No contraception, no dole

davidfitz22

Fantastic idea, in fact I think you should be required to have a license and be means tested before being allowed to have a child or even a second child. Single mothers get far too much money off this state.

rob316

Dean0088 wrote: »

Contraception, when used right, is pretty good at stoping babies.

Use a condom and a great deal of risk is reduced. Combined with the pill or bar or whatever other option recommended by a doctor, and you're 99.9% not going to have a kid.

Don't tell me that the majority of the thousands of unwanted kids born every year are because contraception failed. It's either stupidity or part of a plan to get pregnant.

Has there ever been a case of prosecution in Ireland due to pills ordered from Women on Web? Sure it was only a few weeks ago that dozens of women brought abortion pills into the state in full view of gardaí and media and nobody was even arrested. Cop on.

You're taking through your hole on the Ryanair thing. I just checked prices for this day next week :

Manchester, fly out Tue back Wed: €34.99 each way. So €70 euro. Say another €80 for a hotel room and €150 for the abortion (and many clinics offer discounts to people who give ROI addresses as they know the costs of travel). Throw in another €50 for a a few meals and public transport. We're talking €300 max.

Could be had for less if you come and go on the same day.

Not saying it's a solution to the problem in this thread. But abortions aren't the reserve of the rich like.

€150 for an abortion, your well misinformed sir. up to 14 weeks costs about €600, after 19 weeks its a surgical procedure that cost well over €2000. You will get a discount if you are from Ireland though.

Lux23

If children come from a family where neither parent has worked or a sole parent who relies heavily on handouts, then they should get early intervention from the age of 11 or 12, they will get special classes where they are taught the value of staying in school and attending third level. Break the cycle of generations surviving on welfare and going nowhere with their lives. This suggestion by some dopey Australian politician seems completely unworkable anyway, as well as being sexist and inhumane. Just because you're unemployed doesn't mean you can be treated like vermin.

davidfitz22

Tasden wrote: »

Not sure why people are making this into a single mothers issue. It was about people on social welfare who can't afford more kids. People who are in a relationship or married and on jobseekers or any other type of payment fall under that category too.

Because most single mothers aren't single if you know what i mean. they can make a comfortable living on allowances and some don't even raise their kids their mothers raise the kids while they reap the benefits

mynamejeff

kylith wrote: »

Will the government cover the cost of the contraception?

im sure they already do

Fukuyama

Tasden wrote: »

Not sure why people are making this into a single mothers issue. It was about people on social welfare who can't afford more kids. People who are in a relationship or married and on jobseekers or any other type of payment fall under that category too.

Because most people don't have a problem with families with at least one parent who has been in employment for a decent period of time. If that breadwinner loses his/her job then it's only fair that they be entitled to some help. After all, they paid into the pot as a kind of insurance for their family.

The main problem is people stratagizing and planning their family based off what kind of welfare bumps they'll get. Very often, these people never pay into the pot and never will.

Roger Hassenforder

Lux23 wrote: »

If children come from a family where neither parent has worked or a sole parent who relies heavily on handouts, then they should early intervention from the age of 11 or 12, they will get special classes where they are thought the value of staying in school and attending third level. Break the cycle of generations surviving on welfare and going nowhere with their lives. This suggestion by some dopey Australian politician seems completely unworkable anyway, as well as being sexist and inhumane. Just because you're unemployed doesn't mean you can be treated like vermin.

I see your point, but why stay in school, goto college, get a job when you'd be better off on the dole.

darkpagandeath

VinLieger wrote: »

Your post makes no sense in an Irish context as you are accusing Irish TD's of making these claims and proposing this solution when absolutely none have

Fair enough I'm sure you will be telling all the other posters who mentioned any Irish context they are wrong also.

I am trying to think.. Has any Irish politician ever gone on about the dole... Hmmm Sorry my bad that has never ever happened here.

Fukuyama

mynamejeff wrote: »

im sure they already do

I've heard of free condoms being dispensed in schools now. Along with GPs offices and other similar locations.

Also, contraception is a responsibility for an individual. If you're going to have sex you shouldn't need to involve the government. Any adult knows that creating a human life is a huge deal and can happen due to sex.

I've never once thought of contraception as anything other than a matter for personal responsibility and something you just have to do in order to have sex.

Fukuyama

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I am trying to think.. Has any Irish politician ever gone on about the dole... Hmmm Sorry my bad that has never ever happened here.

You're basically saying that our elected politicians aren't allowed to discuss social welfare because of the 2007-10 crisis/bailout. It's idiotic.

darkpagandeath

Dean0088 wrote: »

I've heard of free condoms being dispensed in schools now. Along with GPs offices and other similar locations.

Also, contraception is a responsibility for an individual. If you're going to have sex you shouldn't need to involve the government. Any adult knows that creating a human life is a huge deal and can happen due to sex.

I've never once thought of contraception as anything other than a matter for personal responsibility and something you just have to do in order to have sex.

Something something burn in hell, Guilt trip sex is dirty...

Tasden

Dean0088 wrote: »

Because most people don't have a problem with families with at least one parent who has been in employment for a decent period of time. If that breadwinner loses his/her job then it's only fair that they be entitled to some help. After all, they paid into the pot as a kind of insurance for their family.

The main problem is people stratagizing and planning their family based off what kind of welfare bumps they'll get. Very often, these people never pay into the pot and never will.

So single mothers by their very nature have never worked and paid into the same pot no?
Many families have two parents who never worked. And many single mothers were once part of a family unit where one or both of them worked and now are unable to work as they are the sole carer of the children.

kjl

kylith wrote: »

Will the government cover the cost of the contraception?

pretty sure they already do.

VinLieger

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Fair enough I'm sure you will be telling all the other posters who mentioned any Irish context they are wrong also.

I am trying to think.. Has any Irish politician ever gone on about the dole... Hmmm Sorry my bad that has never ever happened here.

No cus theirs make sense as arguing and discussing whether we have the same problems here is completely different to accusing Irish politicians of proposing the same solutions that have been made by ONE person in Australia.

Of course Irish politicians have made comments in the past on the dole but none in this specific context which again was what you were suggesting.

BeerWolf

Soon to do what India does... that 'voluntary' sterilisation for cash.

darkpagandeath

Dean0088 wrote: »

You're basically saying that our elected politicians aren't allowed to discuss social welfare because of the 2007-10 crisis/bailout. It's idiotic.

No, I'm saying Welfare had nothing to do with the crash. So going on about welfare rates now that have not gone up is idiotic.

Can you guess why there are lots of people on the dole now ? It's not the level of dole payment that is the issue.

mynamejeff

I seem to recall condoms being handed out in the students union in WIT many many years ago.

to be fair i m sure we all know some people who shouldn't have been allowed to conceive children as they lack the personal responsibility to look after them selfs never mind another person.

care homes across the county are proof enough of that .

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Too right. Reproducing isn't a "right". Food, warmth, shelter and being happy are rights that all children have, and parents not bothering their backside to try provide for their family because they're relying on everyone else to fund their life style shouldn't be encouraged to bring children into poverty

CarpeDiem85

As was already mentioned on this thread and it's been suggested and will probably be brought in the UK, I would like to see parents paying maintenance at source. When I say parents, I mean the guys mostly and mothers who do a runner, never to be heard of again. The money should be automatically taken out of their payslip/social welfare. If this doesn't happen, then it would affect their credit rating going forward. I'm sick to death of the mothers always having to pick up the flack and all single mothers being tarred with the same brush. I think there has to be accountability on both sides. Not all single parents want to claim the OPFA but have no choice in some cases. Yes, there are those who have lots of children young but in a way society failed them. I worked with lots of these young girls and I don't think a lot of them do it because of the money, I think it's more they want a family and someone to love. A purpose in life as such.

Fukuyama

rob316 wrote: »

€150 for an abortion, your well misinformed sir. up to 14 weeks costs about €600, after 19 weeks its a surgical procedure that cost well over €2000. You will get a discount if you are from Ireland though.

Fair enough. I have up to 9 weeks for €300 here though.

Nevertheless, in an emergency even hard pressed individuals could ask family for assistance. If that's not an option (I'd imagine many in Ireland would never want to tell a soul) then I feel bad for them, however they've really only got themselves to blame (except for rape, obviously).

Contraception in 2015 is widely available, cheap and pretty damn good. If you're not using it then don't have full sex and stick to oral or other methods.

worded

We have the highest child care fees in the world in ireland.
Fine if you a surgeon etc you can afford to have a few kids in crèche.

The middle class's (working poor) are effectively financially castrated

The only people who can have large famalies are the irresponsible and the rich.

There should be a disincentive to having baby after baby if neither you or your partner(s) are not or have never worked.

It's darwanism on its head. The Sucessful couples can't afford to have more than one kid because they pay for the unsuccessful ones to have as many as they choose. This is while paying huge childcare fees to go to work, the highest fees in the world.

Grab All Association

That whoopsy moderator will lock this. Its alright to post a dole bashing thread yet nothing is said about "lone parents". Nenagh or Templemore Town Council (can't remember which one) did an inspection of their housing stock a couple of years ago and found that the majority of single tenants had their drug dealing boyfriends living with them without declaring it to be the council and DSP.

I think child benefit should also be paid in vouchers to those on loan parent who have no contributions payed to the state (remember Centra child benefit drink deals also its not for car insurance or provident personal credit loans) also higher rates for those who have paid the most so the more you have paid the more you get back.

Lone parents should be forced on to JSA or BTEA whatever when the child reaches the age of 4. Now most spongers would go out and get pregnant as soon as they can but there's a way to curb this. Lets say Sharon Curley has baby number 1. Give her child benefit up until the baby reaches the age of 4 years but not allow another claim for a second baby for another 2 years.

The best thing is just to legalize abortion so the DSP can turn around to the skangers and say well why didn't you abort the baby and close the curtain on them.

zcorpian88

He's right really, lot of people out there procreating carelessly and then get handed extra benefits and the keys to a nicer house than my own off some ballbag parish pump TD looking for an extra vote.

Where's my house on subsidized rent? I'll be f**king waiting since I'm single and childless, stuck living at home like a complete tit.

darkpagandeath

Chris___ wrote: »

That whoopsy moderator will lock this. Its alright to post a dole bashing thread yet nothing is said about "lone parents". Nenagh or Templemore Town Council (can't remember which one) did an inspection of their housing stock a couple of years ago and found that the majority of single tenants had their drug dealing boyfriends living with them without declaring it to be the council and DSP.

I think child benefit should also be paid in vouchers to those on loan parent who have no contributions payed to the state (remember Centra child benefit drink deals also its not for car insurance or provident personal credit loans) also higher rates for those who have paid the most so the more you have paid the more you get back.

Lone parents should be forced on to JSA or BTEA whatever when the child reaches the age of 4. Now most spongers would go out and get pregnant as soon as they can but there's a way to curb this. Lets say Sharon Curley has baby number 1. Give her child benefit up until the baby reaches the age of 4 years but not allow another claim for a second baby for another 2 years.

The best thing is just to legalize abortion so the DSP can turn around to the skangers and say well why didn't you abort the baby and close the curtain on them.

Err if they all have drug dealing boyfriends why are they on the Social ?

Hear that whoops, this is all you fault. What did you invent those wombs for, goddess that you are 😄

mynamejeff

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Err if they all have drug dealing boyfriends why are they on the Social ?

ever hear of a tipp person turning down free money ?

ancapailldorcha

worded wrote: »

We have the highest child care fees in the world in ireland.

No you don't. Close, but not quite:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/may/21/child-care-costs-compared-britain

worded wrote: »

It's darwanism on its head. The Sucessful couples can't afford to have more than one kid because they pay for the unsuccessful ones to have as many as they choose. This is while paying huge childcare fees to go to work, the highest fees in the world.

The successful couples in this scenario are likely to be engaged in full time work, both of them and having a child is therefore a meticulously thought out process for them. I've a mate back in Donegal who's on FT SW with his missus. She's just had their first kid which was conceived because he couldn't be arsed walking 30 seconds to the local shop for condoms. I'm not saying that this is representative of the lower class of course. The government need to actually make sure it's worth it to be employed. The UK is rife with zero-hour contracts and minuscule wages topped up by tax credits but that's another discussion.

worded

worded wrote: »

There should be a disincentive to having baby after baby if neither you or your partner(s) are not or have never worked.

The most shocking thing about threads like this are the massive proportion of posters who think that the above is wrong. I mean, what the ****. What planet are some people on? Not planet taxpayer, I know that much.

DeJa VooDoo

yipeeeee wrote: »

Sorry my mistake.

It's the highest.

Don't forget to mention that it's down from 6.2% of births to under 20 year olds to 2.3% though, eh.

Where does it say it's the highest in Europe?

You might need to read that again.

Debtocracy

worded wrote: »

It's darwanism on its head. The Sucessful couples can't afford to have more than one kid because they pay for the unsuccessful ones to have as many as they choose. This is while paying huge childcare fees to go to work, the highest fees in the world.

I demand forced sterilization for all those who reference evolutionary theory inappropriately