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Zimbabwe gives white farmers 90 days to vacate farms in latest land grabs.

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    #62
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Not particularly.

    Agriculture as a whole in Europe is set up so that people delberately underproduce, propped up by the CAP etc. Last thing we need is more farmers, experienced or no.

    You're wrong there. The new accession states are finding it very difficult to find farm labourers. Could kill two birds with one stone by welcoming the 30k or so White Zims back. They can earn their citizenship and eventually move onto the bigger and better things.


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    #63
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    bnt wrote: »
    Of course! Our concern has absolutely nothing to do with how this exacerbates the already-serious food shortage in Zimbabwe. If Mugabe gets his way, there will be no white people left in Zimbabwe, but that doesn't matter since farming enough food to feed a nation doesn't require any skills or experience ...

    But I've never seen a thread on AH about how CAP reduces the competitiveness of African farmers and intensifies hunger, or the plight of indigenous Americans in South and Latin America!

    But you mention one small group of whites and suddenly half the right-wingers on AH become bleeding hearts :)


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    #64
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    You're wrong there. The new accession states are finding it very difficult to find farm labourers. Could kill two birds with one stone by welcoming the 30k or so White Zims back. They can earn their citizenship and eventually move onto the bigger and better things.

    If we needed more farmers than that, could we take black African farmers too into Europe and give them citizenship and rights to the land?


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    #65
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    ireland.man wrote: »
    If we needed more farmers than that, could we take black African farmers too into Europe and give them citizenship and rights to the land?

    I think Africa needs all the farmers it can get. If they want to consficate the lands of the most productive, that's their beeswax. Anyway, what I'm proposing is for an ancestrial right of return for oppressed people of European descent currently living in Africa.


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    #66
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    I think Africa needs all the farmers it can get. If they want to consficate the lands of the most productive, that's their beeswax. Anyway, what I'm proposing is for an ancestrial right of return for oppressed people of European descent currently living in Africa.

    So not black Africans? Regardless of your concern for the economies of African nations, you wouldn't want black Africans being given rights to land in Europe like you would like to extend to white Africans?


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    #67
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    There are precious few white farmers remaining in Zimbabwe, probably a tiny percentage of the roughly 4000 that were there 20 years ago. Most of the remaining white community are urban business people or professionals.

    The big faultline in Zimbabwe these days is the factional fighting within Zanu-PF over who's going to succeed the old man when he finally shuffles off this mortal coil. In all likelihood, rabble rousing about the nearly non-existent white farmers is connected to that.


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    #68
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,965 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    ireland.man wrote: »
    If we needed more farmers than that, could we take black African farmers too into Europe and give them citizenship and rights to the land?
    Since when do migrant labourers get rights to land?

    As for all that stuff about the CAP ... we're talking about food for Zimbabwe's internal market, not food to be sold on the international market. CAP is not a barrier to food for local consumption. Even so, you'll find plenty of fresh African produce on the supermarket shelves at this time of year. Not much of it will be from Zimbabwe, though, since many of the new farmers are growing tobacco, which is more profitable. (See the article I linked above.)

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #69
    Eramen
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Eramen


    ireland.man wrote: »
    But I've never seen a thread on AH about how CAP reduces the competitiveness of African farmers and intensifies hunger, or the plight of indigenous Americans in South and Latin America!

    But you mention one small group of whites and suddenly half the right-wingers on AH become bleeding hearts :)


    We're bringing attention to the troubles of a minority in Zimbabwe who we have a connection with, as their ancestors were from Europe, the continent in which we live.

    African/Asian Americans highlight the plight of their own ethnic groups and peoples in their 'home countries' all the time, the same for blacks, Arabs and Asians living in Europe, yet we don't hear people of 'your brand' of politics complain about that. It's patently two-faced.

    I wouldn't be surprised if some European governments refused to take them in, like they did to the whites seeking to come from S. Africa, even though they were/are under horrendous conditions. That's 'enlightened humanitarianism' for ya/.

    If we don't stick up for these people who used to be Europeans like ourselves, just who the f*ck will? The correct answer is nobody.. they are on their own. However, thinking people will do their best to speak up for them.

    White 'liberal' supremacists will cry.


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    #70
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    ireland.man wrote: »
    So not black Africans? Regardless of your concern for the economies of African nations, you wouldn't want black Africans being given rights to land in Europe like you would like to extend to white Africans?

    Can you read? I said give them ancestrial rights to return, use their skills to plug labour shortages in EU states, and after x amount of years, they can gain citizenship and move onto better things. I never said give them land. Or anything other than the right to return.


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    #71
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    Can you read? I said give them ancestrial rights to return, use their skills to plug labour shortages in EU states, and after x amount of years, they can gain citizenship and move onto better things. I never said give them land. Or anything other than the right to return.

    So you're grand with those white immigrants but do you want to reduce immigration rates of people from non-European 'races'?


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    #72
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,653 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Eramen wrote: »
    Yes, and now this will be a precursor to the greater suffering of all Zimbabweans -white or black - which is partly the point of this thread. But one should be free to point out the plight of white Africans too you know. Special attention is required and I for one won't be swayed by the usual holier-than-thou 'inclusivity' mantras.

    Most of the farms that where taken over in South Africa by the ANC in the exact same way led to vast shortfalls in productivity and heavy importation/rising prices of food.

    SA has not recovered, and it's doubtful that they will with the corrupt national marxists from the ANC in power. So the average man has reverted to a subsistence-based lifestyle and relying on economy-destroying Asian imports. Similar things have been happening in Zimbabwe and will continue unfortunately.
    Don't get me wrong it is awful and definitely needs attention in the very near future, but I find it odd when people say that it requires special attention. Thousands of Ndebele were killed by Mugabe's thugs in the 80s well before the land grabs and they continue to be discriminated against alongside the whites and anyone who opposes Mugabe. Zimbabwe has many problems that need attention and a common solution


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    #73
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    Can you read? I said give them ancestrial rights to return, use their skills to plug labour shortages in EU states, and after x amount of years, they can gain citizenship and move onto better things. I never said give them land. Or anything other than the right to return.

    I'm not sure that's his point, it's almost like he is making some other point, trying to say something else, It's so unusual, I can't quite figure it out at all.

    It's like he's building, building, getting more and more excited, It can't be long.........


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    #74
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    Can you read? I said give them ancestrial rights to return, use their skills to plug labour shortages in EU states, and after x amount of years, they can gain citizenship and move onto better things. I never said give them land. Or anything other than the right to return.


    They're already entitled to asylum like any human being, and that won't change into some charity scheme for an imagined herrenvolk any time soon.


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    #75
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    Can you read? I said give them ancestrial rights to return, use their skills to plug labour shortages in EU states, and after x amount of years, they can gain citizenship and move onto better things. I never said give them land. Or anything other than the right to return.

    About ancestral right of return, does this apply to the children of those farmers who may be of mixed ethnicity? So if a farmer had a child with a black woman fifty years ago, would the resulting lineage of the mother have an ancestral right of return or just pure whites?


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    #76
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    Nodin wrote: »
    They're already entitled to asylum like any human being, and that won't change into some charity scheme for an imagined herrenvolk any time soon.

    Lots of countries in Europe offer ancestrial rights to citizenship and ancestry visas. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Nothing new there.


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    #77
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    Lots of countries in Europe offer ancestrial rights to citizenship and ancestry visas. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Nothing new there.


    Yep, normally some of the people here are the first ones to speak up for persecuted minorities.....


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    #78
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    Lots of countries in Europe offer ancestrial rights to citizenship and ancestry visas. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Nothing new there.

    Well done on pointing out something stupid I didn't say!

    Would you personally make that decision to extend an ancestral right of return to Zimbabweans who might have both white and black parents?

    So if the majority of the lineage of European farmers from over a 100 years ago are non-white, would they still be free to have your ideal ancestral rights?


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    #79
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Sociopath2 wrote: »
    I wonder would Israel go the same way if there was a reversal of power there?

    I'd imagine there'd be a lot of people looking to even the score with the Zionists.

    Not at all. The West Bank Palestinian whose land was given to settlers five years ago would say: " Please keep it. I don't need it. And why should I want to rebuild the house of mine that Israeli soldiers demolished. I have a tent to live in. Heaven forbid that any Zionist or friend of a Zionist should think me unreasonable."


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    #80
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    ireland.man wrote: »
    About ancestral right of return, does this apply to the children of those farmers who may be of mixed ethnicity? So if a farmer had a child with a black woman fifty years ago, would the resulting lineage of the mother have an ancestral right of return or just pure whites?

    You seem a bit race obsessed and a bit of a eugenics enthusiast, what do you say? What kinda volk did you have in mind?


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    #81
    Letree
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Letree


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    From the bread basket of Africa to a basket case. Western leaders need to cut off all aid and reimpose sanctions. Perhaps European countries could offer the Whites relocation here and a pathway to citizenship? They are clearly not wanted in Zim, so perhaps giving them the option of returning to the mothership could help sort this mess.


    I agree, Europe should offer them asylum. They would integrate very well in Europe and that is what we need. Full integration not parallel societies.


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    #82
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    ireland.man wrote: »

    So if the majority of the lineage of European farmers from over a 100 years ago are non-white, would they still be free to have your ideal ancestral rights?


    They aren't, so your wild hypothetical question is useless but we'll done on trying to pigeon hole people into the 'racist box'. All too predictable.


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    #83
    Eramen
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Eramen


    ireland.man wrote: »
    Well done on pointing out something stupid I didn't say!

    Would you personally make that decision to extend an ancestral right of return to Zimbabweans who might have both white and black parents?

    So if the majority of the lineage of European farmers from over a 100 years ago are non-white, would they still be free to have your ideal ancestral rights?


    There's a lot of arm twisting going on here.

    Mugabe is throwing these people off their land and livelihood because they are white, what part of that is hard to understand? Are you complicating matters over your agenda - i.e. trying to find the ol' racists for your enjoyment?

    Read the post about the Zimbabwe government targeting whites, I think you missed it, as it's obvious the intent is aimed at cleansing them from the country. If you lost your land, house, means of income, and the government makes your life difficult at every turn, you'd really have to consider your options at that point.


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    #84
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    ireland.man wrote: »
    Well done on pointing out something stupid I didn't say!

    Eh, I wasnt responding to you and wasn't quoting you. I told you on the other thread, if you want a questions and answers session; message me. It gets repetitive for the readers.


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    #85
    Letree
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Letree


    Eramen wrote: »
    There's a lot of arm twisting going on here.

    Mugabe is throwing these people off their land and livelihood because they are white, what part of that is hard to understand?

    Are you complicating things over your agenda - i.e. trying to find the ol' racists for your enjoyment? Read the post about the Zimbabwe government targeting whites, I think you missed it, as it's obvious the intent is aimed at cleansing them from the country.

    I'm sure if there was a country in 2015 that was throwing blacks of their land the lefties here would be shouting for them to get asylum in the west.


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    #86
    Sociopath2
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭Sociopath2


    Nodin wrote: »
    They're already entitled to asylum like any human being, and that won't change into some charity scheme for an imagined herrenvolk any time soon.

    An opportunity exists to bring skilled and experienced workers into the EU, where they are likely to integrate well because of their background. It should be considered.

    Some of the more forward thinking African nations have tried it, recognising the potential advantage to their countries.

    "At the start of the land seizure policy in 2000, Zimbabwe had 4,500 white farmers, now about 400 remain on portions of their farms. Mozambique, Zambia and Nigeria have welcomed some of the skilled white farmers."

    Even Mugabe wanted them back, recognising their expertise:

    "White farmers may be allowed back on their land in Zimbabwe as part of a plan by the government of Robert Mugabe to solve the country's deepening economic crisis.

    The president's key finance aide has called for some of the farmers whose properties were confiscated in a land seizure programme to be allowed to resume growing crops to boost the country's flagging agricultural output."

    "However, observers say his plan would be an implicit admission that the land seizure policy has failed.

    A Zimbabwean economist, John Robertson, said: "This shows the desperation of the government to improve the economy. They say it is not a reversal of their land seizures, but it is. It won't get very far."

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/may/21/zimbabwe.andrewmeldrum

    The Nazi reference is unnecessary, if you want to call someone a racist just come out and do it.


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    #87
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    Letree wrote: »
    I'm sure if there was a country in 2015 that was throwing blacks of their land the lefties here would be shouting for them to get asylum in the west.

    Yes we would, of course. We're not hypocrites, you see. I support increasing support for asylum applications from people who are being targeted and abused and under threat, which would include whites from South Africa and Zimbabwe, but also black Nigerians, Syrians and Muslim Burmese people.

    You, on the otherhand, jump at the chance to shed crocodile tears for 4000 white people while taking every other chance to say you couldn't give two sh*ts for immigrants in general.


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    #88
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Sociopath2 wrote: »
    An opportunity exists to bring skilled and experienced workers into the EU, where they are likely to integrate well because of their background..........

    I'm sure there are any number of methods by which they can come to Europe or a number of other areas, and I've never said they couldn't or shouldn't do so.


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    #89
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    ireland.man wrote: »
    Yes we would, of course. We're not hypocrites, you see. I support increasing support for asylum applications from people who are being targeted and abused and under threat, which would include whites from South Africa and Zimbabwe, but also black Nigerians, Syrians and Muslim Burmese people.

    You, on the otherhand, jump at the chance to shed crocodile tears for 4000 white people while taking every other chance to say you couldn't give two sh*ts for immigrants in general.

    Who is this we collective you are fronting now?


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    #90
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    .


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    #91
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'm sure there are any number of methods by which they can come to Europe or a number of other areas, and I've never said they couldn't or shouldn't do so.

    So just what is your problem so?


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