Leo Varadkar comes out as gay

AgileMyth wrote: »

What business is it of anyone else? Nobody ever comes out as straight.

Ah the privilege of the majority. I doubt you are doing anything but pretending to be unable to explain this to yourself already.

Banjo String wrote: »

I can't help feeling though, this revelation will seriously hinder him from ever taking the FG leadership reigns.

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Unfortunately I think this may seriously harm his prospects of becoming Taoiseach one day

It is of course possible - but at least he has the guts to test that. There is a parallel claim in the US that it would be impossible to become elected at all - let alone as president - if you were an outed atheist for example. But how many people have actually tried it? The numbers are low - and perhaps the idea it would not happen is just an assumed part of the narrative.

Similarly here - we might assume a minority sexuality would preclude one from office or specific levels of office. But rather than simply follow that narrative I wonder would we not be better off if people actually tried it.

In a world where we lament the lack of honest politicians - the public seem to maintain narratives that almost positively necessitate secrets and the hiding of ones true self and position. I like to see that narrative being actively challenged and changed.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The people who think it is as big deal to come out as gay are the problem.People being completely indifferent about his sexuality are what society should be striving for and making a big deal about it by having to make a public announcement (to people who have no business knowing anything about his personal life) is kind of admitting that its a big deal when it really isn't.

I think you are both right and wrong at the same time. The kind of society you say we should strive for is exactly the one you describe. One where your sexuality with regards other consensual adults simply has no meaning or relevance to anyone.

The issue is how to get to that society and how to do that striving. And one way simply happens to be to normalise it by having it in the public eye. To make the homophobes of the world see that homosexuality is not some back street gutter thing - but that homosexuals are our politicians - our teachers - our clergy - our doctors - our sports and media heros - and so forth. Especially at a time when a referendum relevant to that community is upcoming - we want our public to be aware that we are not voting for some faceless underground sub-culture that only shows its face in gay bars - but real people - in all areas of our society and world.

So like you I strive towards a society where people do not need to come out - but unlike you I see the utility of people coming out as being part of that journey. Would that they did not have to - but that is not the society we are in yet.

You say that _YOU_ do not care about this announcement - that is because you are already the kind of person we want in the society of which we speak. The utility of his coming out has nothing to do with you - or I - who want such an announcement not to matter in the first place though. I do not care which politicians - if any - or if all - are of whatever sexuality either. I do care about what the influence of high profile people coming out can be however. And that is the distinction worth installing between your caring and not caring I feel.

And even the homosexuality issue aside - a politician being honest - in a society where we lament the lack of honest politicians - where the narrative is pretty compelling to have the politician not be honest - also sets a bar worth lauding too.

liam24 wrote: »

Look at what a hypocrite he is, opposing gay adoption. I wonder if he's still against it

I am not sure where you see hypocrisy here as being homosexual - and gay adoption - and gay marriage - are all different issues entirely. It is perfectly possible to have nothing whatsoever against homosexuality - homosexual sex - or even be homosexual oneself - and be against gay adoption.

I disagree with him - I think the arguments against gay adoption are non-existent and the ones he attempts to offer in your video are patent nonsense - but I do not see a shred of hypocrisy between being gay - and being against gay adoption. He see him as being wrong - uninformed - and full of assumption in the video you just showed - but not in any way hypocritical at all.

VinLieger wrote: »

He's only a hypocrite if he goes back on what he said now. You might need to learn the meaning of the actual word.

I am not sure that that is the correct definition of hypocrisy at all. That is changing ones mind. An entirely different thing indeed. I do not look down on people who change their mind. I look up to them. It is the people who make up their mind and refuse to ever change it that concern me.

Alas the narrative of our media does not help much here - when any time a politician changes position or direction on an issue we throw around words like "flip flopping" and "back tracking" and other phrases either directly - or implicitly - disparaging. I would prefer our elected representatives to be open to reason - data - and argument - and be perfectly open to - and lauded for - changing their mind when it is correct to do so.

liam24 wrote: »

Here's the point. He will have changed his mind - now that he's gay.

I am not sure I am understanding what do you mean by "now that he is gay". Are you assuming he was not gay in the video you linked to? Are you conflating announcing on a particular day that you are a gay man - with becoming gay on that day?

I see zero reason to think that he was not just as gay in the video you linked to - as he is today. Do you?

It seems macyard has been booted out for some obvious trolling - but perhaps his question is worth an answer all the same for the more genuine people who share the surprise that he was likely only feigning.

Yes the predominant feeling I have come across - by far - in the gay community is you are born that way. That does not mean however that a gay person will always know it. I have encountered many who share this position of not having known it - or having essentially known it but denied it in every way.

Remember our society is heavily heterosexual - and our social and legal and other structures are built with this dynamic implicit in it. Growing up with that narrative around you - many simply assume themselves to be straight - because the feelings they are having simply do not parse through the dynamic of the society they find themselves in. They might dismiss their feelings in all kinds of ways. Infatuations perhaps. A sickness perhaps. A phase that might go away. Or if parsing it through religious memes - thinking it is some evil thing inside them.

Some of these people genuinely have to either realise what their feelings are and mean - or simply acknowledge them rather than bury them - coming out to themselves essentially. While an unfortunate few implode under it before realising what it all is - and act out their genuine deep confusions and issues in ways harmful to themselves - others - or both.

So even if we acknowledge homosexuality is an attribute one is born with - one can _FAR_ from assume that a gay person is aware of it cognizant of it from the outset. And their realisation of it later in life is not the same thing as choosing to be gay later in life - despite the anti gay lobby using such people as examples to rubbish the "gay from birth" position.