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**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

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Comments

  • #1772
    gladrags
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    keithclancy wrote: »
    Even if you have no contract with ESB Networks they have right of access to your land.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1927/en/act/pub/0027/sec0053.html

    That is deceptive.

    They "may" is the operative word.

    It is not the same as they can,or they will ,or they have a right.

    They only have a right,under certain circumstances.


  • #1773
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    gladrags wrote: »
    They "may" is the operative word.

    It is not the same as they can,or they will ,or they have a right.

    Oh sweet Jesus! It means exactly that. The part that restricts them is
    subject to the provisions of this section, and of regulations made by the Board under this Act


  • #1774
    shinzon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭shinzon


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    I get it, it's annoying and potentially, though very unlikely, he has a civil case against them. But it doesn't give him the right to attack them nor are they breaking the law. This is the part you are ignoring.

    They are breaking the law that's what your not getting, they are on a public footpath there is a barrier erected right in front of the right of passage for the homeowner to exit his property and go about his business.

    irish water is there doing legitimate work does not excuse them from observing the law themselves.

    Shin


  • #1775
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    shinzon wrote: »
    They are breaking the law that's what your not getting, they are on a public footpath there is a barrier erected right in front of the right of passage for the homeowner to exit his property and go about his business.

    irish water is there doing legitimate work does not excuse them from observing the law themselves, he actually does have a case if he wanted to proceed by the way

    Shin

    They are not breaking the law. They are not breaking the law you posted earlier, nor any legislative provision on trespassing, nor any other law you can pull out. They have specific permission to work on that particular pipe under Irish Water legislation and if that happens to block someones driveway for an hour or two that is just tough ****, just like the ESB can and just like the council can.


  • #1776
    shinzon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭shinzon


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    They are not breaking the law. They are not breaking the law you posted earlier, nor any legislative provision on trespassing, nor any other law you can pull out. They have specific permission to work on that particular pipe under Irish Water legislation and if that happens to block someones driveway for an hour or two that is just tough ****, just like the ESB can and just like the council can.

    Fine believe what you want getting a little hot under the collar with the expletives now though maybe you need to go away and calm down

    Shin


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  • #1777
    teddy_303
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭teddy_303


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    They are not breaking the law. They are not breaking the law you posted earlier, nor any legislative provision on trespassing, nor any other law you can pull out. They have specific permission to work on that particular pipe under Irish Water legislation and if that happens to block someones driveway for an hour or two that is just tough ****, just like the ESB can and just like the council can.

    tresspassing is a breach of common law, which is non legislative.


  • #1778
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    shinzon wrote: »
    Fine believe what you want getting a little hot under the collar with the expletives now though maybe you need to go away and calm down

    Shin

    It's quite infuriating to see so many of you posting nonsense legal arguments and made up laws to support your cause. It's nothing more than taking advantage of the ignorant out there.


  • #1779
    user2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    Are IW responsible for the pipes on the homeowners property? IIRC I don't think they are it's at the cost to the home owners if there is a leak between the meter and the house.. I'm not getting the comparison between IW and ESB for being on someone's property without their consent.

    Also 6 guys and a pipe in small space :confused: looked like three of them were there just to hold the barrier in place on the man's property, they could of used the man's gate as a barrier for his and their protection would of saved all the hassle.


  • #1780
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    I agree with metered water charges
    This video shows the man being hosed in the groin area with a high pressure washer, so how is he meant to react ? By perhaps saying "Could you please be more careful ".

    That this is carried out by what appears to be company employees makes it all the more reprehensible.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNCmaJkhOQw


  • #1781
    shinzon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭shinzon


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    It's quite infuriating to see so many of you posting nonsense legal arguments and made up laws to support your cause. It's nothing more than taking advantage of the ignorant out there.


    Fine show me the legislation then and im not talking about Irish Water being there doing there legitimate work, show me the legislation that specifically state Irish water can block public access and put up barriers in front of peoples premises blocking said access or any utility company for that matter

    In fact if they can block public access willy nilly then why do they put barriers up in such away that people can gain access to banks and shops etc etc

    Shin


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  • #1782
    Satriale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Satriale


    I would like Irish Water as a company to be restructured
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    It's quite infuriating to see so many of you posting nonsense legal arguments and made up laws to support your cause. It's nothing more than taking advantage of the ignorant out there.


    I'm missing the bit where you point to the legislation allowing IW to trespass on private property. They are not the ESB.
    I think that poor old gent showed great restraint in the face of his assault.


  • #1783
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Satriale wrote: »
    I'm missing the bit where you point to the legislation allowing IW to trespass on private property. They are not the ESB.
    I think that poor old gent showed great restraint in the face of his assault.

    Don't think that lovely Irish Wager gentleman will like your description of him! He was very restrained in his response to the attack by the householder.


  • #1784
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    steamengine wrote: »
    This video shows the man being hosed in the groin area with a high pressure washer, so how is he meant to react ? By perhaps saying "Could you please be more careful ".
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNCmaJkhOQw

    Which occurred after he attacked them.
    shinzon wrote: »
    Fine show me the legislation then and im not talking about Irish Water being there doing there legitimate work, show me the legislation that specifically state Irish water can block public access and put up barriers in front of peoples premises blocking said access or anu utility company for that matter
    Shin

    So you want me to show you legislation without showing you legislation. Great. The legislation is there to allow them work on the pipes. It doesn't matter where they are. There is no law preventing them being across your driveway.


  • #1785
    keithclancy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    To put it another way.

    Ignoring the violence/man handling.

    If this guy had a leak behind his house leaking saying 2000 liters of Water a day and he refused to fix it because it would cost money, but for the rest of the area it was causing water pressure problems, would you blame the Water Provider or the guy that wouldn't fix the leak at the back of his house ?

    They can't turn it off because he has a right to water
    Should they have access to his land ? Its not possible to find leaks without a meter.

    Also he would have had 2 weeks notice and another communication 2 days before (its in their guidelines)

    It is interesting to see how a Water Utility is perceived compared to Gas or Electric.

    Water utilities can degenerate to the level where they are barely functional but still perform their function. When they get to this level Public opinion causes further problems.

    When you try to make the Utility a consolidated Semi State company all of the crazy costs and inefficiencies come out in the open.

    Now its a cycle of, the infrastructure is crap we won't pay any more.
    Then the infrastructure gets worse, consumers even less likely to pay.
    Finally it hits crisis point and the Government has to bail it out from public funds.

    If it was Gas and there were leaks or Electricity with power cuts / brown outs / damaged cables, people instantly see the result of mismanagement or lack of funds.

    Since its water, as long as water comes out of the Tap nobody cares, they don't see the treatment facilities or the large amount of loss and think that the usage has nothing to do with the infrastructure requirements to feed demand.

    Interesting article on the Subject if anyone is interested:

    http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTWSS/Resources/Workingnote9.pdf

    Page 8 Figure 1
    I think we are on the "Customer are ever less willing to pay" stage.


  • #1786
    Satriale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Satriale


    I would like Irish Water as a company to be restructured
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Don't think that thug will like your description of him! He was very restrained in his response to the attack by the householder.

    I dunno Mary. Looks like they were trespassing to me. I wouldnt agree with interfering with them going about their work, if they stayed on the footpath as the law allows, but if they refused to get off my property it isnt a gate i would be swinging at them. :)


  • #1787
    gladrags
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    There is unfortunately no law that prevents corruption and cronyism,from entering peoples lives.

    Instead we have this!


  • #1788
    shinzon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭shinzon


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    The legislation is there to allow them work on the pipes.

    Your a great man for the Irish Water act ill give ye that youll quote that as some blanket law till the end you should work for them youd be great PR person

    You ignored the other part of my question bravo on that as well, so ill repeat why aren't Irish water if this high and mighty Irish water act allows them to do whatever they want not just putting up barriers up all over the shop and blocking in businesses banks or shops sure tis only a few hours feck em

    Hint: there not allowed to

    Shin


  • #1789
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Satriale wrote: »
    I'm missing the bit where you point to the legislation allowing IW to trespass on private property. They are not the ESB.
    I think that poor old gent showed great restraint in the face of his assault.

    There's a few. The main one would be Section 44 of the Water Services Act 2007
    Satriale wrote: »
    I dunno Mary. Looks like they were trespassing to me. I wouldnt agree with interfering with them going about their work, if they stayed on the footpath as the law allows, but if they refused to get off my property it isnt a gate i would be swinging at them. :)

    It's irrelevent. Even if you could successfully argue they were trespassing or wilfully obstructing, you still cannot attack them.
    shinzon wrote: »
    Your a great man for the Irish Water act ill give ye that youll quote that as some blanket law till the end you should work for them youd be great PR person

    God forbid I should mention the act dedicated to water in a sdiscussion about water. Do you even read your posts before you post them?
    shinzon wrote: »
    You ignored the other part of my question bravo on that as well, so ill repeat why aren't Irish water if this high and mighty Irish water act allows them to do whatever they want not just putting up barriers up all over the shop and blocking in businesses banks or shops sure tis only a few hours feck em

    Why would they do that unnecessarily? This guys access point just happens to be in the middle of his entrance.


  • #1790
    Satriale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Satriale


    I would like Irish Water as a company to be restructured
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    There's a few. The main one would be Section 44 of the Water Services Act 2007



    It's irrelevent. Even if you could successfully argue they were trespassing or wilfully obstructing, you still cannot attack them.



    God forbid I should mention the act dedicated to water in a sdiscussion about water. Do you even read your posts before you post them?



    Why would they do that unnecessarily? This guys access point just happens to be in the middle of his entrance.


    I hope you are not a solicitor!!:)


  • #1791
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    steamengine wrote: »
    This video shows the man being hosed in the groin area with a high pressure washer, so how is he meant to react ? By perhaps saying "Could you please be more careful ".

    That this is carried out by what appears to be company employees makes it all the more reprehensible.

    Neither side comes out of that looking great


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  • #1792
    shinzon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭shinzon


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Why would they do that unnecessarily? This guys access point just happens to be in the middle of his entrance.

    So you think a business would actually allow IW or any utility company to carry out works if it just happened to be right outside the entrance to said business and it caused them to lose revenue I highly doubt it

    anyways were never going to agree on this you think your right I think im right just going round in circles, so just draw a line under it and move on

    Shin


  • #1793
    whitelight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭whitelight


    the treatment of the homeowner in that video is sick, I don't care how much IW are paying I couldn't do that to anyone, nevermind an old man. you obviously have to be of a certain character to work for them. What is passing as acceptable treatment of the public in this country is RIDICULOUS....


  • #1794
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    I agree with metered water charges
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Which occurred after he attacked them.

    We must be looking at different videos. At least you do acknowledge the high pressure hosing in the groin area. Have these workers undergone any safety training as to the dangers of using high pressure washers - in that they think it is OK to assault an elderly man with same .


  • #1795
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    I agree with metered water charges
    My name is URL wrote: »
    Neither side comes out of that looking great

    Indeed, but to my mind to turn a high pressure washer on someone at close range is at best highly irresponsible and could cause injury.


  • #1796
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    steamengine wrote: »
    Indeed, but to my mind to turn a high pressure washer on someone at close range is at best highly irresponsible and could cause injury.

    Yeah, no argument there. It looked fairly malicious too. Definitely no accident.


  • #1797
    skywalker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭skywalker


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    They were blocking his driveway in order to work on the pipes which they are authorised to do under Irish Water legislation. In the same way if the council want to redo your foot path they can block your driveway. This does not give you permission to attack them nor does it constitute a criminal act on their part.

    He does not have the right to use force to remove them from his property as they present no threat to him or his property. He is a violent man, as evidenced by his previous actions, and is acting completely outside of the law. The only reason you are supporting him is because it is IW employees he is attacking. If these were council workers resurfacing the road and pavement would you be so happy with his actions?

    Out of interest did you completely miss them turning a high pressure hose on at the mans genitals?


  • #1798
    Satriale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Satriale


    I would like Irish Water as a company to be restructured
    steamengine wrote: »
    Indeed, but to my mind to turn a high pressure washer on someone at close range is at best highly irresponsible and could cause injury.

    Any site i ever worked on that had a modicum of H&S, that would be a sackable offence.


  • #1799
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Valetta wrote: »
    The government control IW.

    The government control Revenue.

    So, yes they can have revenue collect the water charges if they are so minded.

    Whether they do or not is a different matter.

    If there was any link at all then they wouldn't need pps numbers. Revenue can't take money off people for water charges. That could possibly just deduct it from home owners using the property tax register, but this would hit landlords, which they can't do.


  • #1800
    Alun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,548 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    skywalker wrote: »
    Out of interest did you completely miss them turning a high pressure hose on at the mans genitals?
    Out of interest did you also miss him in the full version of the video rushing at the gate / safety barriers hurling abuse at them, while some of his family, who obviously also thought this reaction was OTT, were trying to pull him back? The IW guys were out of order doing what they did, agreed, but if you provoke even the calmest of people enough they'll break and do something stupid. As someone else said neither 'side' covered themselves in glory here.


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  • #1801
    skywalker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭skywalker


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Alun wrote: »
    Out of interest did you also miss him in the full version of the video rushing at the gate / safety barriers hurling abuse at them, while some of his family, who obviously also thought this reaction was OTT, were trying to pull him back? The IW guys were out of order doing what they did, agreed, but if you provoke even the calmest of people enough they'll break and do something stupid. As someone else said neither 'side' covered themselves in glory here.

    They turned a high pressure hose on a mans genitals! That's beyond assault & it's indefensible.


This discussion has been closed.
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