And it begins... (bigot brigade anti-SSM leaflets) - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post ###

Baggy Trousers · 05-01-2015 10:29PM

Calhoun wrote: »

That leaflet is hilarious, don't know about any of you guys but regardless of sexual orientation hearing your parents having sex is not something and child regardless of age wants to hear.

Think the only answer is to ban sex, we need to go to a future demolition man type of virtual sex so the kids won't be harmed.

Artificial insemination for all.

You mean we should all be celibate? Is that the official church line now?

mrsbyrne · 05-01-2015 10:30PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I've heard of these studies but havent yet have time to read them or how they draw conclusions on children of homosexual couples doing just as well as those as hetreosexual couples. Like its one thing to survey adopted kids when they're older and check how they did education wise, career wise, etc and come to the conclusion that everyone does the same. But I'm wondering do these these surveys ever look at minute details like two gay men raising a young girl and how well equipped they are at understanding her perspective as she goes through puberty, chnages in her body, hormone levels, attention from boys and (inevitably) dissappointment from boys, all those things that mothers have been dealing with for years. Thats the part I'm unsure of, I'm not saying that a two male gays can never manage such a child but it does appear to me that they are at a distinct disadvantage over a maternal influence who herself has gone through all the things a teenage girl will and therefore has a unique perspective that two gay males do not. I think psychologists would call it tacit knowledge, i.e. its the things a woman knows from her experience of being a woman.

Thats the part I'm not sure of. As stated before I'm not against the idea of gay couples adopting, I'm more so interested in being sure that adoption takes place from a child-centric point of view and it is always the childs best interests that are at the heart of it, not the couples, irrespective of their sexuality.

I know where your coming from but millions of girls are raised by single dads because for whatever reason the mam is totally off the scene. There always some Aunt cousin neighbour around to deal with the "ladies only" stuff. I cant imagine a male gay couple without a whole posse of galpals to fulfill this role

bodice ripper · 05-01-2015 10:31PM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Im not a dude.
It's a tenet. Tenants rent property.
Here, read up about the tenets. No stoning.

http://www.beginningcatholic.com/tenets-of-catholicism.html

Dude is an all purpose term as far as I am concerned. And you will have to blame auto correct for tenants.

And I was basing what I said on the Bible.

So no, I won't be crying salt tears for some religious nuts (no, not all of them are nuts, but a sizeable chunk, including the authors of the leaflet being discussed) being described as thick. For **** sake, you can still fire someone for being gay if you have a religious ethos here! The butthurtedness over the word thick is hilarious.

Deenie123 · 05-01-2015 10:32PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I've heard of these studies but havent yet have time to read them or how they draw conclusions on children of homosexual couples doing just as well as those as hetreosexual couples. Like its one thing to survey adopted kids when they're older and check how they did education wise, career wise, etc and come to the conclusion that everyone does the same. But I'm wondering do these these surveys ever look at minute details like two gay men raising a young girl and how well equipped they are at understanding her perspective as she goes through puberty, chnages in her body, hormone levels, attention from boys and (inevitably) dissappointment from boys, all those things that mothers have been dealing with for years. Thats the part I'm unsure of, I'm not saying that a two male gays can never manage such a child but it does appear to me that they are at a distinct disadvantage over a maternal influence who herself has gone through all the things a teenage girl will and therefore has a unique perspective that two gay males do not. I think psychologists would call it tacit knowledge, i.e. its the things a woman knows from her experience of being a woman.

Thats the part I'm not sure of. As stated before I'm not against the idea of gay couples adopting, I'm more so interested in being sure that adoption takes place from a child-centric point of view and it is always the childs best interests that are at the heart of it, not the couples, irrespective of their sexuality.

I think there are lots of single mums raising sons, and single dads raising daughters out there. I've never heard of children being negatively affected because their parent is of the opposite gender.

As far as being able to understand what the daughter is going through during puberty/teenage years... I think two people who are likely to have had a harder than normal puberty are probably quite well placed to be sympathetic!

Pwindedd · 05-01-2015 10:35PM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

I know where your coming from but millions of girls are raised by single dads because for whatever reason the mam is totally off the scene. There always some Aunt cousin neighbour around to deal with the "ladies only" stuff. I cant imagine a male gay couple without a whole posse of galpals to fulfill this role

Totally agree with this, but you put it way more succinctly than I could have. I've a daughter and I raised her myself for the first 6 years. Lots of male influence though, dad, brother, male friends, teachers etc. very similar circumstances in fact to a lesbian couple raising a child.

The Beatles had it right. All you need is love.

Baggy Trousers · 05-01-2015 10:39PM

Pwindedd wrote: »

The Beatles had it right. All you need is love.

porsche boy · 05-01-2015 10:40PM

is it still ok for the wife my special birthday treat or is that bad aswell now?

efb · 05-01-2015 10:47PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Evidence?????

GOOD CHRISTIAN
CHRIST
LUKE 12:12
HOLY SPIRIT
CHRISTIANS
CONSIENCE
SACRAMENT
OUR LORD
GODS WORD
UNHOLY
CHRISTIAN

there you go with your evidence! Blind faith ftw

Annasopra · 05-01-2015 10:47PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'm not 100% convinced either way. Mainly because I haven't heard any debate on gay adoption, none has occured whatsoever so I'm not fully informed.

However a family member made the point that when it comes to adoption the only consideration should be that of the best interests of the child, the interests of the couple trying to adopt are secondary to the equation, be that couple homosexual or hetreosexual. If it is the case that children are better served by having a male and a female influence in their life then it is in the childs best interests that they have both a male and a female influence. For my sibling this isn't about denying gay couples rights, its about doing whats best for children who are up for adoption. I guess its not that much different to a single parent trying to adopt- the parent might be the perfect parent but most people would agree that its in the childs best interests to have two parents where possible. In the case of adoption demand outweighs supply so it should always be possible to find two parents for an adoptee.

Anyway I just think there has been a total lack of debate on the issue. Gay marriage brings rights for gay adoption yet I haven't heard any pro or anti arguments to this in advance of the referendum thus far. I'm sure there are many voters who are pro-SSM but might have differing opinions on adoption.

Thats interesting.

Theres a few things that need to be cleared up firstly though.

Single people can adopt under current law as can gay people. There is no current ban on gay people adopting.

Secondly the government has already made it clear that it will bring in laws to enable civil partnered or cohabiting couples to be eligible jointly to adopt a
child before the referendum so regardless of the referendum result adoption for gay couples will be legal anyway.

Firstly I think your relative is correct. The best interests of the child should always come first.

The thing is the OVERWHELMING evidence on parenting has been positive.

The American Paediatric Association has said

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/131/4/e1374.short

Extensive data available from more than 30 years of research reveal that children raised by gay and lesbian parents have demonstrated resilience with regard to social, psychological, and sexual health despite economic and legal disparities and social stigma. Many studies have demonstrated that children's well-being is affected much more by their relationships with their parents, their parents' sense of competence and security, and the presence of social and economic support for the family than by the gender or the sexual orientation of their parents. Lack of opportunity for same-gender couples to marry adds to families’ stress, which affects the health and welfare of all household members. Because marriage strengthens families and, in so doing, benefits children’s development, children should not be deprived of the opportunity for their parents to be married.

I believe they are right. I believe Conor Prendergast and Christine Irwin Murphy should have grown up and had rights to legal relationships with BOTH of their parents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM2oPz_rslc

mrsbyrne · 05-01-2015 10:48PM

bodice ripper wrote: »

Dude is an all purpose term as far as I am concerned. And you will have to blame auto correct for tenants.

And I was basing what I said on the Bible.

So no, I won't be crying salt tears for some religious nuts (no, not all of them are nuts, but a sizeable chunk, including the authors of the leaflet being discussed) being described as thick. For **** sake, you can still fire someone for being gay if you have a religious ethos here! The butthurtedness over the word thick is hilarious.

It's not my fault that you didn't know the the difference between the tenets of RCC and the Bible.if you set out to mock and scorn you really should be sure of your main points.

hotmail.com · 05-01-2015 10:55PM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

I know where your coming from but millions of girls are raised by single dads because for whatever reason the mam is totally off the scene. There always some Aunt cousin neighbour around to deal with the "ladies only" stuff. I cant imagine a male gay couple without a whole posse of galpals to fulfill this role

The Church was great on telling girls about periods and sex.

But seriously, knowledge of these "ladies only" stuff as you put it and how to deal with it with your daughters, depends on the person, not the gender. Some mothers/fathers won't talk about sex with their children still for example. Two gay men might actually be better, dare I say it, with dealing with these matters with their daughters and their sons.

Baggy Trousers · 05-01-2015 10:56PM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Who is distributing these leaflets?

Did we get an answer to this question? You'd have to imagine they are the most gullible people in Ireland. I wonder are they getting paid to distribute this stuff.

endacl · 05-01-2015 10:57PM

That shower should fire their graphic designer. The leaflet implies that sodomy sounds like a big bell.

Now, where's the only place I hear big bells on a twice daily basis...?

Baggy Trousers · 05-01-2015 10:59PM

endacl wrote: »

That shower should fire their graphic designer. The leaflet implies that sodomy sounds like a big bell.

Now, where's the only place I hear big bells on a twice daily basis...?

I thought it was a bell too but I see now it's a lampshade.

dr.bollocko · 05-01-2015 11:03PM

I've yet to hear an argument against marriage equality that does not come from a place of ignorance. This nonsense belongs in the past and not in our bleedin mailbox.

Trending on reddit. And Twitter. http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/2req2t/this_is_exactly_why_i_have_been_dreading_the/

Baggy Trousers · 05-01-2015 11:10PM

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I've yet to hear an argument against marriage equality that does not come from a place of ignorance. This nonsense belongs in the past and not in our bleedin mailbox.

Trending on reddit. And Twitter. http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/2req2t/this_is_exactly_why_i_have_been_dreading_the/

To be honest it's probably a good thing. It will galvanise a yes vote and prevent apathy about what some see is foregone conclusion. Remember Enda is debating for a Yes vote

.

I work with old people (65+) in a voluntary capacity and you'd be surprised how many of them would be "behind the times" on issues like this.

mrsbyrne · 05-01-2015 11:35PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

The Church was great on telling girls about periods and sex.

But seriously, knowledge of these "ladies only" stuff as you put it and how to deal with it with your daughters, depends on the person, not the gender. Some mothers/fathers won't talk about sex with their children still for example. Two gay men might actually be better, dare I say it, with dealing with these matters with their daughters and their sons.

Firstly you seem to have a thing about the Church?! Whats that about?
Secondly I would safely say that the periods tampons towels mooncup heavy flow light flow disposal of sanitary .protection, pain management PMT chat would definitely be more authentic coming from a woman as men, even gay men, simply cannot claim to have any personal experience in this matter, no?For example a man cannot physically demonstrate tampon insertion.

bodice ripper · 05-01-2015 11:36PM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

It's not my fault that you didn't know the the difference between the tenets of RCC and the Bible.if you set out to mock and scorn you really should be sure of your main points.

I didn't think catholic tenets superseded the Bible. That would make the religion even harder to take seriously.

What I am out to mock and scorn? My grandmother is a staunch catholic, and I worship the very ground she walks on. But even she knows that some ultra-religious people are ****ing thick. The people who are distributing this leaflet are ****ing thick. We are talking about the people who wrote this leaflet. These religious people are thick.

And speaking as someone subjected to the rather charming things nuns/teachers/priests have had to say about people like me when I was growing up, it is very hard to take religious people seriously when they complain about name calling.

It's not the pro-ssm side dragging catholicism into the debate - the church is doing that by sticking its oar in. I assure you, the yes side would prefer religion didn't come into it at all...

bodice ripper · 05-01-2015 11:38PM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Firstly you seem to have a thing about the Church?! Whats that about?
Secondly I would safely say that the periods tampons towels mooncup heavy flow light flow disposal of sanitary .protection, pain management PMT chat would definitely be more authentic coming from a woman as men, even gay men, simply cannot claim to have any personal experience in this matter, no?For example a man cannot physically demonstrate tampon insertion.

Who the **** ever needed a physical demonstration of that?

eviltwin · 05-01-2015 11:41PM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Firstly you seem to have a thing about the Church?! Whats that about?
Secondly I would safely say that the periods tampons towels mooncup heavy flow light flow disposal of sanitary .protection, pain management PMT chat would definitely be more authentic coming from a woman as men, even gay men, simply cannot claim to have any personal experience in this matter, no?For example a man cannot physically demonstrate tampon insertion.

I've never had to demonstrate to my daughter how to insert a tampon. No one showed me either. It's only a tampon, hardly rocket science.

mrsbyrne · 05-01-2015 11:43PM

bodice ripper wrote: »

Who the **** ever needed a physical demonstration of that?

One great girl gave my daughter and all her pals a demo. These girls these days are no shrinking violets.

Deenie123 · 05-01-2015 11:46PM

I'd have died of mortification if my mother gave a demonstration of how to insert a tampon! Cripes!

Timberrrrrrrr · 05-01-2015 11:46PM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Firstly you seem to have a thing about the Church?! Whats that about?
Secondly I would safely say that the periods tampons towels mooncup heavy flow light flow disposal of sanitary .protection, pain management PMT chat would definitely be more authentic coming from a woman as men, even gay men, simply cannot claim to have any personal experience in this matter, no?For example a man cannot physically demonstrate tampon insertion.

A priest knows **** all about marraige but try getting married without going to marriage classes run by them.

http://www.together.ie/speakers.php

Annasopra · 05-01-2015 11:47PM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

One great girl gave my daughter and all her pals a demo. These girls these days are no shrinking violets.

Ok but is it specifically needed?

Deenie123 · 05-01-2015 11:49PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Ok but is it specifically needed?

Absolutely not. The instruction leaflet that comes with them is more than adequate!

mrsbyrne is clutching at straws.

lazygal · 05-01-2015 11:49PM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Firstly you seem to have a thing about the Church?! Whats that about?
Secondly I would safely say that the periods tampons towels mooncup heavy flow light flow disposal of sanitary .protection, pain management PMT chat would definitely be more authentic coming from a woman as men, even gay men, simply cannot claim to have any personal experience in this matter, no?For example a man cannot physically demonstrate tampon insertion.

I was never shown how to insert a tampon by a physical demonstration.

lazygal · 05-01-2015 11:50PM

Oh and I'll be telling my son about menstruation as well as telling my daughter. Why wouldn't boys be told about it?

Fr_Dougal · 05-01-2015 11:51PM

Speaking as a Catholic priest, I'm looking forward to same sex marriage being legalised in this country.

lazygal · 05-01-2015 11:51PM

Deenie123 wrote: »

Absolutely not. The instruction leaflet that comes with them is more than adequate!

mrsbyrne is clutching at straws.

Clutching at tampons, more like.

bodice ripper · 05-01-2015 11:51PM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

One great girl gave my daughter and all her pals a demo. These girls these days are no shrinking violets.

And you are worried having dad explain it to you would be weird.

And it begins... (bigot brigade anti-SSM leaflets) - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post ###

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