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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

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    #182
    Cake Man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,824 ✭✭✭Cake Man


    Great write up Giveitfong. Going by the Twitter updates and updates from Tomas McCarthy on WLR (at 4am time in Sydney no less!) those missed goal chances were a killer. Think Eddie Meaney hit the post on his effort, definately agree if we had put even one of those away when we were on top we would have gone on to win. We seemed to be the better team for the most part so it was a real sickener to throw it away.

    Still, the positives are that we created the goal chances and hopefully a bit more composure we can put those chances away in the next game. Plenty of lads there hurling inter county minor for the first time gave very good accounts of themselves. O'Sullivan, Darragh Lyons and Jordan Henley seemed to have done well.

    Hopefully it'll come right v Limerick in the playoff, they were convincingly beaten by Cork so we're not out yet. Hard luck lads, decent effort.


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    #183
    TyrionPower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭TyrionPower


    Disappointed we lost, but Isnt it great that we are competitive year after year at minor level now?


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    #184
    stumblingblock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭stumblingblock


    TyrionPower wrote: »
    Disappointed we lost, but Isnt it great that we are competitive year after year at minor level now?

    Yep. Even looking at the Tipp page there seems to be acknowledgement that the better team lost! Albeit they took their chances we didn't and thats ultimately what it boils down to


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    #185
    TyrionPower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭TyrionPower


    stumblingblock wrote: »
    Yep. Even looking at the Tipp page there seems to be acknowledgement that the better team lost! Albeit they took their chances we didn't and thats ultimately what it boils down to

    If we tighten up on giving away frees we will be a match for anyone.

    Think back 10-15 years ago, can you imagine if we travelled to Thurles, were the better team and lost by a point like last night... we would have been devastated at that missed oppurtunity of beating a traditional county at minor level.. from players to the supporters, it would probably derail our season.

    Now after the initial dissapointment we can almost immediately say ok, we move on to the next one, we will have a say in this yet.

    We fear no-body and the mentality of the county has changed.

    Also we are consistently preparing minor teams to a very high level...

    Waterford are here to stay


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    #186
    blueflame
    Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭blueflame


    Great effort, good display and unfortunate result.

    While all played well thought Prunty at full back was excellent and really led by example. Couple of unfortunate errors, and not helped by a referee who was extremely inconsistent. Not saying he favored either side as some of his decisions were hard to fathom at times but there were at least two major calls that went against Waterford, particularly with about 4 minutes to play when the Waterford player blew the Tipp half back over the side line to win the ball with a fair shoulder only to be blown up for a what the ref indicated was a shoulder charge into the chest. The Tipp lad didn't complain and in fact hopped up off the ground straight away, but such was the ferocity of the hit, had it been in the chest as indicated by the ref, the Tipp lad would most certainly have been at least winded or injured. At this stage of the game Waterford were 1 point down and had won possession in a threatening position, instead Tipp drove the free down field scored a point and put daylight between the two sides. On such small margins games like this turn. Maybe it was the tinted glasses but i just thought ref was dreadful all night.

    Have to ask again what story was with score board as once again coming into the last few minutes of a game, that was this tight and had several injuries the time clock went back to zero, with about 5 minutes to play. If memory serves me right this is not the first time it this has happened in Thurles at a minor game.

    As regards next game, I said yesterday and will say again feel there is nothing between the five sides on any given night. Limerick will provide a very stern test on their home ground, but i believe this very talented and well prepared side can overcome that. One thing is certain we have shown again we can compete with the best and we have nothing to fear.


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    #187
    Waternut
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭Waternut


    While not acknowledged as Waterfords most vintage crop I was still disappointed with the result. The game was there for the tsking.I know it's harsh but I was disappointed with Hogans display, he has so much to offer and is potentially one of the best young forwards to come out of Waterford for a long time. Bonuses was definitely Prunty and D Lyons performances, two potentially outstanding talents and possibly a solution to our full back woes for the last ten or twelve years. Also really impressed with O'Sullivan, a bullish forward well able to win ball and take his score, no messing about with him. I do have some concerns with the Waterford bench going forward. Apart from Murray it may be a bit light.


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    #188
    TyrionPower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭TyrionPower


    Waternut wrote: »
    While not acknowledged as Waterfords most vintage crop I was still disappointed with the result. The game was there for the tsking.I know it's harsh but I was disappointed with Hogans display, he has so much to offer and is potentially one of the best young forwards to come out of Waterford for a long time. Bonuses was definitely Prunty and D Lyons performances, two potentially outstanding talents and possibly a solution to our full back woes for the last ten or twelve years. Also really impressed with O'Sullivan, a bullish forward well able to win ball and take his score, no messing about with him. I do have some concerns with the Waterford bench going forward. Apart from Murray it may be a bit light.


    Is Murray (Cappoquin) playing with any club this year?


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    #189
    MUFC91CS
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭MUFC91CS


    TyrionPower wrote: »
    Is Murray (Cappoquin) playing with any club this year?

    AFAIK the two Murrays joined Blackrock in Cork.


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    #190
    TyrionPower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭TyrionPower


    MUFC91CS wrote: »
    AFAIK the two Murrays joined Blackrock in Cork.

    ya but not the lad on the minor team, I thought undergae players couldnt move like that in Waterford anymore - unless they moved to a new address


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    #191
    Orizio
    Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    MUFC91CS wrote: »
    AFAIK the two Murrays joined Blackrock in Cork.

    When and why was this?


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    #192
    TyrionPower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭TyrionPower


    Orizio wrote: »
    When and why was this?

    Big trouble in Cappoquin after all their success - in the previous thread about 3/4 weeks ago


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    #193
    mickotallow
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭mickotallow


    Anyone know if we are going to have the same situation with the minors as last year before the all-Ireland semi final, where the Waterford minors cannot play with their clubs? The limerick game is now fixed for May 6th, the Wednesday between the first two rounds of senior hurling championship. It's an absolute disgrace that after this happened last year the county board have allowed the same situation to be a factor when setting club fixtures. For small clubs like ourselves we cannot afford to play senior championship matches without two of our minors let alone two who are Waterford Minors.


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    #194
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    Five times in the days before the backdoor we lost at Minor level by a point - twice after replays. I think I'd have opened a vein if there wasn't a second chance after last night.


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    #195
    HatchetMan7
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭HatchetMan7


    Just goes to show how much effort is going into minor nowadays in Waterford where you have players like Austin Gleeson and Shane Bennett able to go straight from minor level on to senior starting 15 and make a big contribution. They seem to be mentally and physically stronger nowadays at a much younger age. We look really strong this year at U21 level, definitely good enough to go all the way.


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    #196
    stumblingblock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭stumblingblock


    HatchetMan7 wrote: »
    Just goes to show how much effort is going into minor nowadays in Waterford where you have players like Austin Gleeson and Shane Bennett able to go straight from minor level on to senior starting 15 and make a big contribution. They seem to be mentally and physically stronger nowadays at a much younger age. We look really strong this year at U21 level, definitely good enough to go all the way.


    Sorry but Ive given up hope on u21 level a long time ago. Bar 09’ when we got to a Munster final weve been absolutely abysmal at this level for the guts of 20 years. Last year was the final straw for me, we supposedly had our best u21 team for many years and were up against a very poor Cork side (a county who we have NEVER beaten at this level). But they came down to Walsh Park and made a holy show of us even after going a man down. It was an atrocious result and performance to say the least. I believe there is no end to the amount of work being put into getting the u21s right this year with Tony Browne and John Mullane on board but in reality I don’t see whats changed. The vast majority of the players involved on the current training panel and challenge games won’t be involved for the championship because the lads on the senior panel will be drafted back. A waste of time and resources in my opinion. Lets just say I’m not holding my breath that we’ll do anything significant this year either.


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    #197
    Giveitfong
    Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Giveitfong


    stumblingblock wrote: »
    Last year was the final straw for me, we supposedly had our best u21 team for many years and were up against a very poor Cork side (a county who we have NEVER beaten at this level).

    Waterford beat Cork in Walsh Park in the Munster Under 21 semi-final in 1992 on their way to winning the All-Ireland title.

    However, I agree with your general argument. Waterford have under 21 teams most years which, on paper, are capable of competing for the Munster title but rarely deliver. Last year was the worst ever, as Clare showed in the Munster final just how weak that Cork team was. The County Board executive should be intervening to remedy this situation but their performance over the years has been even worse than the Under 21s.


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    #198
    archieknox
    Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭archieknox


    Giveitfong wrote: »
    Waterford beat Cork in Walsh Park in the Munster Under 21 semi-final in 1992 on their way to winning the All-Ireland title.

    However, I agree with your general argument. Waterford have under 21 teams most years which, on paper, are capable of competing for the Munster title but rarely deliver. Last year was the worst ever, as Clare showed in the Munster final just how weak that Cork team was. The County Board executive should be intervening to remedy this situation but their performance over the years has been even worse than the Under 21s.

    How can it be rectified in the county though? For instance probably 12 or more of the u21 squad are with the senior set up and won't be released anytime soon. Then you have club championship 3 weeks away so clubs will want their players for the weeks leading up to that so it isn't exactly easy planning. I agree the challenge games with the senior club sides will not have unearthed too many options so we'll still be relying on the senior players and that will be at the discretion of Derek McGrath. Not an easy job for the u21 management team to get right to be fair.


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    #199
    HatchetMan7
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭HatchetMan7


    There is a few differences this year though. Firstly the senior team is playing very well at the moment and confidence is high which could not be said last year. Some of our best performers on the senior team are under 21. If the likes of Tadhg de Burca, Austin Gleeson, Shane and Stephan Bennett, Colin Dunford and Tom Devine can't transfer that form to the U21 team then that's the fault of the players themselves or at least a big percentage of the blame. I don't think not playing enough as a group can be a good enough excuse as other counties are in the same boat. The other difference this year is that these players seem to be mentally and physically in better shape than last year. I may well be wrong but i think this U21 team will win something this year. Just a gut feeling i have (Had the same feeling about the minor team in 2013.)


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    #200
    stumblingblock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭stumblingblock


    HatchetMan7 wrote: »
    There is a few differences this year though. Firstly the senior team is playing very well at the moment and confidence is high which could not be said last year. Some of our best performers on the senior team are under 21. If the likes of Tadhg de Burca, Austin Gleeson, Shane and Stephan Bennett, Colin Dunford and Tom Devine can't transfer that form to the U21 team then that's the fault of the players themselves or at least a big percentage of the blame. I don't think not playing enough as a group can be a good enough excuse as other counties are in the same boat. The other difference this year is that these players seem to be mentally and physically in better shape than last year. I may well be wrong but i think this U21 team will win something this year. Just a gut feeling i have (Had the same feeling about the minor team in 2013.)

    I’ll admit this year is the year to do something at this grade if we ever are. I think last year with Clare being so strong we wouldnt have beaten them in Ennis anyway had we beaten Cork like we should have.. This year Tipp and Limerick the other side of the draw. Limerick obviously will be good weve seen them at minor the past 2 years and Tipp won the All Ireland minor 3 years ago. We have a better side than Cork on paper but as weve seen last year that counts for nothing. Most of that outstanding Clare team are now overage bar Shane O’Donnell and Bobby Duggan. we have beaten Clare at minor the last 3 years in a row so the law of averages should show we should be beating them at u21 this year, however given how we have showed in this grade in recent times I wouldn’t be confident about beating anyone. But to be honest as long as the u21 lads are making progress with the seniors I wont be losing too much sleep about this grade.


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    #201
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    stumblingblock wrote: »
    Sorry but Ive given up hope on u21 level a long time ago. Bar 09’ when we got to a Munster final weve been absolutely abysmal at this level for the guts of 20 years. Last year was the final straw for me, we supposedly had our best u21 team for many years and were up against a very poor Cork side (a county who we have NEVER beaten at this level). But they came down to Walsh Park and made a holy show of us even after going a man down. It was an atrocious result and performance to say the least. I believe there is no end to the amount of work being put into getting the u21s right this year with Tony Browne and John Mullane on board but in reality I don’t see whats changed. The vast majority of the players involved on the current training panel and challenge games won’t be involved for the championship because the lads on the senior panel will be drafted back. A waste of time and resources in my opinion. Lets just say I’m not holding my breath that we’ll do anything significant this year either.

    I don't think I've ever been as crushed by a result as I was by that one. The satisfaction you get from a result is a function of expectations, and normally I manage to dampen down the expectations, but having given the eventual champions the previous year the best challenge they got and buoyed up as we were by landing the Minor All-Ireland, I didn't think it was unreasonable to expect them to maximise home advantage. Instead I saw as disastrous a performance as you could imagine. The gap between our competitiveness at Minor and U-21 level is a complete mystery to me. Maybe Mullane and Browne can bridge that gap, but like you I won't be letting my expectations get ahead of me this time around.


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    #202
    Cake Man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,824 ✭✭✭Cake Man


    Hmm I'm not too sure how I feel about this, too many times in the last few years I've fallen into the trap of having high hopes of our u21's doing something only to be horribly let down. Cork last year was shocking but I remember being taken apart in Ennis in 2012 when we supposedly had a serious team (the same minor winning munster team from 09).
    But I'm a sucker for punishment and will quietly say I think this years team can do something*
    There are plenty of lads in good form that are u21 so we just don't have any more excuses.


    (*winning at least one game would probably be considered as "doing something" considering we actually haven't won a single game at this level in 6 YEARS!)


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    #203
    archieknox
    Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭archieknox


    Thinks working out nicely for the league semi final with Tipp missing 3 of their starting 15 now. There's a real opportunity to win this now,tight pitch,suspension and injuries and confidence high in the camp we'll have nothing to fear going into it.


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    #204
    KevIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 39,507 ✭✭✭✭KevIRL


    Well done Kerry!


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    #205
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,902 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    archieknox wrote: »
    Thinks working out nicely for the league semi final with Tipp missing 3 of their starting 15 now. There's a real opportunity to win this now,tight pitch,suspension and injuries and confidence high in the camp we'll have nothing to fear going into it.

    hopefully we give them a game at least but do we really want to win and play cork so early before the championship ???. Would laugh if it was a Dublin vs Waterford final.

    On the Championship front if we lose to cork we will play our all ireland round 1 qualifer on sat 4th July (clashing with UB40 playing Waterford City) and if we beat Cork we will play the munster final on 12th July


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    #206
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    hopefully we give them a game at least but do we really want to win and play cork so early before the championship ???. Would laugh if it was a Dublin vs Waterford final.

    On the Championship front if we lose to cork we will play our all ireland round 1 qualifer on sat 4th July (clashing with UB40 playing Waterford City) and if we beat Cork we will play the munster final on 12th July

    I honestly rate the waterford players on average as good as if not better than the cork team (outside of pat Horgan and paudi Sullivan) I'm not trying to wind up people or anything...but if waterford went out and went toe to toe with cork they could beat them....that tipp team are a different prospect though....some serious talent there!!


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    #207
    suitcasepink
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,841 Mod ✭✭✭✭suitcasepink


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    hopefully we give them a game at least but do we really want to win and play cork so early before the championship ???. Would laugh if it was a Dublin vs Waterford final.

    On the Championship front if we lose to cork we will play our all ireland round 1 qualifer on sat 4th July (clashing with UB40 playing Waterford City) and if we beat Cork we will play the munster final on 12th July

    You'd know thats all that is on Dereks mind anyway


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    #208
    Mountainlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    deise_girl wrote: »
    You'd know thats all that is on Dereks mind anyway

    Red red winnnnneeee.

    I think it will be added motivation for the lads, they can all go to the gig if they beat Cork


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    #209
    Ropaire
    Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭Ropaire


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    I honestly rate the waterford players on average as good as if not better than the cork team (outside of pat Horgan and paudi Sullivan) I'm not trying to wind up people or anything...but if waterford went out and went toe to toe with cork they could beat them....that tipp team are a different prospect though....some serious talent there!!

    Ya I'd agree, we took them apart in the first game last year for fifty minutes and should have kept attacking. We were well able for them then but hamstrung ourselves going overly negative. Our fifteen this year are prob stronger than last year too, have Cork improved much since?


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    #210
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    Cork will need the hurling equivalent of a UB40 by the time we're finished with them.

    9971f40f6ad8ac1ce54d96b08b3cc0dd2d2650a87c42cb6a7913fe3ffd153ef0.jpg


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    #211
    stumblingblock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭stumblingblock


    Weldone to kerry hurlers on being promoted to 1b. Antrim deserve to go down i remember thinking after the waterford game what good is skin ryan been doing with them. Hes been travelling 5 or 600k trips up and down 3 or 4 times a week the past 4 years but they actually seem to have regressed under his reign. He wont pick some of their best players either. Dont how hes getting away with it. even his interviews he seems to admit he dosent know what hes doing. Time to give skin his p45 i think


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