Useless Operation Transformation Trainer (Karl Henry)

Brian? · 29-01-2015 10:19AM

walshb wrote: »

80 EURO per hour is extortion, assuming it's per hour? But, as said, nobody is forcing anyone to part with that. If people have that sort of cash and are willing to pay it then best of luck to Karl.

It's really not extortion, it's just expensive. I wouldn't pay it, but there are plenty of people who will. Transform had a great reputation for producing results, he's entitled to charge what he likes.

Sangre · 29-01-2015 10:32AM

I'm just glad I don't work with the public if €80/hour is considered extortion. They'd have a heart attack if they saw my hourly chargeout rate.

Alf Veedersane · 29-01-2015 10:39AM

Sangre wrote: »

I'm just glad I don't work with the public if €80/hour is considered extortion. They'd have a heart attack if they saw my hourly chargeout rate.

You the man who trains the neurosurgeons?

groovyg · 29-01-2015 10:43AM

NFH wrote: »

One of the contestants lost over 5 lbs and after weigh-in's all the personal trainer (Karl Henry) did was give out to him for doing additional work outside the trainers plan. Karl actually said that he was pissed off and it undermines what hes doing. The lad defended himself saying he is just trying to work harder and the trainer was like "you work hard within the plan we've set you, it takes a lot of time to make these plans and if you wanna go off with another plan then don't follow mine". He finished with a final discouraging remark saying that he wouldn't make it all the way or something.

Don't really watch the show but what a dick! The lad is over 20st workin his ass off and the trainer goes off on him for workin hard, how discouraging like! As a trainer all he can say is you should probly just stick to the plan because you don't want to do any damage etc but fair play for the hard work and commitment.

And how does it take a lot of time to make up a flippin training plan, eat this and do this blah blah blah, the hard part is doin that damn work and if hes gettin the results then give him the encouragement he deserves!

All this demonstrated is that the trainer cares more about himself than the people he's trying to help! Anyway, rant over

So after last nights episode should the thread title be changed to a rant about the doctor after she gave to the leader a telling off for binge drinking episode! :pac:

COH · 29-01-2015 10:45AM

People will spend as little as possible on their health... but they will spend 5euro a day on coffee, 8 euro a day on bad lunches, 30 quid for a few drinks after work on a Friday, 10 euro a day on cigarettes, 15 a week on the odd take away... add that up as a yearly number for the majority of your adult life then see where spending a few quid on a good coach fits in in the grand scheme of things. Then all of a sudden when thin6gs start breaking down the same people don't bat an eyelid at paying 60euro for a 5 minute meeting with a GP to get a referral for a 300euro consult with a heart surgeon, thousands on operations, hundreds on medication, thousands on health insurance, then whatever else it takes to fight their way back into the light. When in the meantime the same financial investment could have had them doing spectacular feats of physical achievements, living pain free, being sick less often, not dying younger, being happier, more confident, more productive etc etc etc. Yeah - 80e for a coach, rip off :rolleyes:

Others like to know that the person they are investing their physical well-being are top of the food chain.. that they walk the walk and for the most part spend a good portion of their spare time investing whetever is left after the cost of living, rent to the gym they work out of (no this isn't 5 euro per session jesus christ), taxes and the billion other day to charges in finding ways to offer a better service to their clients.

Quantify it this way. The 'standard' average PT rate in Dublin is probably in the region of 40 an hour. Assume the majority lose up to half that in in-house charges (rent etc) then pay tax on the rest. They probably do a 15 hour work day to train 4 people if they are lucky. I read last year the average personal trainers take home income is 12k per annum and the majority live at home! That's what any old idiot with a weekend cert 'can' charge. You're trying to tell me that someone with a decades experience, huge knowledge base, industry specificity, charisma and a proven track record of excellence isn't worth twice what the weekend cert guy charges? 'Well if my mate makes 20 quid a game playing up front for UCD's reserve team then Ronaldo only deserves 40 quid for offering the same thing for Real Madrid because f*ck it anyone can kick a ball'.

If you don't value the service then the service isn't for you. It doesn't matter if you agree with or not and while you are entitled to your opinion you should be aware that value is an individual thing 100% of the time. That's fine - no judgement here.

I will say this though - I have worked in the fitness industry since 2007/8 and in all that time I've met less than ten people out of 100s if not 1000s of 'industry professionals' in the entire country who I would trust to train my clients and each of them are 'worth' whatever it is they decide they charge and probably more.

They'll get you more in less time. 'But I just google everything and I'm 11% bodyfat and can bench 100kg so why would I need a coach?'...

Because the good ones will get you to 9% and have you doing things with your body and your life that you can't even quantify as possible on your own.

Karl Henry isn't one of them though

Anyway - that's all I'm willing to contribute to this train wreck.

Alf Veedersane · 29-01-2015 10:46AM

groovyg wrote: »

So after last nights episode should the thread title be changed to a rant about the doctor after she gave to the leader a telling off for binge drinking episode! :pac:

WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN, ROY?!?!?!?!

walshb · 29-01-2015 10:46AM

Sangre wrote: »

I'm just glad I don't work with the public if €80/hour is considered extortion. They'd have a heart attack if they saw my hourly chargeout rate.

Lecky?:D

Sangre · 29-01-2015 10:47AM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You the man who trains the neurosurgeons?

Almost, I train the trainers.

And yes, before you ask, its trainers all the way up.

walshb · 29-01-2015 10:49AM

Brian? wrote: »

It's really not extortion, it's just expensive. I wouldn't pay it, but there are plenty of people who will. Transform had a great reputation for producing results, he's entitled to charge what he likes.

Fair enough. I just think that a lot of the issues could be resolved or challenged without forking out that cash.

Gym membership in a decent gym can be as cheap as 300 per year. That's fantastic. Bits of advice here and there and many people could save a lot of 80 euros....

Alf Veedersane · 29-01-2015 10:50AM

walshb wrote: »

Fair enough. I just think that a lot of the issues could be resolved or challenged without forking out that cash.

Gym membership in a decent gym can be as cheap as 300 per year. That's fantastic. Bits of advice her and there and many people could save a lot of 80 euros....

Out of interest, have you ever been to a good trainer?

29-01-2015 10:53AM

I'm in a decent gym and i wouldn't trust half those trainers as far as i could throw them
Bits of advice got me not very far til i asked someone who knew what they were at
If you can do well on your own, good for you. As coh pointed out, compared to other day to day expenditures, it's not much for what you get

walshb · 29-01-2015 10:54AM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Out of interest, have you ever been to a good trainer?

I have never enlisted a trainer with the purpose of losing weight/toning or getting fit. I don't need to.

Alf Veedersane · 29-01-2015 11:00AM

walshb wrote: »

I have never enlisted a trainer with the purpose of losing weight/toning or getting fit. I don't need to.

That's fine.

I didn't need to.

But I wanted to be able to do the main lifts better and get advice on how I could get more out of myself.

I hadn't appreciated how much I would get out of it but I found myself liftying more, lifting it better and being less injured.

That was worth more than I paid.

There are lots of things you can do without enlisting a trainer. But people who haven't enlisted the services of a good trainer don't appreciate just what they can get out of it.

walshb · 29-01-2015 11:12AM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

That's fine.

I didn't need to.

But I wanted to be able to do the main lifts better and get advice on how I could get more out of myself.

I hadn't appreciated how much I would get out of it but I found myself liftying more, lifting it better and being less injured.

That was worth more than I paid.

There are lots of things you can do without enlisting a trainer. But people who haven't enlisted the services of a good trainer don't appreciate just what they can get out of it.

I understand that, and I am sure there are many trainers who do wonderful jobs.

I suppose it's all very personal. What exactly does the person want to do?

I would say there are a lot of people paying a of of money to trainers for very basic and simple stuff. Stuff they could really try themselves. Eat correctly and stay active is what most people need, not the ability to clean and jerk or snatch, or do the perfect burpee....

I see it all the time. Heavy and overweight people doing a variety of weights and stretches etc, when all they need is a decent walk 4-5 times a week, and to watch what they eat. Then again for many people the motivation to do it is the cash they hand over and the meeting with the trainer. They need that motivation and reason to keep active and to eat well. There is a social aspect to it. Getting out and meeting your trainer for 60-90 minutes 3-4 times per week.

Alf Veedersane · 29-01-2015 11:18AM

walshb wrote: »

I understand that, and I am sure there are many trainers who do wonderful jobs.

I suppose it's all very personal. What exactly does the person want to do?

I would say there are a lot of people paying a of of money to trainers for very basic and simple stuff. Stuff they could really try themselves. Eat correctly and stay active is what most people need, not the ability to clean and jerk or snatch, or do the perfect burpee....

I see it all the time. Heavy and overweight people doing a variety of weights and stretches etc, when all they need is a decent walk 4-5 times a week, and to watch what they eat. Then again for many people the motivation to do it is the cash they hand over and the meeting with the trainer. They need that motivation and reason to keep active and to eat well. There is a social aspect to it. Getting out and meeting your trainer for 60-90 minutes 3-4 times per week.

People's goals change over time.

Someone might start wanting to lose weight and get fit and then that evolves.

"Price is what you pay. Value is what you get". It's used a lot because it''s true.

Some people have goals whwereby they don't think they need to invest in a trainer. Some people do.

I've yet to meet anyone that has gone to a good trainer who didn't think they got value for money. And that's all that matters.

LuckyLloyd · 29-01-2015 11:39AM

walshb wrote: »

Fair enough. I just think that a lot of the issues could be resolved or challenged without forking out that cash.

Gym membership in a decent gym can be as cheap as 300 per year. That's fantastic. Bits of advice here and there and many people could save a lot of 80 euros....

Why is it as low as €300 a year? Have you ever considered that?

Why can Ben Dunne offer memberships at €200 a year?

Hint: if all paying members tried to work out at the same time there would be a scrum outside the building.

LuckyLloyd · 29-01-2015 11:41AM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Someone might start wanting to lose weight and get fit and then that evolves.

Right. My goals in January 2013 were very different to what they are now in January 2015.

Oryx · 29-01-2015 11:45AM

People who just need to walk and eat better might not need an €80 trainer. Or maybe that €80 can get them working when other methods have failed, because of their experience of dealing with people, and natural knack. Who knows? If someone does not get value for their money, they wont continue with the training. In other words if the guy is ineffective, he wont get that kind of money.

Being fit and healthy is not rocket science. It can be bottled into this one statement: Eat less, move more. But in practice it is a lot more nuanced than that, and even when the lesson is simple, you still sometimes need to be retold what you instinctively know to hammer it home, or because actually, youre not doing it how you think you are. Its human nature. And some people need hand holding, some need to become more efficient, some need to be held back from doing too much, that is where the skill of a teacher comes in. Understanding the person, and their needs, as well as the technical aspects of training.

I dont need a coach for what I do, but I have one. I will never win races, but I invest a lot of my time and money in what I do, so I see it as part of my hobby that I pay for. In my case, I already know WHAT to do, but I hand the decisions on where when and how I do it, to someone else. So far, it has saved me from overtraining and injury which had become chronic before the coach got involved. It means I continue to enjoy what I do. Thats worth what I pay (which is a lot)

walshb · 29-01-2015 11:49AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why is it as low as €300 a year? Have you ever considered that?

Why can Ben Dunne offer memberships at €200 a year?

Hint: if all paying members tried to work out at the same time there would be a scrum outside the building.

Not sure what point you are making. Gym membership prices are great in some gyms, and if the gym is used then it's excellent. I have been a member of several gyms that offered excellent facilities and opening times. Never had any issues training at them.

walshb · 29-01-2015 11:49AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hint: if all paying members tried to work out at the same time there would be a scrum outside the building.

And when would this scenario ever happen? Pointless bringing it up...

walshb · 29-01-2015 11:50AM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

People's goals change over time.

Someone might start wanting to lose weight and get fit and then that evolves.

"Price is what you pay. Value is what you get". It's used a lot because it''s true.

Some people have goals whwereby they don't think they need to invest in a trainer. Some people do.

I've yet to meet anyone that has gone to a good trainer who didn't think they got value for money. And that's all that matters.

No arguments there.

Like I said, I am sure many trainers are value for money and are doing their clients a good/great service.

LuckyLloyd · 29-01-2015 11:54AM

walshb wrote: »

Not sure what point you are making. Gym membership prices are great in some gyms, and if the gym is used then it's excellent. I have been a member of several gyms that offered excellent facilities and opening times. Never had any issues training at them.

The point I am making is that general run of the mill gym memberships are the price they are because 90%+ of those that sign up utilise their membership a mere handful of times per year. That 90% subsidise your membership fee. To put it another way, the price you pay is not commensurate to the value you receive. And the 90% plus derive no value from their membership, none.

That has the effect of skewing perceptions for what a good facility (like a Crossfit or S & C gym) or top class trainer (like Transform or COH) should cost. It is the Ben Dunne membership that yields no results for 90% which are a scam, not the personal training that will reliably move 90% towards where they need / want to be.

Price is what you pay, value is what you get.

walshb · 29-01-2015 11:57AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Price is what you pay, value is what you get.

Yes, and I get excellent value. Like I said, it's all personal. I couldn't give a toss who goes to the gym. I go 4- 5 times per week and get excellent value. Very good facilities and excellent opening times. All the equipment I need.

I don't have the statistics for the gyms I was in. I would need them to maybe say what the attendance rates are. How many members, how many go and how often they go etc.

You said: "90%+ of those that sign up utilise their membership a mere handful of times per year."

Maybe you can verify or back this up, but to throw it out without real reserach wouldn't be wise. I am not saying it's not true, or not close to the mark, but I'd wait and see.

From my own experience the gyms I have been in were always very busy and there seemed to be many people training at all times. Now, that is not to say that the whole membership figure was regularly attending. I would need the gyms to break down this information.

Alf Veedersane · 29-01-2015 12:03PM

In the words of yer wan from the hair ad:

"Because I'm worth it"

[/we all live happily ever after]

walshb · 29-01-2015 12:04PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

In the words of yer wan from the hair ad:

"Because I'm worth it"

[/we all live happily ever after]

The trainer's worth it, or the trainee?:pac:

Alf Veedersane · 29-01-2015 12:05PM

walshb wrote: »

The trainer's worth it, or the trainee?:pac:

Because I am worth investing what a good trainer costs.

29-01-2015 12:09PM

You forgot to flip your hair

LuckyLloyd · 29-01-2015 12:11PM

walshb wrote: »

Yes, and I get excellent value. Like I said, it's all personal. I couldn't give a toss who goes to the gym. I go 4- 5 times per week and get excellent value. Very good facilities and excellent opening times. All the equipment I need.

Yes, you get excellent value and are totally unable to see from outside your own perspective.

walshb wrote: »

I don't have the statistics for the gyms I was in. I would need them to maybe say what the attendance rates are. How many members, how many go and how often they go etc.

You: "90%+ of those that sign up utilise their membership a mere handful of times per year." Maybe you can verify or back this up, but to throw it out without real reserach wouldn't be wise. I am not saying it's not true, or close to the mark, but I'd wait and see.

I'd say it's pretty close to the mark but I can't prove it.

Bear in mind though that at €200 per year you need 1000 memberships to have gross revenue of €200k. Subtract Tax, equipment, equipment depreciation, staff, cleaning, insurance, etc from that €200k per facility. Now think about how many members are in a Ben Dunne at any one time (even when it's busy), and how many member might be 'core' regulars you see all the time. Yeah, 90% sounds right to me.

Alf Veedersane · 29-01-2015 12:14PM

bluewolf wrote: »

You forgot to flip your hair

I didn't.

Some things go without saying.

walshb · 29-01-2015 12:26PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes, you get excellent value and are totally unable to see from outside your own perspective.

I'd say it's pretty close to the mark but I can't prove it.

.

I don't need to see anything else. Training and personal trainers. The clue is in the title. It's personal. I don't care who uses the gym. I use it and I get excellent value.

As to your figures. 90 + percent of the members only utilize the gym a handful of times per year? I would disagree there. Disagree as regards the big gyms I have been a member of. They have always been fairly active and busy. Unless there membership is astronomical then I would say your figure is well off the mark. Most of these gyms are open 14-16 hrs per day. Most people probably spend between 60-90 minutes there. That's a lot of groupings and time intervals.

BTW, I would view 2 or less visits per week as not utilizing your membership. That is about 100 visits per year from a possible 363 or so available days. You seem to be implying that 90 percent of the members are going a lot lot less than 100 times in a year. I assume a handful to me is the same as to you. Say 10-15 times per year?

Useless Operation Transformation Trainer (Karl Henry)

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