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Leo Varadkar comes out as gay

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    #992
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Completely agree. I wasnt old enough to vote in 95 or 97 but would have voted no to divorce and for Dana. Peoples views change over time.

    Divorce, I'll give you but wanting to vote for Dana..?


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    #993
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,021 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Just wondering if there's a transcript of this on government websites anywhere would you know?
    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2010/01/27/00017.asp

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #994
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    would have voted for Dana.

    What was it like being out and gay in 95-97 as a young person


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    #995
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Completely agree. I wasnt old enough to vote in 95 or 97 but would have voted no to divorce and for Dana. Peoples views change over time.

    I was old enough and I voted for divorce and against Dana. I have to say a large part of that was my parents. I went to a very catholic school. Between school and TV there was a hell of a lot pro catholic propaganda. It was very rare to hear/see a dissenting opinion. If my parents hadn't presented me with one then I never would have heard one.


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    #996
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Stark wrote: »
    10 years ago I would have held pro-life views, these days I'd be almost militantly pro-choice. People's views change over time as they become better educated on issues, exposed to various debates etc. Don't think that makes one a hypocrite. And don't think any more explanation is needed than "I wasn't aware of the issues then, I am now".

    Very similar here. I was of the 'have the baby and give it up for adoption' view and 'if people decide they are gay, then they can't expect to have the same rights to adopt' mindset when I left school 15 years ago. College, travel and working with all sorts of people have made me reassess many things. Having children cemented my prochoice views.


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    #997
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    lazygal wrote: »
    Very similar here. I was of the 'have the baby and give it up for adoption' view and 'if people decide they are gay, then they can't expect to have the same rights to adopt' mindset when I left school 15 years ago. College, travel and working with all sorts of people have made me reassess many things. Having children cemented my prochoice views.

    15 years ago the world was way less liberal and you where young.

    He said this in 2009 and was a grown middle age adult.

    I am very pro choice women gets to chose to keep baby or kill it, man get 3 months after he is told to be allowed to disown the baby and have also no legal obligations to it.

    Choice for both parents


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    #998
    ectoraige
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭ectoraige


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Completely agree. I wasnt old enough to vote in 95 or 97 but would have voted no to divorce and for Dana. Peoples views change over time.

    Dana?? Some things are unforgivable!


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    #999
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,021 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    macyard wrote: »
    What was it like being out and gay in 95-97 as a young person

    I wasnt even out to myself

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #1000
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Has he announced how gay he is yet? Is he a top or a bottom or both? Does he use protection? Has he been tested for hiv? Will he be hitting the George this weekend?

    These are questions that need answering. The electorate have the right to know.


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    #1001
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I wasnt even out to myself

    You didn't know you where gay? I though you where born gay I understand you might not tell others but you should have know unless if was choice later in life


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    #1002
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    macyard wrote: »
    15 years ago the world was way less liberal and you where young.

    He said this in 2009 and was a grown middle age adult.

    I am very pro choice women gets to chose to keep baby or kill it, man get 3 months after he is told to be allowed to disown the baby and have also no legal obligations to it.

    Choice for both parents

    That's not abortion you're advocating there, it's infanticide. I don't think it comes under the usual definition of "pro-choice".

    As for the man disowning the resulting child, once it's born it has its own human rights, and those include contact with and support from its parents. I don't think the various Human Rights charters allow parents just to disengage. Adoption being a bit of an anomaly, I grant you - but then the concept of adoption dates from the times when the father practically never supported the illegitimate child, so that only the mother was left, literally, holding the baby.

    The rules around adoption should possibly be adjusted, alright, but no way is there ever going to be a law that allows either parent to simply disown an existing child. So you need to rethink your position if you want it to be anything other than fantasy.


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    #1003
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    macyard wrote: »
    You didn't know you where gay? I though you where born gay I understand you might not tell others but you should have know unless if was choice later in life

    Lol. You're so funny!


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    #1004
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    volchitsa wrote: »
    That's not abortion you're advocating there, it's infanticide. I don't think it comes under the usual definition of "pro-choice".

    Only the mom have the right to chose to kill it and only at the early stage of pregnancy, there has to be a way for the dad to get an out too and since he cannot force the mon to kill it a removal of all responsibility in the same timeframe the mon has the choice to abort is a very fair option


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    #1005
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    macyard wrote: »
    Only the mom have the right to chose to kill it and only at the early stage of pregnancy, there has to be a way for the dad to get an out too and since he cannot force the mon to kill it a removal of all responsibility in the same timeframe the mon has the choice to abort is a very fair option

    So it's not a child. And why does there "have" to be a way to "get an out"? The roles aren't symmetrical - unless and until the father can have the pregnancy and then give birth, that is.
    You might as well say it's unfair that women get maternity leave from work to give birth. Or maybe you do say that?


    (Just to be clear, I'm talking about the time it takes for the woman to give birth and to recover physically from that. Not about the time to look after the child after that, which could and should IMO, be shared between the parents.)

    PS - why the Americanisms, btw?


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    #1006
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    volchitsa wrote: »
    So it's not a child. And why does there "have" to be a way to "get an out"? The roles aren't symmetrical - unless and until the father can have the pregnancy and then give birth, that is.
    You might as well say it's unfair that women get maternity leave from work to give birth. Or maybe you do say that?


    (Just to be clear, I'm talking about the time it takes for the woman to give birth and to recover physically from that. Not about the time to look after the child after that, which could and should IMO, be shared between the parents.)

    I do think men and women should get the same paternity leave before and after the birth father should be allowed to look after the wife just before birth, also if the takes an out the mom can still have the baby just can claim for him to be on the hook for it


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    #1007
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    macyard wrote: »
    I do think men and women should get the same paternity leave before and after the birth father should be allowed to look after the wife just before birth, also if the takes an out the mom can still have the baby just can claim for him to be on the hook for it

    This has nothing to do with Varadkar's coming out


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    #1008
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,582 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    The idea of mothers getting paternity leave is novel, though.


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    #1009
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    efb wrote: »
    This has nothing to do with Varadkar's coming out

    Right back to varadkar thinking gay parents are a terrible idea


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    #1010
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    The closet can suffocate you with homophobia


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    #1011
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    efb wrote: »
    The closet can suffocate you with homophobia

    Or he is a right wing politician, with right wing ideals, you can be right wing and gay


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    #1012
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    efb wrote: »
    The closet can suffocate you with homophobia
    It's the oldest cover in the book - people seem to think that if you can be as homophobic and vicious as possible about gay people, then you can convince other people and yourself that you're not actually gay.

    The number of viciously anti-gay people who've been subsequently found in compromising positions with people of the same sex is quite incredible.

    I'd put even money on the vast majority of anti-gay campaigners being at least bisexual. If you're brought up to believe that one of the fundamental pieces of your identity is evil and wrong, then you're going to be a very unhappy person indeed.


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    #1013
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    seamus wrote: »
    It's the oldest cover in the book - people seem to think that if you can be as homophobic and vicious as possible about gay people, then you can convince other people and yourself that you're not actually gay.

    The number of viciously anti-gay people who've been subsequently found in compromising positions with people of the same sex is quite incredible.

    I'd put even money on the vast majority of anti-gay campaigners being at least bisexual. If you're brought up to believe that one of the fundamental pieces of your identity is evil and wrong, then you're going to be a very unhappy person indeed.

    Is the same true about so many gays using the attack on paedophiles, would you bet the vast majority are at least into teenage boys?


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    #1014
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    macyard wrote: »
    Is the same true about so many gays using the attack on paedophiles
    English please.


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    #1015
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    seamus wrote: »
    English please.

    You seem to think if some doesn't like something they are secretly it, gays get very defensive about the links to gay paedophiles are they secretly in that closet and into boys


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    #1016
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    seamus wrote: »
    I'd put even money on the vast majority of anti-gay campaigners being at least bisexual.
    At least?!?! Are some of them trisexual?


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    #1017
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    macyard wrote: »
    You seem to think if some doesn't like something they are secretly it, gays get very defensive about the links to gay paedophiles are they secretly in that closet and into boys
    That's a straw man argument, I never said that this applies across all arguments.
    That's like saying that people who hate blacks must be secretly black.

    Homosexuals and paedophiles are two different data sets, likewise are the people opposed to paedophilia and the people opposed to homosexuality. (though I would hope the latter is a subset of the former)
    At least?!?! Are some of them trisexual?
    As in, "Try anything once"? You know what I mean when I say "at least". :)


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    #1018
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    macyard wrote: »
    Is the same true about so many gays using the attack on paedophiles, would you bet the vast majority are at least into teenage boys?
    You nearly have a point in there but JFC what a way to go about making it...


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    #1019
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    seamus wrote: »
    That's a straw man argument, I never said that this applies across all arguments.
    That's like saying that people who hate blacks must be secretly black.

    Homosexuals and paedophiles are two different data sets.

    Seems like gays use you don't like gay stuff you are really gay strawman too much, if they want to use that strawman I will apply it with other stuff to them


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    #1020
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,212 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    macyard banned

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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    #1021
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    macyard wrote: »
    Seems like gays use you don't like gay stuff you are really gay strawman too much, if they want to use that strawman I will apply it with other stuff to them

    I used to think it was a straw man, but there have been so many examples of it that it obviously isn't. Are there similar numbers of anti-paedophile activist who turn out to have paedophic tendencies? There may be some, but I can't think of any.

    More generally, just because one type of accusation turns out to based on observable events, that doesn't mean straw men don't exist. They do.


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