very few that agree with you at this stage.

Sonics2k

fran17 wrote: »

You called me a liar earlier on so now is as good a time as any.You are a liar Bannasidhe.And shame on you for using your family for a reason to get offended.

Abnormal:To deviate from what is normal or usual.

It is not normal or usual for a child to be brought up by two homosexual men or women.I don't know your son and I don't know why you would bring your child into this forum.

Experiment:An orderly procedure or study carried out with the goal of verifying,refuting or establishing the validity of a hypothesis.

Homosexual parents have long been referred to as social experiments but you only take offence when certain people say it.You and everyone else here us studies and data on social experiments by dozens of organisations in a pathetic attempt to validate a childs welfare in these environments.
Whats the matter,Does your own medicine taste as bit bitter?

Hi Fran,

I've never said this before, but Bannasidhe is my mother.

My name is Finn, and I have spoken out against your attitude quite a bit recently. I have spoken openly and honestly on RTE Radio against a member of the Iona Institute who backed down when she had to admit I am completely normal.
I have spoken publicly in front of TD's, the press and whole groups of strangers.
It all started on boards.ie on the AMA forum if you'd like to have a read.

In fact, I have publicly challenged people to step up to me and tell me how my life and childhood was different.
I'm 30 years old, engaged and have children, I'm extremely well educated with a passion for Space Exploration, Tech and a deep rooted love for Munster Rugby. I can build a PC, but also take a part a washing machine and fix it a fair amount of it.
These are just two of the skills my lesbian mother taught me, just as my cousins mother taught him many things too.

Please Fran, I can except that you do not like gay people and that your religious beliefs tell you this. I can accept these things, it is your right as a human being to hold your beliefs, and never let anyone tell you otherwise.

But here and now. I challenge you. I dare you. How am I different? What exactly did I lose out on?

Your post is filled with anger, disgust and nothing but pure hatred toward another human being based on nothing more than the person she loves. Tell me know of your great moral code, because I've read the Bible and know the New Testament rather well, and I'm fairly sure what you have just said is exactly what Jesus did not want.

S.O

Irish gay man Paddy Manning says opposing same sex marriage referendum is not homophobic.

Ave Sodalis

Oh well if he says it, it must be true :rolleyes:

I don't think all reasons for voting No are homophobic. However, to deny that any reason is, is just plain ignorance... Just look at Fran and his post history. He may deny it but a huge amount of his post history says otherwise.

fran17

Links234 wrote: »

Fran, there really is no low you won't stoop to is there?

Here you are quite blatantly attacking other people's families. And yes, calling them 'experiements' is attacking them, it's implicitly a value judgment and attempts to cast them in a negative light, implying that LGBT people are raising families as some sort of test, that their is some alterior motive at play. Can I ask you to pause for a moment, put a hold on the vitriol and give some thought to the idea that LGBT people are not attempting some grand experiment just to see what happens, but are having children and raising families because they have the same hopes, dreams and desires as everyone else and want to have children for the same reasons as everyone else. Try seeing LGBT people as people for once.

I think you can very much understand why I will not be engaging with you again in this forum Links234.Your antics alone extinguished any hope I had that people could engage equally in this forum and also that one could expect to receive fairness when wrong was done against them.

B_Wayne

Sonic, both you and your mum are legends!

S.O wrote: »

Irish gay man Paddy Manning says opposing same sex marriage referendum is not homophobic.

Paddy regularly refers to the 'Gaystapo' and has previously referred to women who have abortions as 'murderesses'. So I'm comfortable in saying that he's a poor source on pretty much any topic...

fran17 wrote: »

I think you can very much understand why I will not be engaging with you again in this forum Links234.Your antics alone extinguished any hope I had that people could engage equally in this forum and also that one could expect to receive fairness when wrong was done against them.

Yep, very rude of links to ask you to have a little bit of respect for families of others. All you have to do is avoid being vitriolic. It's a struggle, I know!

Sonics2k

S.O wrote: »

Irish gay man Paddy Manning says opposing same sex marriage referendum is not homophobic.

You're missing a point here. Paddy is more than entitled to his opinion.
His opinion is mistaken, but still valid.

Ave Sodalis

fran17 wrote: »

I think you can very much understand why I will not be engaging with you again in this forum Links234.Your antics alone extinguished any hope I had that people could engage equally in this forum and also that one could expect to receive fairness when wrong was done against them.

Are you talking about others attempts to engage with you there Fran?

One eyed Jack

S.O wrote: »

Irish gay man Paddy Manning says opposing same sex marriage referendum is not homophobic.

Paddy needs to pick up a dictionary then because the very definition of a phobia of anything is an irrational fear of it, and being opposed to giving other people in society the same opportunities as everyone else simply on the basis that you are afraid of the consequences of doing so is completely and utterly based upon an irrational fear of that person based upon their sexual orientation being different from your own.

TL:DR - Paddy is entitled to his opinion, but he is demonstrably wrong, either that, or he knows he's wrong and has an ulterior motive for spreading lies, I'm going to assume self-hatred of some sort, which is rather unfortunate for him.

Kiwi in IE

S.O wrote: »

Irish gay man Paddy Manning says opposing same sex marriage referendum is not homophobic.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/books/women-against-the-vote-female-anti-suffragism-in-britain/400299.article

B_Wayne

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/books/women-against-the-vote-female-anti-suffragism-in-britain/400299.article

I think we can be confident in saying that not allowing women to vote is not misogynistic. Thank Christ for Paddy putting things in perspective!

osarusan

Sonics2k wrote: »

Hi Fran,

I've never said this before, but Bannasidhe is my mother.

My name is Finn, and I have spoken out against your attitude quite a bit recently. I have spoken openly and honestly on RTE Radio against a member of the Iona Institute who backed down when she had to admit I am completely normal.
I have spoken publicly in front of TD's, the press and whole groups of strangers.
It all started on boards.ie on the AMA forum if you'd like to have a read.

In fact, I have publicly challenged people to step up to me and tell me how my life and childhood was different.
I'm 30 years old, engaged and have children, I'm extremely well educated with a passion for Space Exploration, Tech and a deep rooted love for Munster Rugby. I can build a PC, but also take a part a washing machine and fix it a fair amount of it.
These are just two of the skills my lesbian mother taught me, just as my cousins mother taught him many things too.

Please Fran, I can except that you do not like gay people and that your religious beliefs tell you this. I can accept these things, it is your right as a human being to hold your beliefs, and never let anyone tell you otherwise.

But here and now. I challenge you. I dare you. How am I different? What exactly did I lose out on?

Your post is filled with anger, disgust and nothing but pure hatred toward another human being based on nothing more than the person she loves. Tell me know of your great moral code, because I've read the Bible and know the New Testament rather well, and I'm fairly sure what you have just said is exactly what Jesus did not want.

Thank you Finn, this was a beautiful, personal, honest post that treated Fran with more courtesy than they deserve.

Hopefully, Fran will have the maturity and decency to respond.

Congratulations on all your hard work campaigning.

G_R

sup_dude wrote: »

Are you talking about others attempts to engage with you there Fran?

Mod note

fran17 has been banned, so will be unable to respond to this or any other post.

Please don't reply to this post.

Links234

fran17 wrote: »

I think you can very much understand why I will not be engaging with you again in this forum Links234.Your antics alone extinguished any hope I had that people could engage equally in this forum and also that one could expect to receive fairness when wrong was done against them.

My antics? I've done nothing but tried to have honest debate with you, something you're not too fond of it seems. But don't worry Fran, I don't expect you to engage with me at all, you'd just ignore any points I made anyway. Although it's serious irony of ironies for you to lament that people supposedly can't engage in discussion, considering you follow a pretty set pattern. You'll appear in a thread and post some ignorant, nasty or otherwise utterly wrong nonsense against LGBT folks, then when you're called on it, presented with anything to the contrary, you act aggrevied and refuse to answer any question put to you. Then you'll whine about being persecuted and/or silenced, claim some jumped-up slights and 'insults' from posters who try to engage with you in debate and discussion, and then disappear only to come back later and post the same kinda crap again, rinse and repeat.

You don't engage anyone here Fran, so don't pretend like you do. If you did, if you have any shred of interest in discourse, you'd respond to Sonics2k's post. Go on, I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised if you do, but really we just expect you to throw a strop and ignore everything that's put to you. Just like you ignored my call for you to try see LGBT people as your fellow human beings for 2 minutes.

Edit: Damn

Bridge93

It's weird how those who are most religious appear to have the least 'Christian' morals of all on this matter. The church teaches all that love thy neighbour and caring and compassion stuff yet are willing to oppress a minority group for no apparent reason other than it's supposedly 'wrong' or 'unnatural'.

Cold War Kid

They'd have considered Jesus a total "liberal, PC, bleeding heart hippy".

One eyed Jack

Bridge93 wrote: »

It's weird how those who are claim to be most religious appear to have the least 'Christian' morals of all on this matter. The church teaches all that love thy neighbour and caring and compassion stuff yet are willing to oppress a minority group for no apparent reason other than it's supposedly 'wrong' or 'unnatural'.

FYP there Bridge, and on that note, I would urge people to consider the fact that just because those people who are opposed to marriage equality have either left the discussion of their own volition, or have been made to leave the discussion because they were unwilling to engage in the first place, I would hope that the complacency rot doesn't set in among the yes campaign again.

I've seen this complacency in action with people I understood were friends of mine who spoke all the right words about being young, atheist, liberal, pro-lgbt and all the rest of it, and it was my own fault that I became complacent enough to believe that when we were having a conversation about homosexuality and so on, I happened to mention that I'd played tonsil tennis with a couple of guys when I was younger. Their reactions were fairly telling. Suddenly - it was ok for them to be pro-lgbt, but they had made complacent presumptions about me too that I was reserved and conservative and butter wouldn't melt in my mouth (in fairness I'm normally dressed like a JW with the white shirt, navy tie and black trousers ).

They couldn't hide their distaste upon suddenly being presented with this new information which they couldn't process as it didn't fit in with their preconceptions. Their immediate reaction was to recoil in horror and almost synchronously pronounce "ew!". The friendship really didn't last much longer after that unfortunately. They weren't bad people, they just hadn't given much thought to what they were saying or supporting, and they liked to assume that nobody else could be as liberal and opinionated and all the rest of it as they were.

I've seen it in this thread alone where people have even taken each other up wrong where they both support marriage equality, but due to their preconceived ideas about other people, it's caused miscommunication and people taking each other up wrong and attacking other people (not talking about me, I've thicker skin than an elephant, because I've had to grow it due to constant abuse when I didn't fit with people's preconceived ideas - they don't bloody like it!), but I've seen people who are voting yes in this referendum try to give their opinion and being taken up wrong, and then they leave the discussion.

I understand that naturally this is an issue that people are going to take personally, and they're going to jump to conclusions and make snap judgments about people, but I would urge those people that before they react, before they retaliate, give the other person a chance at least to explain themselves. Put yourself in their shoes and try and imagine how you would feel if someone were to jump down your throat when you tried to express your thoughts. I understand that of course it's difficult sometimes, but if you're looking for people to understand you, the onus is upon you to show other people understanding first. If upon further discussion it becomes clear that they are diametrically opposed to your position, then instead of abusing them, just walk away, because after that point you're just wasting your time and you're only going to upset yourself even further.

indy_man

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Instead of drive by link posting why don't you tell us in your own words?

OK, I have many views lending to a no vote but the main one is that every child is entitled to a mothers love. Even better is the love of both a mother and a father.

shruikan2553

indy_man wrote: »

OK, I have many views lending to a no vote but the main one is that every child is entitled to a mothers love. Even better is the love of both a mother and a father.

How will voting no prevent same sex couples raising children?

Zaph

indy_man wrote: »

OK, I have many views lending to a no vote but the main one is that every child is entitled to a mothers love. Even better is the love of both a mother and a father.

So are you suggesting that the love of two mothers is the best of all?

Bridge93

indy_man wrote: »

OK, I have many views lending to a no vote but the main one is that every child is entitled to a mothers love. Even better is the love of both a mother and a father.

And every person isn't entitled to have their relationship treated equally in the eyes of the State? Bearing in mind as has been said a million times at this stage that gay couples can already raise children and this referendum will not change this either way. And has nothing to do with this referendum.