ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

Kermit.de.frog · 17-11-2014 01:58PM

I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form

Tony EH wrote: »

What the fück are you talking about.

Where did I mention Gerry Adams?

Jesus Christ...absolute clownish nonsense.

:pac:

SF are putting themselves forward as the alternative. Therefore who should educate yourself as to their policies if you are talking about alternatives. Because that is the alternative.

BoJack Horseman · 17-11-2014 01:59PM

I would like Irish Water as a company to be restructured

emo72 wrote: »

Not everyone that doesn't support FG FF LAB is a communist.

It's all that's left.

And yes, the IW startup cost was/is €180m.

€240m was spent last year on water repair/improvement by the government.

Scrap IW..... spend that €180m cash...... 9-12 months later.... Back to square 1, underfunded service.

No one can see the bigger picture.

Tony EH · 17-11-2014 02:00PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

SF are putting themselves forward as the alternative. Therefore who should educate yourself as to their policies if you are talking about alternatives. Because that is the alternative.

Go way. You're in your own world lad.

You're not even having the same conversation for gods sake.

Kermit.de.frog · 17-11-2014 02:04PM

I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form

Tony EH wrote: »

Go way. You're in your own world lad.

You're not even having the same conversation for gods sake.

If you protest vote at the next election you could easily have a SF led government. You can't abstain yourself of responsibility just because you did not vote for them. And I see you are trying to avoid it. You talk about change but when I put the only viable change to you as the current numbers stack up all we get is evasion.

So on the one hand you want the government to create the circumstances for more jobs and yet on the other the only real change that you speak of comes from the left in the Dáil and their policies would do the exact opposite.

Which is it? You either want change or you don't.

tayto lover · 17-11-2014 02:05PM

Phoebas wrote: »

The Minister in charge of Irish Water received a bomb threat today.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/bomb-threat-made-to-environment-minister-alan-kelly-30750234.html

Yeah so did I

AudreyHepburn · 17-11-2014 02:07PM

I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form

niallo27 wrote: »

That's fair enough but your posts seem to very anti anti-water protests even against the thousands of peaceful protesters.

I've said on several occasions that people have a right to protest and I have no problems with them doing so.

My objection is to thuggery and violence. It's uncalled for and does no-one any favors.

Please read my posts again and stop reading into them what is't there.

Leroy42 · 17-11-2014 02:07PM

This climb down by the government will be aimed at getting round the current problems but as I see it makes them look even weaker.

Either they believe that we need to pay for water or they don't. Either they beleive that we need UW, and the revenue generated to support it, to maintain & improve our water infrastruce or they don't.

Who signed off on the original plans and what now for them that their ideas have been cast aside? This will be sold as the government listening to people, but what it really is is that the people involved made a major mess of things and should be held to account.

Can J Tierney now continue to lead IW given that the plans he signed up have now been torn up?

Working off some very rough numbers, if the average prior to this was €248 and going to raise 370m, then reducing the income to say 150 would result in a revnue of only 225m, where is the shortfall of 145m going to come from?

How does this effect the financial projections of IW? Surely, with 145m less income a year (nearly 40%) they need to radically review their operating model. Will we see vast redundancies now, massive cut-back in the maintenance? How will this effect IW ability to attract investment (the much cited off-balance sheet plan)? What is the plan for all those with a water meter? What about those people who bought rain water collectors etc based on conserving water who now have wasted the money?

Why should a group of 6 students sharing a house get to pay the same about as our family of only two adults?

Cantona's Collars · 17-11-2014 02:10PM

I agree with metered water charges

The other thread on this has one poster claiming that our general taxation will rise if IW is abolished,a load of bollix.The government are raking in a fortune from USC which is now taken as a permanent tax despite being promised as temporary to dig us out of recession,in truth they don't need a water tax-USC is more than capable of funding water treatment & provision.

Kermit.de.frog · 17-11-2014 02:13PM

I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form

zerks wrote: »

The other thread on this has one poster claiming that our general taxation will rise if IW is abolished,a load of bollix.The government are raking in a fortune from USC which is now taken as a permanent tax despite being promised as temporary to dig us out of recession,in truth they don't need a water tax-USC is more than capable of funding water treatment & provision.

That is simply not true.

The idea here is to take water expenditure away from the government's balance sheet and thus free up at least half a billion euro extra for tax cuts in the next budget.

The government should be making this point clear and simple because it is an excellent reason but they have failed to do that.

Tony EH · 17-11-2014 02:15PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If you protest vote at the next election you could easily have a SF led government. You can't abstain yourself of responsibility just because you did not vote for them. And I see you are trying to avoid it. You talk about change but when I put the only viable change to you as the current numbers stack up all we get is evasion.

So on the one hand you want the government to create the circumstances for more jobs and yet on the other the only real change that you speak of comes from the left in the Dáil and their policies would do the exact opposite.

Which is it? You either want change or you don't.

Ahem...This is my post below:

Tony EH wrote: »

However, you and the people who think like you, in your eagerness to make people "suffer" will condemn 100,000's to the same suffering. People, who in the vast, vast amount of cases find themselves in receipt of social welfare payments through no fault of their own.

You know, I've know a lot of people with your mentality, they were all "cut the dole" blah, blah, during the boom years and then when the down turn happened and they lost their jobs, they ended up on the dole they were calling for reductions in previously.

They all STFU pretty quickly.

If this country went some way to providing sustainable work for its population, there wouldn't be a need for a welfare system.

But, it doesn't so there is and by and large it's needed by people who never intended to be there in the first place.

I've mentioned nothing about Sinn Fein or Gerry Adams.

Do try to keep up, there's a good fellow.

reprazant · 17-11-2014 02:18PM

zerks wrote: »

The other thread on this has one poster claiming that our general taxation will rise if IW is abolished,a load of bollix.The government are raking in a fortune from USC which is now taken as a permanent tax despite being promised as temporary to dig us out of recession,in truth they don't need a water tax-USC is more than capable of funding water treatment & provision.

You do realise that the government is borrowing around a billion a month to make up the shortfall between spending and tax receipts? Whatever 'fortune' they are taking in from USC is being making up a small part of what is being spent each week.

Cantona's Collars · 17-11-2014 02:19PM

I agree with metered water charges

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

That is simply not true.

The idea here is to take water expenditure away from the government's balance sheet and thus free up at least half a billion euro extra for tax cuts in the next budget.

The government should be making this point clear and simple because it is an excellent reason but they have failed to do that.

So you'd prefer their game of smoke & mirrors with the nation's finances than actual sensible spending of OUR money.

I proposed a simple solution for paying for services using "bonus funds" rather than extra taxation.

Cantona's Collars · 17-11-2014 02:22PM

I agree with metered water charges

reprazant wrote: »

You do realise that the government is borrowing around a billion a month to make up the shortfall between spending and tax receipts? Whatever 'fortune' they are taking in from USC is being making up a small part of what is being spent each week.

So ever rising tax receipts are magically disappearing? I'd love to meet their accountants.Figures being quoted then changed to suit the situation,very creative.

My name is URL · 17-11-2014 02:22PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

€76,000,000 spent on consultancy fees for the setting up of IW and look at where we are today.

It's interesting that those going on about how we need more revenue generation don't seem to have much of a problem with all the waste.

gandalf · 17-11-2014 02:26PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

My name is URL wrote: »

€76,000,000 spent on consultancy fees for the setting up of IW and look at where we are today.

It's interesting that those going on about how we need more revenue generation don't seem to have much of a problem with all the waste.

Precisely, I see a figure also bandied about of €450 Million to install the meters. Surely it would have made more sense to fix the major leaks first and then come in with the whole setup process of Water Charges?

I think that would have been far more palatable for the general population than what has actually transpired. In actuality the Government have set up another quango populated at senior management level by the very people who have been unable to sort out our water delivery services at county council level!!

Banjo String · 17-11-2014 02:27PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Is Kermit a journalist for the Indo?

Can't go two sentences without making an SF reference.

Tony EH · 17-11-2014 02:27PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

gandalf wrote: »

Precisely, I see a figure also bandied about of €450 Million to install the meters. Surely it would have made more sense to fix the major leaks first and then come in with the whole setup process of Water Charges?

I think that would have been far more palatable for the general population than what has actually transpired. In actuality the Government have set up another quango populated at senior management level by the very people who have been unable to sort out our water delivery services at county council level!!

Irish Water isn't about "fixing leaks" though.

listermint · 17-11-2014 02:28PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

listermint wrote: »

I could spend half an hour constructing a well nuanced post about how water is funded currently. I could draw comparisons with our VRT Vat collections in comparison to other EU States as people are at pains to compare our non dirext payment in comparisons.

I could run through the history of a well connected business man who managed to pick up one of the largest utility contractors in the country at a song same company who owed you and me hundreds of millions of Euro. I could dicuss the closed system of the tendor for install and maintenance.

I could speak to the appointment of newly retired County managers to an organisation charged with oversight of maintenance and collection of this utility. Same County managers who have option to retire with massive pensions but apparently only jumping when a new guaranteed position opened up in a hefty new semistate.

I could talk endlessly on the board appointments, I could discuss the reuse of a meter kit that was end of lifed in another EU state for various reasons to do with the nature of the material and operation of the equipment.

There are many other items that I could discuss and point out that are all factual and thread related but ultimately none of this matters because you and those that join your style of posting are not here to dicuss you are here to obfuscate the discussion, that as has been shown by your post style. Perhaps it is your role in the thread and I can deal with that. But don't try to dress it up as anythjng else. Id respect you more if you just owned up.

Or you could step up to the line and actually address the posters who are giving you legitimate complaints concerns and facts

I posted this again, because it seems like the enforcers are back in play this monday morning. Rather that being bullish about water balloons, and throwing people around the place and tools with a brick in their hands.

Address the points above, Address the points as to why 1/4 Million people have taken to the streets.

People are unhappy, and dont dare disregard their issue as being as single track minded as PPS numbers.

Its bigger than that, it is about being taken for fools. All of us. Fools. Waste after waste after waste.

And if the shills, yes i said it shills on here think that their money that they will pump into IW will be safe from the historical and preexisting waste well they will be sadly disappointed. There is no precedent for spending wisely within this country for efficiency.

The people on the streets are trying their best to lay down a benchmark for accountability. Its about time the back benchers took up that mantle.

Address the post above, or squabble about semantics of anarchy of which there as been none in the country to date.

Tony EH · 17-11-2014 02:29PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Banjo String wrote: »

Is Kermit a journalist for the Indo?

Can't go two sentences without making an SF reference.

He wouldn't last five minutes as a journalist for any paper if he cannot follow the basic thrust of somebody's point.

Little CuChulainn · 17-11-2014 02:30PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

gandalf wrote: »

Precisely, I see a figure also bandied about of €450 Million to install the meters. Surely it would have made more sense to fix the major leaks first and then come in with the whole setup process of Water Charges?

I think that would have been far more palatable for the general population than what has actually transpired. In actuality the Government have set up another quango populated at senior management level by the very people who have been unable to sort out our water delivery services at county council level!!

Can you outline how you would locate these leaks? Stick a camera down every pipe in the country? The meters will help identify the areas that require the most urgent work.

listermint · 17-11-2014 02:32PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Can you outline how you would locate these leaks? Stick a camera down every pipe in the country? The meters will help identify the areas that require the most urgent work.

You think they dont have a good idea where alot of them are, There is major works required and these are known areas to be addressed.

reprazant · 17-11-2014 02:32PM

zerks wrote: »

So ever rising tax receipts are magically disappearing? I'd love to meet their accountants.Figures being quoted then changed to suit the situation,very creative.

The tax deficit was €6bn from the end of August/start of Sept (See here). This excludes that tax reduction from the last budget and the need to put more money into PTSB so I am not sure what it is. If it were to continue as it was from then, it would be a deficit of around €9bn, which would mean a monthly borrowing of 3/4 of a billion per month to keep the country running as it currently is.

Geuze · 17-11-2014 02:34PM

zerks wrote: »

So ever rising tax receipts are magically disappearing? I'd love to meet their accountants.Figures being quoted then changed to suit the situation,very creative.

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/gfsa/governmentfinancestatisticsoctober2014/#.VGn47PmsWSo

Govt revenues have not risen that much

2009 = 56.6bn

2010 = 55.5bn, a fall from the year before

2011 = 57.3bn

2012 = 59bn

2013 = 60.8bn

Up 4 bn, or under 10%, across four years.

homerjay2005 · 17-11-2014 02:35PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Tony EH wrote: »

You know, I've know a lot of people with your mentality, they were all "cut the dole" blah, blah, during the boom years and then when the down turn happened and they lost their jobs, they ended up on the dole they were calling for reductions in previously.

people who worked and lost their jobs, deserve social welfare.

those who never worked, dont deserve what they are getting. you are deliberately twisting the reality and lumping honest, long term tax payers who lost their jobs, in with those who never worked in their life.

and here is where the hypocrisy and inconsistency lies, but i doubt you will accept this and admit that our social welfare system is very flawed.

gandalf · 17-11-2014 02:36PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Tony EH wrote: »

Irish Water isn't about "fixing leaks" though.

The whole purpose of introducing Water Charges is to secure and preserve the supply of water isn't it?

We're being told that our infrastructure is falling apart and figures of water wastage being bandied about as a justification for the setting up of Irish Water.

Tinkersbell · 17-11-2014 02:36PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

tayto lover wrote: »

Yeah so did I

Me too.
Some anonymous woman rang around 9am and said that she's going to bomb me.
Do these wan*ers actually think anyone believes a word that comes from their filthy lying mouths anymore?

Phoebas · 17-11-2014 02:37PM

listermint wrote: »

Address the points as to why 1/4 Million people have taken to the streets.

That number grows bigger with each telling. :pac:

gandalf · 17-11-2014 02:37PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Can you outline how you would locate these leaks? Stick a camera down every pipe in the country? The meters will help identify the areas that require the most urgent work.

Sorry can you outline how they will identify the areas that require the most work? You seem to be a subject expert on this?

listermint · 17-11-2014 02:38PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Phoebas wrote: »

That number grows bigger with each telling. :pac:

The Shills grow smaller,

It think its because people are opening their eyes.

Did you address any of my post above, or will you skirt around the outside like the rest of the cohort ?

Stargate · 17-11-2014 02:39PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

listermint wrote: »

I posted this again, because it seems like the enforcers are back in play this monday morning. Rather that being bullish about water balloons, and throwing people around the place and tools with a brick in their hands.

Address the points above, Address the points as to why 1/4 Million people have taken to the streets.

People are unhappy, and dont dare disregard their issue as being as single track minded as PPS numbers.

Its bigger than that, it is about being taken for fools. All of us. Fools. Waste after waste after waste.

And if the shills, yes i said it shills on here think that their money that they will pump into IW will be safe from the historical and preexisting waste well they will be sadly disappointed. There is no precedent for spending wisely within this country for efficiency.

The people on the streets are trying their best to lay down a benchmark for accountability. Its about time the back benchers took up that mantle.

Address the post above, or squabble about semantics of anarchy of which there as been none in the country to date.

Great post listermint.
Well said .

Just like Enda and Joan

" They are up and down the country talking to people "

Well Enda , the people of Sligo are waiting for your visit at 6:45pm this evening.
Be great to see you " actually " come and speak with the people you say you represent.

**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

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ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP