When would you turn back and confront scumbags?

Mint Aero · 09-03-2015 4:57pm

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Ah yeah, im just being a pr##k about the language to as there might be a bit of inciting going on in the thread. And chances are it usually is minors who are the most intimidating, I suppose id just urge to think twice and make sure they are overage (can you testify in court that you had concrete evidence that they weren't minors), otherwise Itd be a guard or prosecutor picking apart every little bit of your words... ya know the rest.

The judicial system is a joke in this country and it's the very last thing on my mind in such circumstances. Look what they did to poor Padraig Nally for example.

Mint Aero · 09-03-2015 5:12pm

endacl wrote: »

Could have done what you would have done anyway? Kept walking?

and what if everyone does that? What if he keeps walking and your granny is the next person to pass these scumsh*ts and they threaten her too? That all cool with you?

Nah, don't think so. It's good to see from this thread that there's quite a few decent people out there happy to put manners on these low lifes. Make them think twice about their scumbag behaviour.

punisher5112 · 09-03-2015 5:39pm

I am annoyed seeing some people stick up for absolute scum.

If a 10 or 12 year old comes at me with a knife you would swear some would want you to sit down get stabbed and then ask is the scum bag ok all the while bleeding to death.

Irish laws are so so out dated the courts are a joke and judges who think they are god.

The world has become a seriously dangerous place.

endacl · 09-03-2015 6:58pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

The world has become a seriously dangerous place.

It really hasn't. In general terms, it's never been safer. In specific terms, you just read about it more. Take this thread, for example.

10-03-2015 8:23am

endacl wrote: »

It really hasn't. In general terms, it's never been safer. In specific terms, you just read about it more. Take this thread, for example.

outside of this thread you're right actually. I saw a book in hodges in figs by some really famous Australian writer who shows how that's a fact.
unfortunately good news makes for bad press sales. but yes apparently even with all that middle east crack etc, it's safer, mad eh!

evolving_doors · 10-03-2015 8:25am

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I've been hassled by a group of kids on the luas. Little scumbags pushing up against me, deliberately standing on my feet, pushing into me and knocking me back, laughing and makimg very inappropriate remarks. They were about 14, 4 of them. One of me, 26.

Had one of them laid a hand on me, Id have had no problem punching him in the face, minor or not.

Fair enough, once you know what the upshot of a conviction is.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 10-03-2015 8:28am

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Fair enough, once you know what the upshot of a conviction is.

Self defence is self defence. Being made feel threathened and unsafe is the same no matter how old someone is. They're in a group, I'm by myself. You can be sure, if they're manhandling me, they'll be punched in the face - and I'll be the one pressing charges/calling the guards.

evolving_doors · 10-03-2015 8:31am

Mint Aero wrote: »

The judicial system is a joke in this country and it's the very last thing on my mind in such circumstances. Look what they did to poor Padraig Nally for example.

As I said the assault of a minor is a different thing.... fair enough in your case they MIGHT have been teenagers that were 19... but look at the way the thread has gone again... some guy thinks he's in the right to punch a 14 year old in the face because someone 'lays a hand on him first'.
He thinks the 'first to engage' defence also applies equally with minors.

Greenmachine · 10-03-2015 8:35am

Depends how many there are. Year ago was walking down moore street in the evening when 8-10 lad start throwing old fruit at myself and a friend. he just made a quick exit. If it had been just one he would have had it shoved down his throat.

Sand · 10-03-2015 8:37am

Gebgbegb wrote: »

As I said the assault of a minor is a different thing.... fair enough in your case they MIGHT have been teenagers that were 19... but look at the way the thread has gone again... some guy thinks he's in the right to punch a 14 year old in the face because someone 'lays a hand on him first'.
He thinks the 'first to engage' defence also applies equally with minors.

Can you cite a case or legal ruling that shows it doesn't? There is to my knowledge no magic cutoff point where if someone attacks you that you can defend yourself if they are 16, but you're going to jail if they are 15.

the evasion_kid · 10-03-2015 9:00am

Parked in an industrial estate in Dublin yesterday I witnessed an oldish guy park his van and go into the business beside the one I was parked in,he was only in the doors when a car with three little scrotes pulled up and one of them jumped in the front of his van and took his jacket,as they were taking off I pulled my van across the road effectively blocking them,naturally as rats do they abandoned ship.

10-03-2015 9:09am

the evasion_kid wrote: »

Parked in an industrial estate in Dublin yesterday I witnessed an oldish guy park his van and go into the business beside the one I was parked in,he was only in the doors when a car with three little scrotes pulled up and one of them jumped in the front of his van and took his jacket,as they were taking off I pulled my van across the road effectively blocking them,naturally as rats do they abandoned ship.

ya see that's different I think most will agree here. we're talking about say if someone is in real danger etc. you intervened for a jacket and got very lucky. anyone who does that, certainly has a record and one more strike will put them in jail for a few months perhaps. now if it's between prison and getting away through someone like you, then best believe you're on the receiving end of a large knife, hammer or worse!!! for a jacket??.

yes your hearts in the right place no one disputes that but c'mon you were very lucky there to be honest, you picked your battle well in that case.
had they been travellers up to no good you'd surely have been left hurt.

mcko · 10-03-2015 9:19am

The problem is that scum have nothing to fear so they act as they do, if they thought that they would face long sentences in a harsh prison then they would cop on, if they get arrested and charged then its off to court with a legal aid solicitor and a suspended sentence. Again nothing to fear and no concept of shame.

the evasion_kid · 10-03-2015 9:24am

rusty cole wrote: »

ya see that's different I think most will agree here. we're talking about say if someone is in real danger etc. you intervened for a jacket and got very lucky. anyone who does that, certainly has a record and one more strike will put them in jail for a few months perhaps. now if it's between prison and getting away through someone like you, then best believe you're on the receiving end of a large knife, hammer or worse!!! for a jacket??.

yes your hearts in the right place no one disputes that but c'mon you were very lucky there to be honest, you picked your battle well in that case.
had they been travellers up to no good you'd surely have been left hurt.

Tbh I didn't even think,I was just about to leave anyways and locked the doors of my van, I actually couldn't get over how blatant these lads were!turns out the old guy had everything in that jacket a wallet with about 300 euro in it,phone,house keys.the likes of these scumbags just rob a car for the day and go off on a bit of a crime spree.

10-03-2015 9:30am

like I said, very honourable and nice thing to do for a complete stranger but in these times you really are taking your life into your own hands. I'd think twice about it next time that's all. If you've partner and kids especially. If you have to intervene in anything like that at all, it really should be to save someone, otherwise i'd leave it. people have been stabbed for a lot less.

you're a good guy though.

mickstupp · 10-03-2015 9:35am

endacl wrote: »

It really hasn't. In general terms, it's never been safer. In specific terms, you just read about it more. Take this thread, for example.

I used to be perfectly comfortable turning around to confront scumbags. Now I wouldn't dream of it. I'd be scared of getting stabbed for looking crooked at someone. I definitely feel like it's far more dangerous than it was 20 years ago.

Mallagio · 10-03-2015 9:56am

Word to the wise, if you can get passed the mob and take the stick without snapping.... You win.

Many a person has been hospitalized for thinking they were Chuck Norris.

Mint Aero · 10-03-2015 10:18am

Mallagio wrote: »

Word to the wise, if you can get passed the mob and take the stick without snapping.... You win.

Many a person has been hospitalized for thinking they were Chuck Norris.

Take the stick? No one gives a toss what some inbred deformed rat face crooked teeth scumbag thinks about anything. The crux of the matter is when they think they can physically abuse you as you walk passed. Do you confront them and put the worthless waste of space in their place or walk on getting abused and leaving them to think they can do whatever they want, each time escalating their antics because the normal people just take it like b*tches in their beady close set eyes.

Hoop66 · 10-03-2015 10:18am

Ask yourself, what do they want?

They want a reaction from you, so don't give them one.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 10-03-2015 10:20am

Or, they think like bullies. Prey on someone smaller/weaker.

Mint Aero · 10-03-2015 10:23am

Hoop66 wrote: »

Ask yourself, what do they want?

They want a reaction from you, so don't give them one.

Not my experience. I've had a run in like the one I mentioned already in this thread and twice while I was living in London. All 3 times when I confronted the scumbags in an authoritative manner they backed down and appeared to look very foolish and flustered in front of their fwiends.

Mallagio · 10-03-2015 10:31am

Mint Aero wrote: »

Take the stick? No one gives a toss what some inbred deformed rat face crooked teeth scumbag thinks about anything. The crux of the matter is when they think they can physically abuse you as you walk passed. Do you confront them and put the worthless waste of space in their place or walk on getting abused and leaving them to think they can do whatever they want, each time escalating their antics because the normal people just take it like b*tches in their beady close set eyes.

I can handle myself but I'm not stupid enough to think I'd kick them all around.

Stick always happens before a reaction that leads to physicality.

Mallagio · 10-03-2015 10:32am

Mint Aero wrote: »

Not my experience. I've had a run in like the one I mentioned already in this thread and twice while I was living in London. All 3 times when I confronted the scumbags in an authoritative manner they backed down and appeared to look very foolish and flustered in front of their fwiends.

You were lucky there Aero, you keep on thinking thats the way to deal with them, one day you'll be in an ambulance.

Hoop66 · 10-03-2015 10:48am

Mint Aero wrote: »

Not my experience. I've had a run in like the one I mentioned already in this thread and twice while I was living in London. All 3 times when I confronted the scumbags in an authoritative manner they backed down and appeared to look very foolish and flustered in front of their fwiends.

So, they got a reaction from you.

Iron Man 2.0 · 10-03-2015 10:52am

The kids need their parents to discipline them. There's a reason they are what they are.

Mint Aero · 10-03-2015 10:53am

Hoop66 wrote: »

So, they got a reaction from you.

Sure did, not what they were expecting nor hoping for. All they want is to look hard in front of their mates. Show that people are too afraid to confront them because they're a big hard man. They just end up embarrassed and looking like the fools they are.

Mike Guide 69 · 10-03-2015 11:31am

Mint Aero wrote: »

Sure did, not what they were expecting nor hoping for. All they want is to look hard in front of their mates. Show that people are too afraid to confront them because they're a big hard man. They just end up embarrassed and looking like the fools they are.

You see thats exactly situation I found myself in, I posted a few pages back, I definitely would'nt have reacted if

(1) Little tosser didnt kick me in the b*lls
(2) Had a skinful of drink inside me

I lashed out as I was kicked, damn right, I was'nt going to stand there and take it, I had to defend myself. Now I will admit in hindsight, especially the next morning upon reflection, it was'nt the best sitation to find myself in, as it could have ended up a lot worse. A lot of these s*umbags try to shape up as hard men, by been inolved in groups, one and one and I can guarantee its a different bet.

But as I mentioned in my earlier post, I learned that, try and not get seperated from your friends at the end of the night and if it does happen, get a taxi home,as ,sad to say, there will always be an element out there trying to ambush someone.........

nullzero · 10-03-2015 11:35am

Iron Man 2.0 wrote: »

The kids need their parents to discipline them. There's a reason they are what they are.

Of you think scrote bag kids are scummy you should meet their parents.

Mint Aero · 10-03-2015 12:15pm

Interesting thing about this thread and the usual thing you hear from people being harassed by scumbags is "oh if they were on their own" etc.

Thing is, what if people just target a stereotypical scumbag who is on his own. Like just give him a clatter across the back of the head or a kick up the hole and say stuff like "get a job" "take your hands out of your pants" If enough people started doing that anytime they see a mangey rat separated from the pack then in time we should be able to reclaim the streets for the ordinary decent hard working person.

DoYouEvenLift · 10-03-2015 12:28pm

It's surprising, the amount of psychopathic behaviour you encounter in Ireland over time. What isn't surprising is the certain 'community' a lot of the perpetrators are from, in my experiences at least. It's really best to avoid people who are blatantly looking for trouble, crazy how hastily some degenerates will take out a weapon or continue beating a person on the ground during an attack, even when it's a group of them. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to step in and try to help a person being attacked by a group, being honest I wish guns were legal here so if this was to occur I could just shoot them all.

Hoop66 · 10-03-2015 12:31pm

Mint Aero wrote: »

Thing is, what if people just target a stereotypical scumbag who is on his own. Like just give him a clatter across the back of the head or a kick up the hole and say stuff like "get a job" "take your hands out of your pants" If enough people started doing that anytime they see a mangey rat separated from the pack then in time we should be able to reclaim the streets for the ordinary decent hard working person.

Ordinary decent hard-working people who assault someone they don't like the look of? Cuts both ways.

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

being honest I wish guns were legal here so if this was to occur I could just shoot them all.

They'd have shot you first. Being violent psycopaths and all.

Mint Aero · 10-03-2015 12:33pm

Hoop66 wrote: »

Ordinary decent hard-working people who assault someone they don't like the look of? Cuts both ways.

Yeah but ordinary decent people are superior. Will win outright. Ergo I'm taking the thread to its only logical conclusion.

suicide_circus · 10-03-2015 12:50pm

A couple of travellers kids of 12 or 14 years of age tried to mug the lads and I with a pair of pliers, we refused to acquiesce to their demands.

BD45 · 10-03-2015 12:57pm

Anyone else fantasise about doing a Travis Bickle and killing scumbags?

BD45 · 10-03-2015 12:59pm

endacl wrote: »

Could have done what you would have done anyway? Kept walking? Perhaps you shouldn't drink if it brings out aggression to the extent that you can't ignore a kid saying something to you? Especially, as you say, you were in 'no danger at all'?

If, of course, and as mentioned, it happened at all...

The kid deserved it.

Zamboni · 10-03-2015 1:12pm

Ethical dilemma: Self preservation of the individual versus the safety of the wider sociological group.
Every-time you are treated poorly/violently/abused by scumbags and its goes unchecked you have just increased their level of abuse for the next victim.

The police are not sufficiently resourced to deal with the rise of the scumbag.
The courts are not sufficiently resourced due to prison space.
Nobody is coming to save you and there is no such thing as Karma.

If the individual chooses to turn a blind eye, the logical conclusion to this is the continuation of the current increase in scumbag activity and we will all suffer.

Read this story - grown men attack a 72 year old woman - they started out hurling abuse at people as teenagers.
http://www.eveningecho.ie/national-news/three-brothers-held-in-custody-after-attack-on-great-grandmother/

If we want to stop this this in our society we are all responsible for taking action. Violence should never be the first port of call to resolve situations, but it would be naieve to exclude its from it rightful place as the last resort.

endacl · 10-03-2015 1:17pm

Mint Aero wrote: »

and what if everyone does that? What if he keeps walking and your granny is the next person to pass these scumsh*ts and they threaten her too?

If that were to happen we'd be mid-zombie apocalypse. Couldn't fault the lad then.

Help!!!! · 10-03-2015 2:53pm

Mallagio wrote: »

Word to the wise, if you can get passed the mob and take the stick without snapping.... You win.

Many a person has been hospitalized for thinking they were Chuck Norris.

Many a person have been hospitalised thinking they were safe once they were passed the mob only to be sucker punched from behind

Littlekittylou · 10-03-2015 2:56pm

DeathWolf wrote: »

So we all know of these little ***** that start throwing random rocks/branches/fireworks/whatever in any part of Dublin City Center. I've usually just ignored them and walked off, but sometimes I wonder, do people ever stand back to them? Does that turn bad? I have a couple times tried to confront them, but most time they just run away. Some do get more aggressive though.

These groups of 4-5 kids seriously need to get their ass kicked sometimes, as their parents don't do it.

If it were anywhere in the US, you'd find people carrying guns in their purse and it'd create deaths here and there. Elsewhere most people would carry pepper guns or monkey fists to fight back. But in Dublin I never see people fighting back and only hear horrible stories of people getting smashed, what's it behind that?
Any stories you would share on that?

If not fighting, is there anything else that'll get them to leave you the hell alone?

I think the best course of action is to inform the guards. Who will do nothing in a very professional manner.

Mint Aero · 12-03-2015 5:24pm

"In 2007 Jeremy Clarkson was cleared of allegations of assaulting a hoodie while visiting central Milton Keynes after Thames Valley Police said that if anything, he had been the victim." - Wikipedia.

For anyone who thinks we shouldn't confront scummers when they start it, do what Clarksons do.

evolving_doors · 12-03-2015 10:21pm

Mint Aero wrote: »

"In 2007 Jeremy Clarkson was cleared of allegations of assaulting a hoodie while visiting central Milton Keynes after Thames Valley Police said that if anything, he had been the victim." - Wikipedia.

For anyone who thinks we shouldn't confront scummers when they start it, do what Clarksons do.

Sure, tell that to the 2 Polish guys who got a screwdriver in the head. Keep the posing for the mirror in your gym ... not on the streets.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 12-03-2015 11:56pm

Who was it that stabbed those two polish guys?? Kids wasnt it

evolving_doors · 13-03-2015 12:02am

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Who was it that stabbed those two polish guys?? Kids wasnt it

Yes it was, what's your point?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 13-03-2015 12:07am

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Yes it was, what's your point?

Um I didn't have one? I was just wondering if it was the same incident I was thinking of. Still goes to show, show no mercy if you're started on

Egginacup · 13-03-2015 12:27am

daRobot wrote: »

That's it exactly. End up on the ground, and you're in a critical situation.

While it might hurt your pride, it's better to walk away.

Completely agree..completely.

There are 3 options, in descending order

1. run
2. talk
3. fight

Hoping it won't get worse is never an option. If it gets to 3. it's weakeningly nauseating and hoping the kicks will stop or feigning unconsciousness will not help you.

Then it's either lie there and get kicked into a wheelchair or throw caution to the wind and tear into one like a savage...gouging, biting, tearing.

It's against your nature to fight against superior odds and I've vomitted blood in shock once or twice over the years after taking a thumping but taking a kick in the guts from one of your attackers while you're boxing the teeth off his mate on the ground is so much easier to recover from than when you're on the floor in a ball and they're wading into you.

Whatsisname · 13-03-2015 1:49am

Had one incident a few years back out on a student night, was in getting food after everywhere was closed and my girlfriend was infront of me in the que when some woman tried to jump infront, so I stood infront of her instead. All of a sudden she started mouthing off about how I was a "little cnut, who was too young to be out on a student night", (she was in her 40's atleast) and how she was gonna "break my legs outside", I just fobbed her off and told her to cop on, then I turned my head for a slight second and she tried to sucker punch me. So I grabbed her and ****ed her towards the door and sent her crawling out of the chipper, all while her lovely husband/boyfriend smiled and did nothing.

Another happened only last night at a gig in Dublin, people bump into eachother at gigs, its bound to happen but when someone is doing it really obnoxiously and repeatedly elbowing you and pushing you forward enough you end up sending other people forward, then its taking the piss. It was a calm enough gig aswell like. But I just pushed her away from me and got another push forward so I turned around to her and got "I'm just trying to have a good fúcking time" to which I replied "so I am" to be greeted with her manky middle finger right in my face, just told her to **** off and turned back, had I reacted any differently I know she would have swung for me and she would have got one straight back. Not worth getting kicked out of a gig I paid good money and ruining the night more than it already had been, but shít, it was hard not to.

Don't care what you are, man, woman, teenager, whatever, if you're big enough to hit someone, you're big enough to get one back.

sweetie · 13-03-2015 9:19am

Whatsisname wrote: »

Had one incident a few years back out on a student night, was in getting food after everywhere was closed and my girlfriend was infront of me in the que when some woman tried to jump infront, so I stood infront of her instead. All of a sudden she started mouthing off about how I was a "little cnut, who was too young to be out on a student night", (she was in her 40's atleast) and how she was gonna "break my legs outside", I just fobbed her off and told her to cop on, then I turned my head for a slight second and she tried to sucker punch me. So I grabbed her and ****ed her towards the door and sent her crawling out of the chipper, all while her lovely husband/boyfriend smiled and did nothing.

Another happened only last night at a gig in Dublin, people bump into eachother at gigs, its bound to happen but when someone is doing it really obnoxiously and repeatedly elbowing you and pushing you forward enough you end up sending other people forward, then its taking the piss. It was a calm enough gig aswell like. But I just pushed her away from me and got another push forward so I turned around to her and got "I'm just trying to have a good fúcking time" to which I replied "so I am" to be greeted with her manky middle finger right in my face, just told her to **** off and turned back, had I reacted any differently I know she would have swung for me and she would have got one straight back. Not worth getting kicked out of a gig I paid good money and ruining the night more than it already had been, but shít, it was hard not to.

Don't care what you are, man, woman, teenager, whatever, if you're big enough to hit someone, you're big enough to get one back.

ah jaysus, I draw the line at women no matter how obnoxious or scummy.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 13-03-2015 9:32am

sweetie wrote: »

ah jaysus, I draw the line at women no matter how obnoxious or scummy.

Why? My brothers ex girlfriend hit him in the face with a pint glass, broke his nose with a punch, gave him many black eyes, and knocked him down with her car when she thought he cheated on her, she slammed the boot closed down on his hand breaking all his bones in his hand, he ended up needing a bone graft.

After 2 years he hit her back. She went into the garda station, in hysterics, to press charges, guards took my brother in for a statement - he had drs reports from the glass incident, the car incidents, the broken nose, and the guard basically said she got what she deserved.

sweetie · 13-03-2015 9:42am

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Why? My brothers ex girlfriend hit him in the face with a pint glass, broke his nose with a punch, gave him many black eyes, and knocked him down with her car when she thought he cheated on her, she slammed the boot closed down on his hand breaking all his bones in his hand, he ended up needing a bone graft.

After 2 years he hit her back. She went into the garda station, in hysterics, to press charges, guards took my brother in for a statement - he had drs reports from the glass incident, the car incidents, the broken nose, and the guard basically said she got what she deserved.

have you got a more extreme example?

The guy described two once-off situations where he could have diffused them before they got physical but seemed to revel in giving the women their just desserts. I'm all for defending oneself when it comes to it but sometimes it's better to turn the other cheek.

Zamboni · 13-03-2015 9:56am

sweetie wrote: »

have you got a more extreme example?

The guy described two once-off situations where he could have diffused them before they got physical but seemed to revel in giving the women their just desserts. I'm all for defending oneself when it comes to it but sometimes it's better to turn the other cheek.

So who in society is responsible for the behaviour modification of the aggressor?

When would you turn back and confront scumbags?

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