No contraception, no dole

rob316 · 13-01-2015 10:52am #1

Anyone else see this? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2890622/No-proof-contraception-no-dole-former-Labor-Minister-says-claiming-unemployment-benefits-not-allowed-children.html

Some former labour minister in Australia, says women should be forced to prove they are on contraception if there sole source of income is the taxpayer. Says it will discourage people to have kids they cant support which the taxpayer has to.

So basically you cant have kids if you are on social welfare.

He forgot one thing it takes two tango.

kylith · 13-01-2015 10:53am

Will the government cover the cost of the contraception?

Mr. Incognito · 13-01-2015 10:53am

Wait till the feminist movement hears this.

He will be set on fire.

DoYouEvenLift · 13-01-2015 10:54am

Trying to discourage people from having kids they can't afford to support? Sounds great to me

smash · 13-01-2015 10:54am

This whole idea is just fcuking hilarious!

chrysagon · 13-01-2015 10:55am

governemt sponsored spaying!!!!

super_furry · 13-01-2015 10:55am

Some Australian former politician says something controversial in his newspaper column. Sounds like one of those gob****es who comes out with that kind of rubbish regularly to keep himself in a job.

somesoldiers · 13-01-2015 10:55am

why not just neuter them while they're at it? Same for the blokes- they would come tops in the World Social Welfare Castrato choir competition

ColeTrain · 13-01-2015 10:55am

He is right.

There's too many on welfare having children and making it a lifestyle choice for themselves. Why should the taxpayer support this choice?

smash · 13-01-2015 10:56am

chrysagon wrote: »

governemt sponsored spaying!!!!

Free morning after pills with every dole payment. Just in case...

Dyr · 13-01-2015 10:56am

Awstrawlia really does seem to excel at producing obnoxious ballbags

DeJa VooDoo · 13-01-2015 10:56am

ColeTrain wrote: »

He is right.

There's too many on welfare having children and making it a lifestyle choice for themselves. Why should the taxpayer support this choice?

Have you got kids?

Duggy747 · 13-01-2015 10:57am

I still think we should go with my plan of turning people on the dole into Soylent Green or at least experiment on them so we can extract nutrients from them for our own benefit.

ColeTrain · 13-01-2015 10:57am

DeJa VooDoo wrote: »

Have you got kids?

14, not that it's any of your business.

CruelCoin · 13-01-2015 10:58am

Bambi wrote: »

Awstrawlia really does seem to excel at producing obnoxious ballbags

No more obnoxious than a single mother with five kids expecting me to pay her way.

Scrounging as a way of life should be made unviable.

I approve of this product and/or service.

rob316 · 13-01-2015 10:59am

I would agree there is a link but that is fairly sexist, undemocratic, inhumane and something you would get under a dictatorship.

Gatling · 13-01-2015 10:59am

It's seems to getting momentum apparently the UK are looking into similar ideas ,

As much as it sounds Rediculous maybe it's a good thing welfare shouldn't be a career choice probably be better off limiting the welfare payments to multiple kids ,get something for your first child after that your on your own

super_furry · 13-01-2015 11:00am

Hahaha, some of you lot won't be happy until the government taxes getting the ride. Sex licences for some, jail terms for others.

DoYouEvenLift · 13-01-2015 11:01am

rob316 wrote: »

I would agree there is a link but that is fairly sexist, undemocratic, inhumane and something you would get under a dictatorship.

Raising kids in borderline poverty is inhumane.

DeJa VooDoo · 13-01-2015 11:01am

ColeTrain wrote: »

14, not that it's any of your business.

I'll take that as a no then.:rolleyes:

rob316 · 13-01-2015 11:02am

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

Raising kids in borderline poverty is inhumane.

the 50" flat screen and sky dish out the front says different :pac:

DoYouEvenLift · 13-01-2015 11:03am

rob316 wrote: »

the 50" flat screen and sky dish out the front says different :pac:

How many people on the dole do you know like that?

ColeTrain · 13-01-2015 11:03am

DeJa VooDoo wrote: »

I'll take that as a no then.:rolleyes:

I'd be entitled to ask you 'do you have kids' but I don't care.

DeJa VooDoo · 13-01-2015 11:04am

"IT'S THE UNMARRIED MOTHERS WOT DID IT I TELL YA"

Soooooooo 1980's.
The more we change, the more we stay the same.

DeJa VooDoo · 13-01-2015 11:05am

ColeTrain wrote: »

I'd be entitled to ask you 'do you have kids' but I don't care.

Obviously.

kylith · 13-01-2015 11:05am

While I do think that disincentivising so-called Mickey-Money would be a good idea, I feel uncomfortable with 'no contraception, no money'. It just smacks to me a bit of getting a boot in the door regarding benefits. What would be next? Prove you don't smoke? Prove you don't buy junk food? Start to penalise low wage earners receiving benefits in the same way?

CarpeDiem85 · 13-01-2015 11:06am

Oh lovely, another thread on picking on single parents, by that I mean single mothers! There have already been changes to claiming the One Parent Family Allowance in Ireland so how you'd make bringing up children a lifestyle choice is beyond me.

13-01-2015 11:06am

CruelCoin wrote: »

No more obnoxious than a single mother with five kids expecting me to pay her way.

Scrounging as a way of life should be made unviable.

I approve of this product and/or service.

Not one mention of the male species and their responsibilities.

longshanks · 13-01-2015 11:06am

super_furry wrote: »

Hahaha, some of you lot won't be happy until the government taxes getting the ride. Sex licences for some, jail terms for others.

'The ride'

Do some people just get the one ride and that's it?

DeJa VooDoo · 13-01-2015 11:09am

kylith wrote: »

While I do think that disincentivising so-called Mickey-Money would be a good idea, I feel uncomfortable with 'no contraception, no money'. It just smacks to me a bit of getting a boot in the door regarding benefits. What would be next? Prove you don't smoke? Prove you don't buy junk food? Start to penalise low wage earners receiving benefits in the same way?

Perhaps all women should be issued with chastity belts and the keys be held by the state until they have a good education and a permanent job they can't be sacked from. (The PS comes to mind)

rob316 · 13-01-2015 11:09am

CarpeDiem85 wrote: »

Oh lovely, another thread on picking on single parents, by that I mean single mothers! There have already been changes to claiming the One Parent Family Allowance in Ireland so how you'd make bringing up children a lifestyle choice is beyond me.

Not looking to pick on any single mothers, I know plenty hard working mothers who do dads job too. Total respect for them.

Thread was more about this lunatics idea.

Tearin It Up · 13-01-2015 11:09am

They're right, if you cant afford kids, dont have them.

But if its brought in here, i have to prove im on some form of contraception. The most effective contraception is abstinence. Its on them to prove I'm whoring around.

Gatling · 13-01-2015 11:12am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Not one mention of the male species and their responsibilities.

See males can't repeatedly go to the social welfare oh look it's happened again .

We males get Single person payments we don't get Child benefit and one parent families 99% are made up of a single mother with anything from 1-7 kids

DeJa VooDoo · 13-01-2015 11:13am

Tearin It Up wrote: »

They're right, if you cant afford kids, dont have them.

What do you suggest people who's partners are deceased or were recently made redundant and had to claim lone parents allowance for their kids should do?
Hand the children over to someone else?

Day Lewin · 13-01-2015 11:14am

Treating all humans as dignified people with needs, is the hallmark of the attempt to be civilised. Judging someone for having a large family is as outrageous as compulsory sterilization.

Any one of the families that draw social welfare assistance might be there for a multitude of reasons: any one of those kids might grow up to benefit the human race. They'll be nursing us, when we get old.

"Scrounging" means an undeserving attitude: but a large family that has lost its main breadwinner IS deserving.
And the State already pay everyone's way with vaccinations and primary schooling and child benefit and and and...
and the State policing private sexual practices is an abhorrent idea. Even for Australia/.

CruelCoin · 13-01-2015 11:14am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Not one mention of the male species and their responsibilities.

It's a gender and not a species firstly.

Single fathers, single mothers, who cares? The gender mentioned doesn't change my argument of not wanting to pay someone to pop out offspring and live off my taxes.

It's a vagina, not a ****ing clown-car.

suicide_circus · 13-01-2015 11:17am

Kinda like the free hysterectomy/vasectomy for, what Joe Duffy calls, "unwell people"

Fukuyama · 13-01-2015 11:19am

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

How many people on the dole do you know like that?

To be fair, I genuinely know quite a few.

There are two types of people who claim SW.

The 80%: Lost job. Embarrassed to even claim. Budgeting like mad. Living within their means. Doing everything to get out of the hole they're in.

The 20%: The lifers. I've spoken to lads I went to school with who have been on social welfare most of their lives. They know the system better than the people behind the counter. At the very worst a few have to participate in adult employment programs, courses etc.. to continue claiming. And even then they only show up the minimum amount of time required and otherwise take the piss.

The proliferation of social welfare families with lots of high end consumer electronics is totally true. They're most often bought on credit or otherwise financed.

For example, big screen TVs can be got on finance and paid back over a few years. The people on the dole that I know all have iPhones 5/6. They're all got on 2 year bill pay contracts with **** allowances and high monthly payments.

This creates an odd situation whereby most people on the dole live within their means and generally are only one it for a reasonably short period. However, you then have people who claim the dole for YEARS while actively making really terrible personal finance decisions which further impoverish themselves. They then claim that the dole isn't enough to finance their lifestyles, which themselves are actually financed through loans, credit and other debt obligations.

It's extremely hard for working people to stomach because many can't afford nice clothes, tech items etc... and also cannot simply demand more money from their boss because they can't afford nice things.

That's how we get a sob story in The Mirror about a single mother in a council flat who can't afford a sliced pan.

listermint · 13-01-2015 11:20am

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

How many people on the dole do you know like that?

Actually a good few tbh. And no its not one of those nigerian mothers prams nonsense. 50 Inch plasma in the sitting room Sky dish on the wall set to FTA mind you but the android box streams all the shows during the day when they have their feet up.

Makes me sad.

DeJa VooDoo · 13-01-2015 11:22am

Dean0088 wrote: »

To be fair, I genuinely know quite a few.

There are two types of people who claim SW.

The 80%: Lost job. Embarrassed to even claim. Budgeting like mad. Living within their means. Doing everything to get out of the hole they're in.

The 20%: The lifers. I've spoken to lads I went to school with who have been on social welfare most of their lives. They know the system better than the people behind the counter. At the very worst a few have to participate in adult employment programs, courses etc.. to continue claiming. And even then they only show up the minimum amount of time required and otherwise take the piss.

The proliferation of social welfare families with lots of high end consumer electronics is totally true. They're most often bought on credit or otherwise financed.

For example, big screen TVs can be got on finance and paid back over a few years. The people on the dole that I know all have iPhones 5/6. They're all got on 2 year bill pay contracts with **** allowances and high monthly payments.

This creates an odd situation whereby most people on the dole live within their means and generally are only one it for a reasonably short period. However, you then have people who claim the dole for YEARS while actively making really terrible personal finance decisions which further impoverish themselves. They then claim that the dole isn't enough to finance their lifestyles, which themselves are actually financed through loans, credit and other debt obligations.

It's extremely hard for working people to stomach because many can't afford nice clothes, tech items etc... and also cannot simply demand more money from their boss because they can't afford nice things.

That's how we get a sob story in The Mirror about a single mother in a council flat who can't afford a sliced pan.

I agree with a lot of this but I'm interested in where you get the 80%/20% figure from.

VinLieger · 13-01-2015 11:23am

DeJa VooDoo wrote: »

What do you suggest people who's partners are deceased or were recently made redundant and had to claim lone parents allowance for their kids should do?
Hand the children over to someone else?

This isn't about people who have kids and then have to apply for the dole, its focusing on people who are on the dole and then choose to have kid's, two very different prospects

suicide_circus · 13-01-2015 11:23am

DeJa VooDoo wrote: »

I agree with a lot of this but I'm interested in where you get the 80%/20% figure from.

Guesstimation

DeJa VooDoo · 13-01-2015 11:26am

listermint wrote: »

Actually a good few tbh. And no its not one of those nigerian mothers prams nonsense. 50 Inch plasma in the sitting room Sky dish on the wall set to FTA mind you but the android box streams all the shows during the day when they have their feet up.

Makes me sad.

The 50" plasma does sound a bit like the 'nigerian mothers prams' TBH.
Most houses would have a flatscreen panel these days in any case I would have thought.
Plasma is old hat too, 4K UHD LCD is the way to go...

Effects · 13-01-2015 11:26am

Not the same but similar: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/jun/12/barbara-harris-sterilise-drug-addicts-alcoholics

DoYouEvenLift · 13-01-2015 11:27am

Regarding the people on the dole who still have all the latest tech and comforts, if you're close enough to know that they have all that but their children are underfed and not looked after well enough etc. I'd hope you'd report that. If someone would choose to finance a new TV or phone each week than use the money towards their kids if it was needed then they're disgraceful parents.

ColeTrain · 13-01-2015 11:27am

DeJa VooDoo wrote: »

What do you suggest people who's partners are deceased or were recently made redundant and had to claim lone parents allowance for their kids should do?
Hand the children over to someone else?

What about a single mother in her early 20's having 3 kids or more with no education or any hope of finding a career?

Look there's a balance here and nobody is attempting to brush every single parent into one category but in the extreme cases, what's wrong in suggesting that people take some responsibility?

13-01-2015 11:27am

This thread is gonna piss me off. All I am seeing is "it is the responsibility of the woman", "men can't get child benefit" (wtf?), "vaginas".

A little token sentence of "I couldnt care less if they are male or female" doesn't change the fact that opinion here is it is the females problem.

How about, the snip for all men from age 14 onwards and when they reach an acceptable income level, they get the procedure reversed? Nah, didn't think you'd go for that one.

Responsibility lies with both mother and father, equally. Sort out the stupid laws that infringe on fathers rights and hopefully the "it's her problem" mentality will die out.

DeJa VooDoo · 13-01-2015 11:28am

VinLieger wrote: »

This isn't about people who have kids and then have to apply for the dole, its focusing on people who are on the dole and then choose to have kid's, two very different prospects

Contraception isn't 100% foolproof.
Are you then suggesting that people refrain from having intercourse?

BTW, do you actually agree with what's proposed by this nutjob?

Tugboats · 13-01-2015 11:29am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

This thread is gonna piss me off. All I am seeing is "it is the responsibility of the woman", "men can't get child benefit" (wtf?), "vaginas".

A little token sentence of "I couldnt care less if they are male or female" doesn't change the fact that opinion here is it is the females problem.

How about, the snip for all men from age 14 onwards and when they reach an acceptable income level, they get the procedure reversed? Nah, didn't think you'd go for that one.

Responsibility lies with both mother and father, equally. Sort out the stupid laws that infringe on fathers rights and hopefully the "it's her problem" mentality will die out.

agree which is why there should be no such thing as child benefit. Imagine buying a dog and expecting the government to feed it:o

DeJa VooDoo · 13-01-2015 11:30am

ColeTrain wrote: »

What about a single mother in her early 20's having 3 kids or more with no education or any hope of finding a career?

Look there's a balance here and nobody is attempting to brush every single parent into one category but in the extreme cases, what's wrong in suggesting that people take some responsibility?

Absolutely.
A bit of education would be a good thing.
I'm not sure there's many young women with 3 young kids running around and no partner to help out who, if they had their time over, would do it again.

Fukuyama · 13-01-2015 11:32am

DeJa VooDoo wrote: »

I agree with a lot of this but I'm interested in where you get the 80%/20% figure from.

My own experience. Let's not go down the usual route in AH of requesting figures which simply don't exist.

It's not like the Department of Social Protection can go around to people's houses and inspect their living rooms.

I'm from a working class area, and have worked in many others around Dublin. I have old acquaintances on the dole along with extended family, some of whom spend their lives going between jail cells and social housing.

I have eyes and it's fairly obvious to see. When someone who spends every weekday in a pub, wearing a tracksuit with five days stubble is telling me about how their new Smart TV connects to the internet, I can be fairly confident in guessing that they're not paying for it in a 9-5.

I have also had numerous people actually tell me how they bounce between SW schemes or dodge the "reviews" they get called in for every six months.

It's very often routed into certain families. Little johnnie sees Mammy and Daddy sitting on their holes his entire life, so when he turns 18 he know the SW game better than most!

This country has a growing problem with long-term SW lifers who impoverish themselves. Ireland has a great SW welfare system with very generous amounts given. The UK give nothing compared to us. And yet, we still hear cries of "it's not enough".

You might claim that I'm talking through my hole here with 20% figure. But I guarantee that in my area and many others it'd be upwards of 60% of those on the dole are taking the piss. 20% would be a national average I reckon.

No contraception, no dole

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