Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

1…5681011…132

Comments

  • #212
    Stargate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    moxin wrote: »
    Just in, if true..
    https://www.facebook.com/thelandleague/posts/1487790678163993?fref=nf

    Affects Donaghmede,Edenmore,Baldoyle,Kilbarack,Raheny & Coolock according to the campaign group.


    They were absent today I believe.
    Stargate wrote: »
    Was watching that develop , the end of the article says contact

    JERRY BEADES
    SPOKESPERSON FOR THE LAND LEAGUE for info.

    Is this statement true i wonder ?
    My name is URL wrote: »
    I'm gonna say no



    That just sounds like such a bullshitty thing to say!

    https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/530513928556920832


  • #213
    queensinead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭queensinead


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    You just don't get it do you - or you're deliberately choosing not to (personally I'm guessing the latter)

    - Most people who have a problem with this mess, don't actually have a problem with the concept of paying for water

    - Most people know the infrastructure is a mess and that it will cost more money than they presently get through general taxation to fix

    - People DO have a major problem however with paying for another incompetent quango stuffed with government hangers-on and which has a bonus structure that proposes to reward underperforming staff - something which would get them put on Performance Improvement Plans in the real world

    - People DO have a problem with the threats and blackmail used by this incompetent entity to try and get people to register as "customers"

    - People DO have a problem with an entity that has already shown itself to be incompetent in handling people's personal data while demanding more of it

    - People DO have a problem with a government that - despite all the above - still seems (at cabinet/senior level anyway) intent on pushing this through

    Thankfully though, the deeper Enda, Joan and the others dig in, the more they split their own parties. They won't have to worry about protests escalating further the way things are going.. their own colleagues will force an end to it yet - because regardless of party affiliation, there's nothing a TD in this country values more than their seat at the table.

    Maybe you don't, but lots of protesters actually do have a very big problem "with the concept of paying for water"

    There is no one clear message

    Protesters are protesting with different emphasis and want different things, judging by interviews with protesters by the media on Saturday

    Some protesters agree with having metered water but are disgusted with the quango Irish Water

    Others said they were paying for water already through tax, and won't pay another penny

    Some think water is a free natural resource

    Others said they agree with meters and pay-per-use, but that it was way too dear in its present format, and anyway would probably end up being much more expensive than the official line

    Others were totally focused on PPS numbers

    Others just seemed to want to bring down the government at all costs and had another larger political agenda beyond water

    So there are lots of different issues and agendas among protesters

    I don't think anyone can say "People don't have a problem with X...People do have a problem with Y"

    It depends on what "people" you're talking about


  • #214
    Stargate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    The installation of water meters in trouble spots in Dublin has been halted in the wake of protests turning violent, the Irish Independent has learned.

    " The move comes as the Coalition is "actively examining" a toughening up of the water charges regime, to allow the deduction of payment from the salaries and social welfare of householders who refuse to pay their bills "

    Link
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/water-protests-infiltrated-by-dissidents-as-meters-on-hold-30725389.html


  • #215
    S.O
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭S.O


    Stargate wrote: »
    The installation of water meters in trouble spots in Dublin has been halted in the wake of protests turning violent, the Irish Independent has learned.

    " The move comes as the Coalition is "actively examining" a toughening up of the water charges regime, to allow the deduction of payment from the salaries and social welfare of householders who refuse to pay their bills "

    Link
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/water-protests-infiltrated-by-dissidents-as-meters-on-hold-30725389.html

    Besides alan kelly coming out and saying no ones water is going to be cut off or pressure reduced, ministers appear to rule out involving the revenue, so as to how they are going to deduct money from source without the revenue to help them? appears like a empty threat this talk of deducting money from source to Intimidate people.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/ministers-rule-out-revenue-role-in-collection-of-water-charges-30722771.html


  • #216
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    queensinead wrote: »

    So there are lots of different issues and agendas among protesters


    I suspect most of them don't actually know what they're marching about at all, other than a sense of anger about austerity measures and disenchantment with the current political system.

    I heard the Shinner McDonald on the radio yesterday evening. Sweep away the bluster and the SF solution to provision of water is to increase income taxes - is this what most protestors want?
    Other than the profession SW class, who are used to getting everything paid for by others, I doubt it.

    You can blather on all you want about water being a "Human right", but guess what - someone needs to pay for it, the question is who.
    The hard-left 'solution' as per usual is to take more away from those who work and give more to those who don't.


  • Advertisement
  • #217
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Barely There wrote: »
    I suspect most of them don't actually know what they're marching about at all, other than a sense of anger about austerity measures and disenchantment with the current political system.

    I heard the Shinner McDonald on the radio yesterday evening. Sweep away the bluster and the SF solution to provision of water is to increase income taxes - is this what most protestors want?
    Other than the profession SW class, who are used to getting everything paid for by others, I doubt it.

    You can blather on all you want about water being a "Human right", but guess what - someone needs to pay for it, the question is who.
    The hard-left 'solution' as per usual is to take more away from those who work and give more to those who don't.
    Bizarre first line. Silly people dont know what they are protesting about followed by you a crediting them with a perfectly reasonable and wide spread reason for many of the protester to exist in the first place.


  • #218
    shinzon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭shinzon


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Barely There wrote: »
    I suspect most of them don't actually know what they're marching about at all, other than a sense of anger about austerity measures and disenchantment with the current political system.

    I heard the Shinner McDonald on the radio yesterday evening. Sweep away the bluster and the SF solution to provision of water is to increase income taxes - is this what most protestors want?
    Other than the profession SW class, who are used to getting everything paid for by others, I doubt it.

    You can blather on all you want about water being a "Human right", but guess what - someone needs to pay for it, the question is who.
    The hard-left 'solution' as per usual is to take more away from those who work and give more to those who don't.

    That's a rather sweeping generalisation of the protestors to be fair, im one of them and I can assure you we all know what were marching against.

    Shin


  • #219
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,931 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    shinzon wrote: »
    That's a rather sweeping generalisation of the protestors to be fair, im one of them and I can assure you we all know what were marching against.

    Shin

    And that's also an incredibly sweeping statement, you can assure us that every single protestor marching knows what they are marching for and isn't just a sheep? There isn't one person in the country jumping on the bandwagon? How do you know this, did you talk to all of them?


  • #220
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    shinzon wrote: »
    That's a rather sweeping generalisation


    shinzon wrote: »
    I can assure you we all know what were marching against.

    :D:D:D:D

    You obviously don't know how 'sweeping generalisations' work. I used the word 'suspect' making it clear I was expressing my opionion about the matter.

    Anyhow, why don't you tell us why you, (and all the other people you're apparently able to speak for) were marching?


  • #221
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    VinLieger wrote: »
    And that's also an incredibly sweeping statement, you can assure us that every single protestor marching knows what they are marching for and isn't just a sheep? There isn't one person in the country jumping on the bandwagon? How do you know this, did you talk to all of them?

    Psssst. Burden of proof. Barely There made an assertion as to the motives or lack of of many of the protesters. HE needs to give some basis for his hunch


  • Advertisement
  • #222
    shinzon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭shinzon


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    so let me ask you this percentage wise how many do you think were sheep marching at the protest seens as you think you know everything about it

    and as regards what people were marching about simple the abolition of water charges and Irish Water nothing more complicated then that as evidenced by every single banner poster chant t shirt etc etc that was on show

    Shin


  • #223
    ROCKMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ROCKMAN


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    VinLieger wrote: »
    And that's also an incredibly sweeping statement, you can assure us that every single protestor marching knows what they are marching for and isn't just a sheep? There isn't one person in the country jumping on the bandwagon? How do you know this, did you talk to all of them?

    Surely the use of this term is more fitting for the pro Water Charges Brigade ,,


    I suspect :D


  • #224
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    The Indo is now trying to imply that the halt in water meter installations in some parts of Dublin is due to protester's being infiltrated by 'dissident republicans'.

    I attended a few protests, and if they want to class middle aged homeowners, OAPs, business men, doctors, children and students as dissident, they may be on to something.

    It's convenient and a coincidence that they're the only news group claiming this. It is also convenient and a coincidence that the Indo is controlled by Dennis OBrien, who (coincidentally) controls GMC Sierra, the group rewarded the contract to install the water meters.

    Serious backlash to the story in the comments section.

    The public see through this.

    Good way to save face though FG and Labour.

    Another climb down. Keep up the pressure.


  • #225
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    shinzon wrote: »

    and as regards what people were marching about simple the abolition of water charges and Irish Water


    So you think everyone marching wants to stick with a model whereby water is paid for through income taxation out of central exchequer funding, with the amount to be spent decided by the Minister of Finance, based on how much votes he thinks spending on capital investment will win him at the next GE?

    i.e. the current funding model which has seen us end up with a creaking system which has been under-invested in for decades?


    If this is what people are marching for, then Christ help us a society.


  • #226
    gladrags
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    VinLieger wrote: »
    And that's also an incredibly sweeping statement, you can assure us that every single protestor marching knows what they are marching for and isn't just a sheep? There isn't one person in the country jumping on the bandwagon? How do you know this, did you talk to all of them?

    Who is "us"?

    You clearly have taken it upon youself to speak form them.

    How do you know did you talk to all of them?

    Whoever they are.


  • #227
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,931 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    gladrags wrote: »
    Who is "us"?

    You clearly have taken it upon youself to speak form them.

    How do you know did you talk to all of them?

    Whoever they are.

    Oh get your head out of your ass, us mean's anyone participating in the thread as you well know.


  • #228
    gladrags
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Banjo String wrote: »
    The Indo is now trying to imply that the halt in water meter installations in some parts of Dublin is due to protester's being infiltrated by 'dissident republicans'.

    I attended a few protests, and if they want to class middle aged homeowners, OAPs, business men, doctors, children and students as dissident, they may be on to something.

    It's convenient and a coincidence that they're the only news group claiming this. It is also convenient and a coincidence that the Indo is controlled by Dennis OBrien, who (coincidentally) controls GMC Sierra, the group rewarded the contract to install the water meters.

    Serious backlash to the story in the comments section.

    The public see through this.

    Good way to save face though FG and Labour.

    Another climb down. Keep up the pressure.

    Nothing new there.

    When the Sindo realised the public support against,they jumped on the bandwagon.

    It was a question of when they would try this.

    It always has been an agenda ridden rag.

    Factualism is not the priority.


  • #229
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,251 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Barely There wrote: »
    If this is what people are marching for, then Christ help us a society.

    As opposed to those who are still defending an incompetent, wasteful billing agency that can't even get its message out without making a balls of it, and already proving itself as incapable of properly managing "customer" data - never mind the whole bonus arrangements.

    Supported by a government that is currently tearing itself apart as the senior level pigheadedly try to force it through anyway, and can't even do that without contradicting each other multiple times per day

    Yea, supporting that setup makes a lot of sense alright!


  • #230
    gladrags
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    VinLieger wrote: »
    Oh get your head out of your ass, us mean's anyone participating in the thread as you well know.

    You don't speak for me,as far as I am aware,you represent your own opinion,you do not speak for others or...

    "anyone participating in the thread"

    Such hypocrisy.


  • #231
    moxin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Barely There wrote: »

    The hard-left 'solution' as per usual is to take more away from those who work and give more to those who don't.

    Its already paid for out of VAT and motor tax. Income tax for the top rate was recently cut by 1%, seeing as you say that there is no money for funding, where did the money come from to fund this?


  • Advertisement
  • #232
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Yea, supporting that setup makes a lot of sense alright!

    Yep, supporting the transfer of managing critical infrastructure out of the political system into a dedicated body with responsibility for funding and maintaining investment in it does make a lot of sense.

    The reality of the set-up of IW has left a lot to be desired, mainly due to political incompetence - which is all the more reason to transfer responsibility of our water-infrastructure away from these people.

    If posters on here are to be believed however, everybody marching are basically campaigning for the status-quo to be maintained.
    A mixed-message of 'I hate the politicians, they're all incompetent/corrupt, but I still want them to be in charge of our water-infrastructure'.

    Go figure


  • #233
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    I agree with metered water charges
    All this talk of "if we don't have a charge for water,then who is going to pay for it" is nonsense.The money has always been there & now with the property tax there's more available.It's not the people's fault that for decades we've seen monumental wastes of money while the water network was neglected & even now with this new "company" there's still no promise of nationwide upgrades.


  • #234
    Red Pepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭Red Pepper


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    I work in PR and I have some friends that are working close to the government. I am hearing that there is a huge drive this week to fill the media with non Irish Water stories - everything and anything to get Irish Water off the headlines. For example, the timing of new job announcements and FF/bailout letters last/this week isn't coincidental. The government are really scared this time. It's interesting.


  • #235
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    moxin wrote: »
    Its already paid for out of VAT and motor tax. Income tax for the top rate was recently cut by 1%, seeing as you say that there is no money for funding, where did the money come from to fund this?


    We can choose whatever way we want to fund water provision.
    Personally I'm in favour of the introduction of separate metered-charging and ideally a coincident reduction in income taxation.


  • #236
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,931 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    gladrags wrote: »
    You don't speak for me,as far as I am aware,you represent your own opinion,you do not speak for others or...

    "anyone participating in the thread"

    Such hypocrisy.

    Nice derailing there btw to deflect from someone making sweeping generalisation's. Did I claim to speak for anyone else? No I didn't, so again get your head out of your ass.


  • #237
    Creative Juices
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Creative Juices


    Red Pepper wrote: »
    I work in PR and I have some friends that are working close to the government. I am hearing that there is a huge drive this week to fill the media with non Irish Water stories - everything and anything to get Irish Water off the headlines. For example, the timing of new job announcements and FF/bailout letters last/this week isn't coincidental. The government are really scared this time. It's interesting.

    I am surprised this government have a PR department. Coming off the back of arguably the worst FF government in the history of the state, it is hard to fathom how badly wrong FG and Labour have got it. They have just plodded from one crisis or screw-up to another.


  • #238
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    I agree with metered water charges
    Barely There wrote: »
    We can choose whatever way we want to fund water provision.
    Personally I'm in favour of the introduction of separate metered-charging and ideally a coincident reduction in income taxation.

    We all know a reduction in taxation won't happen,look at what was said during the budget over the USC (which was meant to be temporary)
    I've said it before & I'll say it again - even a portion of the USC would more than fund water provision.


  • #239
    moxin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Barely There wrote: »
    We can choose whatever way we want to fund water provision.
    Personally I'm in favour of the introduction of separate metered-charging and ideally a coincident reduction in income taxation.

    Well, your scenario hasn't happened and has not been proposed by FG\Lab. Dropping the top rate of tax by 1% does nothing for those whose income is nowhere near to qualify for it.(its a large chunk of people)


  • #240
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,931 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Barely There wrote: »
    We can choose whatever way we want to fund water provision.
    Personally I'm in favour of the introduction of separate metered-charging and ideally a coincident reduction in income taxation.

    This is exactly what I am for too but anti charges people seem to have a hard on for trying to constantly imply anyone for charges is for IW cronyism


  • Advertisement
  • #241
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Sounds like the government have decided to take stock of things and actually put some thought into the implementation of the water charges. It was stupid to try rush it through so fast.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement