More Crap on Adams, Mod Warning in OP.

Happyman42 · 23-10-2014 01:18AM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

One thing that I haven't heard answered is this. Who attempted to bring an injunction against the Spotlight program? Who is attempting to silence journalists?

Why would you assume it was an attempt to silence journalists? You are entitled as a citizen to injunct something you believe is going to defame you, too. Could have been any one of the acquitted or Gerry Adams or SF

porsche959 · 23-10-2014 01:30AM

Karl Stein wrote: »

Indeed. Nationalists going to the RUC or availing of the 'justice' system in the north, at the time, would be akin to a Black person from deep south USA in the 1960's going to 'whitey' police.

Obviously those who've had their opinions formed by reading 'journalist' opinion pieces in the post Section 31 era are clueless about the nuances of how society functions during a conflict.

Utterly clueless.

Agreed.

And I honestly believe that some of those journalists would happily return to the days of Section 31.

The USA has fought a 'war against terror' for 13 years - and much as many, including myself, would criticise many things that have been done in 'prosecuting' that conflict - they have managed to fight it without any serious politician, or even pundit of the most right wing news channel, Fox, seriously advocating that they get rid or water down their long cherished constitutional protections of freedom of speech.

The shill journalists that you refer to, the idiot spiritual children of Conor Cruise O'Brien and the like, are quite simply pathetic, and should be called out on their double standards, hypocrisy, and craven moral venality, at every opportunity.

bajer101 · 23-10-2014 01:53AM

I'm new to this discussion and am no lover of Sinn Fein but a couple of things have struck me. I was told a while ago that Sinn Fein would never be allowed to get into power and this does smack of a behind the scenes effort to undermine them. The main thing that has struck me is about how when Mairia's rape accusation came to court the case suddenly changed from one person being charged with rape to five people being charged with IRA membership! She went to the the new all inclusive PSNI with this and as a result they brought charges against people for membership of the IRA. She is from a staunch republican family so it it wouldn't be surprising that she has a problem with this. AFAIK, this was in 2010. It would seem that despite the peace process the appetite still seems to be there with charging people with historical IRA membership. On the basis of this, I don't really blame Adams for his continuing denial of his membership.

I have no reason to doubt Mairia's claims - not just of the rapes but also of her account of what happened afterwards, but I really do question people's motives for using what happened to her.

Esel · 23-10-2014 01:53AM

ghostdancer wrote: »

a court has not found her accusations to be true.
she refused to give evidence in court.
the people that she accused of her supposed questioning were not found guilty.

No, the court did not hear her testimony. The accused were acquitted.

ghostdancer wrote: »

a court of law found no evidence to back up Cahill's claims of abuse.

The court heard no evidence.

ghostdancer wrote: »

even though a court of law has found no merit in her accusations?

The court did not hear her accusations.

ghostdancer wrote: »

a court of law did not find either to have occurred based on what Maria Cahill alleged.

The case collapsed because she decided not to give evidence. The defendants were then acquitted. Not the same as a Not Guilty verdict.

As a judge is reputed to have said to an accused in a Limerick court during British rule:

"You have been found not guilty by a jury of your peers, and you may leave this court with no other slur on your character."

Karl Stein · 23-10-2014 02:13AM

porsche959 wrote: »

The shill journalists that you refer to, the idiot spiritual children of Conor Cruise O'Brien and the like, are quite simply pathetic, and should be called out on their double standards, hypocrisy, and craven moral venality, at every opportunity.

'Idiot spiritual children of Conor Cruise O'Brien'.. good description.

[CCO'B] wished to "cleanse the culture" of republicanism and would like the bill to be used against teachers who allegedly glorified Irish revolutionaries. He also wanted it used against newspaper editors who published pro-republican or anti-British readers' letters.

O'Brien stat[ed] that the "killing strain" of Irish republicanism, "has a very high propensity to run in families and the mother is most often the carrier".

a successful libel action was brought against CCO'B by relatives of Bloody Sunday victims for alleging in a Sunday Independent article in 1997 that the marchers were "Sinn Féin activists operating for the IRA"

O'Brien opposed the 1998 Good Friday Agreement

Wiki

It's remarkable how much influence a nasty little misogynist, lying, anti-Nationalist neurotic has had on the Irish psyche.

Esel · 23-10-2014 02:18AM

Karl Stein wrote: »

... Conor Cruise O'Brien...

It's remarkable how much influence a nasty little misogynist, lying, anti-Nationalist neurotic has had on the Irish psyche.

The Cruiser was just a mouthpiece for the Heavy Gang.

Could you give your concise opinion of de Valera (in the style of the above) and his influence on the Irish psyche?

Karl Stein · 23-10-2014 02:43AM

Esel wrote: »

The Cruiser was just a mouthpiece for the Heavy Gang.

Could you give your concise opinion of de Valera (in the style of the above) and his influence on the Irish psyche?

I couldn't because I don't know enough about him. Can you?

Esel · 23-10-2014 03:19AM

Karl Stein wrote: »

I couldn't because I don't know enough about him. Can you?

Of course you can, Father.

Go on, go on, go on.

porsche959 · 23-10-2014 04:25AM

Esel wrote: »

The Cruiser was just a mouthpiece for the Heavy Gang.

A mouthpiece that found his way into high government office.

Esel wrote: »

Could you give your concise opinion of de Valera (in the style of the above) and his influence on the Irish psyche?

Relevance being...

Esel · 23-10-2014 05:00AM

Esel wrote: »

The Cruiser was just a mouthpiece for the Heavy Gang.

porsche959 wrote: »

A mouthpiece that found his way into high government office.

Ah heyore, don't be thanking my post then asking hard questions!

Katanga:

Quinlan and his soldiers hung out to dry,
Fouga jets continue to fly.
Not much re-supply.
The tunnel, bullswool, live or die.

Cruiser goes home, no smear.
Lies low for a while, no fear.
Joins a party, gets elected.
Never has to feel rejected.

Esel wrote: »

Could you give your concise opinion of de Valera (in the style of the above) and his influence on the Irish psyche?

porsche959 wrote: »

Relevance being...

Maybe, just maybe, the history of the State? How a mathematician didn't seem to know that sixty four was greater than fifty seven? How a person's ego can lead them astray? Dancing at the crossroads, in his vision? People danced to death, on television - after he was too blind to see, but long after he realised that control of the media was vital for survival.

Section 31, in context.

porsche959 · 23-10-2014 06:29AM

Esel wrote: »

Ah heyore, don't be thanking my post then asking hard questions!

Katanga:

Quinlan and his soldiers hung out to dry,
Fouga jets continue to fly.
Not much re-supply.
The tunnel, bullswool, live or die.

Cruiser goes home, no smear.
Lies low for a while, no fear.
Joins a party, gets elected.
Never has to feel rejected.

Maybe, just maybe, the history of the State? How a mathematician didn't seem to know that sixty four was greater than fifty seven? How a person's ego can lead them astray? Dancing at the crossroads, in his vision? People danced to death, on television - after he was too blind to see, but long after he realised that control of the media was vital for survival.

Section 31, in context.

Thanks for the nice poetry, however, I still reckon that man was of the type that in many countries would have been shot at dawn for treachery.

Timberrrrrrrr · 23-10-2014 06:53AM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So you're saying Adams was in SF and the IRA?

So she didn't want anything to do with the IRA, but she called Gerry Adams, who was in the IRA, to her house?
Stopped digging yet?

And next week you you will be screaming about how there is no evidence GA was in the IRA :rolleyes:

Dan_Solo · 23-10-2014 07:04AM

Phoebas wrote: »

I doubt I could clarify it sufficiently for you.

I suppose Yes and No aren't in your dictionary.

Dan_Solo · 23-10-2014 07:07AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And next week you you will be screaming about how there is no evidence GA was in the IRA :rolleyes:

I'm not saying he was or wasn't. I'm asking why someone who didn't want any IRA involvement would call Gerry Adams unless Adams wasn't in the IRA.
What a pity nobody wants to answer. Almost as if they can't isn't it?

Timberrrrrrrr · 23-10-2014 07:13AM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I'm not saying he was or wasn't. I'm asking why someone who didn't want any IRA involvement would call Gerry Adams unless Adams wasn't in the IRA.
What a pity nobody wants to answer. Almost as if they can't isn't it?

Maybe she felt intimidated by the IRA and she (naively) thought their commander in chief would be able to help her get some justice for the brutal rape that she suffered at the hands of one of his men?

Dan_Solo · 23-10-2014 07:18AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Maybe she felt intimidated by the IRA and she (naively) thought their commander in chief would be able to help her get some justice for the brutal rape that she suffered at the hands of one of his men?

We're into "maybe" land I see.
Now Adams was Commander in Chief of the IRA? Interesting. I thought he always covered up IRA member crimes? Why would anybody call him for help?

Eamondomc · 23-10-2014 07:53AM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

We're into "maybe" land I see.
Now Adams was Commander in Chief of the IRA? Interesting. I thought he always covered up IRA member crimes? Why would anybody call him for help?

I d say that any republican living in northern ireland at the time would seek help from what they believed to be the people who would give them justice at the time. for most republicans that was sinn fein at that time. But you refuse to see the point dan that gerry covered this crime up for publicity reasons much like the catholic church did at that time. If this thread was about a priest or a bishop you would not defend them so get real and quit spilling your crap. regardless of what he was at the time she asked for his help and he didnt give it.

Timberrrrrrrr · 23-10-2014 08:10AM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

We're into "maybe" land I see.
Now Adams was Commander in Chief of the IRA? Interesting. I thought he always covered up IRA member crimes? Why would anybody call him for help?

You put your Gerry coloured glasses on early this morning i see, As i stated before, If GA was caught standing over a shallow grave with a dead body next to him and he had the murder weapon in one hand and a shovel in the other hand you would still proclaim his innocence and say it was a conspiracy against him.

byrne28 · 23-10-2014 08:28AM

Has anyone noticed how several online media outlets are not allowing any comment on the Maria Cahill allegations?. These sites would be known as Sinn Fein leaning but to not allow debate on a story is very strange and a dangerous precedent for them. As far as im aware this is not an ongoing investigation so there is no legal reason for this. Anyone any thoughts?

gunny558 · 23-10-2014 08:29AM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I'm not saying he was or wasn't. I'm asking why someone who didn't want any IRA involvement would call Gerry Adams unless Adams wasn't in the IRA.
What a pity nobody wants to answer. Almost as if they can't isn't it?

I dont really know a whole lot about this case. But I think Gerry Adams was a family friend? And that her cousin worked for Gerry? This being true perhaps it was her family who persuaded her to go to Gerry for help.

It doesnt matter whether he was a regular joe soap member, part of the army council, or not even a member at all- the one thing for sure is Gerry Adams had quite the influence on them.

If I was told right now, today, that there is an ex provo looking to harm me... Gerry Adams would be my first call to see could he "influence" or mediate the situation.

Happyman42 · 23-10-2014 09:05AM

Some interesting points raised in this blog, particularly those around the 'alleged' absence of remarks Maria Cahill attributed to Gerry Adams in her interviews with Suzanne Breen in the Sunday Tribune in 2010.
There are anomalies in her story that 'partisan' journalists need to question her about.
http://linkis.com/blogspot.co.uk/dDXhQ

Red Pepper · 23-10-2014 09:18AM

I have been a Sinn Fein supporter for the last 3 years or so but I have to say that the antics of Gerry Adams and some of the other Sinn Fein TDs has disgusted me this week. I do believe Ms Cahill is telling the truth and I also think Sinn Fein have treated her very badly. Some of the posters on here definitely have blinkers in the way they refuse to be objective. If she has been wronged (which seems obvious and continues), admit it and make it right. If it is true that Sinn Fein sent abusers and rapists to the Republic after they were convicted by the Sinn Fein courts, it will sicken me to the core.

Happyman42 · 23-10-2014 09:22AM

Red Pepper wrote: »

If it is true that Sinn Fein sent abusers and rapists to the Republic after they were convicted by the Sinn Fein courts, it will sicken me to the core.

I don't think even she is saying that.

Dan_Solo · 23-10-2014 09:30AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You put your Gerry coloured glasses on early this morning i see, As i stated before, If GA was caught standing over a shallow grave with a dead body next to him and he had the murder weapon in one hand and a shovel in the other hand you would still proclaim his innocence and say it was a conspiracy against him.

07:18? Is that early where you come from? First time I've heard "you get up early" used as a jibe. Funny for all the wrong reasons.
If a hippo jumped into your back yard you'd feed it choc ices and paint abstract impressionist art on its arse. If if if if bollix.

Red Pepper · 23-10-2014 09:31AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

I don't think even she is saying that.

Please please don't deflect, you must see how it looks, don't make it worse. I didn't say she was. She is only saying she was raped and abused and Sinn Fein appear to want to discredit that

The exporting of abuses and rapists is an allegation you would have heard yesterday;
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/adams-challenged-to-reveal-if-sex-abusers-were-sent-to-republic-of-ireland-30686332.html

Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams has been challenged to reveal if sex offenders expelled by the IRA were subsequently moved to the Republic. Taoiseach Enda Kenny demanded that Mr Adams confirm whether abusers who committed crimes in Northern Ireland were placed in safe houses in Donegal, Louth and Dublin.

The claim was made during one of the most dramatic Dail sittings in recent years, as Sinn Fein struggles to deal with the fallout of the Mairia Cahill affair.

raymon · 23-10-2014 09:34AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

I don't think even she is saying that.

Ah jaysus Happyman and Dan . This is getting tedious now

Gerry said the following in his blog
"
The IRA on occasion shot alleged sex offenders or expelled them.

While this may have been expedient at the time it was not appropriate. Victims were left without the necessary social service support and abusers without supervision. It ultimately failed victims and the community alike. That is a matter of profound regret for me, and many other republicans."

Happyman42 · 23-10-2014 09:34AM

Red Pepper wrote: »

Please please don't deflect, you must see how it looks, don't make it worse. I didn't say she was. She is only saying she was raped and abused and Sinn Fein appear to want to discredit that

The exporting of abuses and rapists is an allegation you would have heard yesterday;
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/adams-challenged-to-reveal-if-sex-abusers-were-sent-to-republic-of-ireland-30686332.html

You appear to want to discredit SF, where does it say in that article that SF expelled abusers and rapists or even tried them?

Happyman42 · 23-10-2014 09:36AM

raymon wrote: »

Ah jaysus Happyman and Dan . This is getting tedious now

Gerry said the following in his blog
"
The IRA on occasion shot alleged sex offenders or expelled them.

While this may have been expedient at the time it was not appropriate. Victims were left without the necessary social service support and abusers without supervision. It ultimately failed victims and the community alike. That is a matter of profound regret for me, and many other republicans."

Maria Cahill herself, makes two allegations, one about what the IRA did and one about what SF and Gerry Adams did.

SF didn't expel or try anybody.

raymon · 23-10-2014 09:47AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Maria Cahill herself, makes two allegations, one about what the IRA did and one about what SF and Gerry Adams did.

SF didn't expel or try anybody.

Silly me, Gerry was never in the IRA ...... Never ever .

What a silly mistake for me to make.

Timberrrrrrrr · 23-10-2014 09:49AM

raymon wrote: »

Silly me, Gerry was never in the IRA ...... Never ever .

What a silly mistake for me to make.

That can't be right, even one of his biggest supporters on here has said he was

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So you're saying Adams was in SF and the IRA?

So she didn't want anything to do with the IRA, but she called Gerry Adams, who was in the IRA, to her house?
Stopped digging yet?

More Crap on Adams, Mod Warning in OP.

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