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**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

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Comments

  • #1412
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    tayto lover wrote: »
    My incomings and outgoings and those of my children would say otherwise.
    Perhaps.

    But do you not see any merit in the fact that we reduced our deficit from 20 billion 5 years ago to about 6 now? (Your grandchildren will certainly appreciate that we did not dump another 100 billion on top of the existing 200 billion that they will have to service once we shuffle off)

    Or that our economy is growing at the fastest rate in 7 years, and one of the fastest in the EU?

    Or that employment is rising?

    Or is all this negated because you take a dim view of IW or the idea of paying for what water we use?


  • #1413
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    hju6 wrote: »
    You must be very tall....

    No. I'm just standing on the shoulders of eijits. :pac:


  • #1414
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,103 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    Perhaps.

    But do you not see any merit in the fact that we reduced our deficit from 20 billion 5 years ago to about 6 now? (Your grandchildren will certainly appreciate that we did not dump another 100 billion on top of the existing 200 billion that they will have to service once we shuffle off)

    Or that our economy is growing at the fastest rate in 7 years, and one of the fastest in the EU?

    Or that employment is rising?

    Or is all this negated because you take a dim view of IW or the idea of paying for what water we use?

    My grandchildren will more than likely be forced to emigrate as a result of the policies, cronyism and neck of the last two Governments. Nobody will be able to afford to live here soon.
    Why do you think so many people are taking to the streets. People who have never marched before, employed, unemployed, elderly, young, private sector, public sector, people from private estates, council estates etc etc.?
    People really have to ask themselves this question. The anger is growing daily and the protests will get bigger. It is folly to think otherwise.


  • #1415
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    tayto lover wrote: »
    My grandchildren will more than likely be forced to emigrate as a result of the policies, cronyism and neck of the last two Governments.
    I think their prospects are far better if we had not taken the measures we did. Seriously, do you think it would have been a good idea to add 20 billion every year to the national debt?

    tayto lover wrote: »
    Why do you think so many people are taking to the streets. People who have never marched before, employed, unemployed, elderly, young, private sector, public sector, people from private estates, council estates etc etc.?
    People really have to ask themselves this question. The anger is growing daily and the protests will get bigger. It is folly to think otherwise.
    Yes, people are angry. Because our improving economy came at considerable personal cost to many of them. But realistically there was no alternative path we could have taken. They would now be far worse off if he had not taken these measures.


  • #1416
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    There is an interesting conjunction of events due. Northern Ireland will have to have the Assembly elections in May 2016 at the latest. Before that the current situation where water charges were long fingered in 2007 and 2011 will come up for discussion again at the end of 2015. Anti Sinn Fein republicans are saying that water meters have already been installed in Belfast and households have received letters asking them to nominate how they want to pay for water in future.

    http://www.republicanunity.org/water-charges-notification-received-by-residents-in-belfast/

    No word of this in the O'Brien or Murdoch press or in An Phoblacht. It hard to know what to make of it but RNU are very active in the South also in the anti campaign. One way or another I expect that the parties in the North will be under severe pressure from Westminster to finally accept some form of water charges. Now that we have joined the rest of the world they are the only developed country left with no water charges.

    It will make for interesting election campaign North and South. Every constituency here will have at least one, probably several "anti austerity" candidates, so nobody can complain of a lack of political choice.

    It will indeed be interesting to see how the Northern parties square that circle.

    Here, the one area that's missing in the possible candidate line up here is the centre right position where the candidates are not sullied and mired in party history.

    FF are still (rightly) toxic. FG are looking more and more like blue FF, they've certainly picked up very quickly on how to use the system for their own benefit, and for the benefit of the Golden Circle, and I have to be brutal and say that the candidate I will be looking for will be one that is committed to fundamental reform of state services across the board.

    Times have changed, but the state services structure and methods have not, they are still stuck in an ultra conservative catholic loop that is more appropriate to the 1960's than it is to the 2020's. The local authorities are top heavy with expensive management that is inappropriate to the needs of the community, and there are way too many duplications of function at local levels that are no longer relevant to modern living.

    The HSE needs total reform, it was never properly set up when the health boards were merged, and now that FG/Lab have set up IW in the same way, the people have turned on them and said "ENOUGH".

    Personally, I'm not against water charges, but I am totally opposed to the manner in which IW has been set up and structured, and to the cronyism that has been exposed in the management structure.

    Ireland is at the point now where we cannot afford the luxury of a bloated state sector that's still operating with an out of date and inappropriate ethos. The IMF made that clear when they looked at the state of things, but the FF/Green coalition signed up to their package, so the real changes that the IMF were looking at never happened to the degree that they could and should have.

    It would have been the perfect excuse for the politicians, they could have done what was needed and blamed the IMF, but they didn't have the bottle to do it, and we're going to be paying for their cowardice for a very long time to come.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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  • #1417
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    MOD

    People need to reign it in a bit. I'm not far from locking the thread and leaving it closed, the amount of mod actions on this thread and the other is far too much and it's not even one or two posters, going by the last 5 pages I could pick out 5 or 6+ for personal abuse, uncivil and acting the d!ck in general.

    Please stay on topic, IW/Water charges, not the 1916 rising or whatever else.


  • #1418
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,103 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Irish Examiner. "Water usage will drop by only 6% with metering"

    So it's about collecting money rather than conservation. As we thought.


  • #1419
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    Perhaps.

    But do you not see any merit in the fact that we reduced our deficit from 20 billion 5 years ago to about 6 now? (Your grandchildren will certainly appreciate that we did not dump another 100 billion on top of the existing 200 billion that they will have to service once we shuffle off)

    Or that our economy is growing at the fastest rate in 7 years, and one of the fastest in the EU?

    Or that employment is rising?

    Or is all this negated because you take a dim view of IW or the idea of paying for what water we use?

    The figures tell us that there's a recovery, but it is very patchy, and there are many areas of the economy that have not recovered or improved at all, and they are going to struggle to recover for a long time yet.

    There are several reasons. Anything to do with exports is doing OK, but the domestic economy is still in the doldrums.

    One reason is that there are a lot of people who are still unable to spend money because they don't have any, and even if they do, they are only going to be paying off debts that were incurred during the crash, and they've been completely unable to do anything about servicing them for a long time.

    The other factor is the fear that the whole charade is going to come crashing down again, as it's being fuelled by the wrong things. We're not seeing any significant increase in things like manufacturing, the biggest growth in recent times is property prices in Dublin, have we learnt nothing from the last 10 years?

    Some of the expansion is because people are having to do things like repair and refurbish their houses, there's been next to nothing done in that area for close on 8 years, I've seen more skips in gardens in our road this last 6 months than I have in the last 8 years, and some of that will be that people are not prepared to leave repairs and renovations any longer, there will be a massive backlog of work to be done.

    given how badly things crashed, it's not hard to be growing at the fastest rate for 7 years.

    And yes, to answer your last point, I take a VERY dim view of IW, the concept was excellent, the implementation was a total disaster of epic proportions, the Government couldn't have got it wrong more badly, they totally misread the attitude of the electorate, and are paying the price for it now.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #1420
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    MOD

    People need to reign it in a bit. I'm not far from locking the thread and leaving it closed, the amount of mod actions on this thread and the other is far too much and it's not even one or two posters, going by the last 5 pages I could pick out 5 or 6+ for personal abuse, uncivil and acting the d!ck in general.

    Please stay on topic, IW/Water charges, not the 1916 rising or whatever else.

    Can we have our poll yet?


  • #1421
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Same as the last thread?


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  • #1422
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    tayto lover wrote: »
    Irish Examiner. "Water usage will drop by only 6% with metering"

    So it's about collecting money rather than conservation. As we thought.

    if it was about conservation , SierraGMC/Bord Gais would have been fixing leaks instead of installing meters


  • #1423
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    Same as the last thread?

    Maybe some new options. I did ask for other posters ideas .......

    hold up, I will link and see what you think


  • #1424
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,706 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Tony EH wrote: »
    Yeh, whatever.

    I don't know where the 40% percentage comes from, or who it was that was tasked to find it out.

    The question STILL stands however.

    Is it reliable?

    It's a simple question. I'm sure there's a simple answer.

    One thing is for sure, we can all do without the old maidish attitudes and bollocks accusations of "conspiracy". :pac:
    VinLieger wrote: »
    Well what would you call your questioning of "is it reliable?" If its deemed to not be reliable then there's a conspiracy to inflate the number for the advantage of one group over another however that is without proof still a theory, hence - conspiracy theory

    Eh no...it'll be just an unreliable percentage figure. That's all.

    The only only mentioning of "conspiracy" is from you.

    :pac:

    Laughable attempt at discussion.


  • #1425
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    Any chance of having another poll? Maybe giving the option to select more than one answer?
    1. I am opposed to metered water charges
    2. I agree with metered water charges
    3. I will be attending a protest march
    4. I will not be attending a protest march
    5. I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form
    6. I would like Irish Water as a company to be restructured
    7. I would like to see Irish Water as a company to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local authorities.

    Just some ideas of possible poll questions and I believe the option to select more than one answer would give a better idea of the feelings of boardsies. My wording could probably be better too. Add/amend as you wish. :)
    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    I suppose you could throw in a couple of options for the honest. I.e
    1. I'll support everything the government do no matter what
    2. I'll oppose everything the government do no matter what
    :)

    Maybe some other posters want to add too ???


  • #1426
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    Same as the last thread?

    Can a poll have more than one response to it?

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #1427
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    You can choose more than one option if it is set up that way.


  • #1428
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    The first set seem OK though the protests are anything from wanting a GE called to no water meters to no payment, etc

    1, 2, 5, 6 and 7 seem fine. I'm about to stick on a movie so will I just go with that?

    Yes, there is an option that allows more than one to be picked


  • #1429
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    tayto lover wrote: »
    Irish Examiner. "Water usage will drop by only 6% with metering"

    So it's about collecting money rather than conservation. As we thought.

    Snap!

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93014855&postcount=5714

    Think we knew that from the outset.


  • #1430
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    The first set seem OK though the protests are anything from wanting a GE called to no water meters to no payment, etc

    1, 2, 5, 6 and 7 seem fine. I'm about to stick on a movie so will I just go with that?

    Yes, there is an option that allows more than one to be picked

    OK, here's a suggestion for the new poll

    I agree with water charges based on metering
    I agree with water charges based on the number of people in the house, but not using metering
    I agree with a water charge at a flat rate for each property
    I do not agree with water charges based on metering or occupancy or a flat rate
    I agree with Irish Water as set up
    I do not agree with Irish Water as set up
    I agree with the concept of Irish water, but not as presently structured
    I do not agree with Irish Water in any form
    I agree that water should be part of the local authorities
    I do not agree that water should be part of the local authorities
    I I do not agree with any form of water charge or tax.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #1431
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Ah here, I'm not spending all night doing it up!!! :D

    I'll go with the 5 or 6 other ones


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  • #1432
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    OK, sorted. Poll is public. Had to cut down no5 as it only allows 100 characters but I'm sure everyone gets the idea :)


  • #1433
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Thank you, enjoy your movie :)


  • #1434
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    tayto lover wrote: »
    Irish Examiner. "Water usage will drop by only 6% with metering"

    So it's about collecting money rather than conservation. As we thought.

    So, if consumption drops by 6%, and they fix the leaks that are losing somewhere between 40 and 50%, that means water IN goes down by over 50%, which in theory should mean a saving of somewhere around 250 tp 300 Million per annum, if we split the current spend 50/50 between water and waste water.
    That's sizeable, and will free up significant sums to go towards the new infrastructure that's needed.

    It's about getting water OUT of the control of local and national political parties, as they have done massive damage by preferring visible short term vote winning schemes over invisible infrastructure. Those days have to end, so the ONLY way to solve that issue is to take water out of the LA's and put it into a dedicated company that won't be subject to the whim of whichever party has a majority this month in the local elections.

    The problem at the moment is that we're still stuck with the semi state county managers that were bad before they were moved out, which won't solve the problems, we'd have been better to get some people from outside of Ireland with real water experience to head up the most important new company that's been set up for 25 years. Almost retired semi state rejects won't hack this job, it's too big and too important to let them within a million miles of it, we've seen their track record, and it's not pretty.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #1435
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,706 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    ****in hell

    Someone actually voted for

    "I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form"

    REALLY...

    :pac:


  • #1436
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Tony EH wrote: »
    ****in hell

    Someone actually voted for

    "I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form"

    REALLY...

    :pac:

    There's nowt so strange as Folk.

    Is that you Enda?

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #1437
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,706 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    I think it has to be.

    Enda's on Boards!!!!

    All the Fine Gaeler's will be wetting themselves.


  • #1438
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    The poll is deceptive in that someone can vote for multiple options at once. I stil dont feel the poll choices reflect my views. I want water to be run properly, to not be charged for, not like this and enshrined into the constitution so it cannot be sold off to pay for someone elses debts.


  • #1439
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    masculinist wrote: »
    The poll is deceptive in that someone can vote for multiple options at once. I stil dont feel the poll choices reflect my views. I want water to be run properly, to not be charged for, not like this and enshrined into the constitution so it cannot be sold off to pay for someone elses debts.

    If I was to do a poll with every option I'd be here all night. Pick one that suits or don't pick any

    And the options aren't mutually exclusive, you can pick different options because more than one may apply to you/posters


  • #1440
    teddy_303
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭teddy_303


    http://youtu.be/TDGRL6eCx2k


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  • #1441
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    teddy_303 wrote: »
    http://youtu.be/TDGRL6eCx2k

    Jaysus

    "You're a f**kin muppet, Enda Kenny" :rolleyes:


This discussion has been closed.
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