Water meter protests

SpaceTime · 14-10-2014 12:42PM

Water infrastructure is a mess because planning is a mess not because of the billing system.

We built houses in ridiculous locations and we expanded cities, particularly Dublin, without building the necessary water infrastructure.

There was never any issue funding it other than that because water infrastructure isn't as visible as shiny new motorways or new trains with go faster stripes painted on that the politicians didn't allocate resources to build it.

Where did all the development levies, stamp duty etc etc that was charged on new build go?

Irish Water will not resolve bad planning. If we repeat what we did over the last two decades we'll have water shortages and polluted lakes all over again.

Dublin basically added pretty much all of west Dublin's housing stock without building as much as a reservoir and now they're blaming high consumption and lack of metering without any evidence really.

seamus · 14-10-2014 01:07PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Why is a private company controlling Ireland's water supply then?

It seems to me that you don't have the guts to stand up for what's right so instead of just admitting that you are going to acquiesce you try to justify your position by attacking those who are opposed to paying for water.

I will stand up for what's right when the wrong thing is being done.

The correct thing right now is being done, and as I've said on other threads I actually don't have a problem if IW is ultimately privatised, provided that it's done properly.

I'm not attacking those who are opposed to paying for water, just pointing out that their arguments have little logical substance. The argument is almost entirely emotive and bereft of realistic alternatives. "I won't pay because I don't want to", appears to be at the core.

The IMF have ordered EVERYTHING in Ireland to be privatised. This isn't about helping a crippled economy, though such an excuse is an easy one to fool people such as you with, this is about asset stripping, plain and simple.

That's conspiracy theory nonsense. Please show me the documentation where the IMF ordered privatisation of everything.

If some corporation came in and started fracking and polluting every drop of water in the land and making off with billions in shale gas and leaving the country resembling a lunar landscape you would probably say "we need energy!!" or "it creates jobs".

Oh look, a straw man.

Debate the facts of the matter, don't make up imaginary arguments.

Timberrrrrrrr · 14-10-2014 01:26PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Why is a private company controlling Ireland's water supply then?

It seems to me that you don't have the guts to stand up for what's right so instead of just admitting that you are going to acquiesce you try to justify your position by attacking those who are opposed to paying for water.

And please stop trotting out that tired and nonsensical canard that "our infrastructure is a mess unless we pay for it" bollocks.

The IMF have ordered EVERYTHING in Ireland to be privatised. This isn't about helping a crippled economy, though such an excuse is an easy one to fool people such as you with, this is about asset stripping, plain and simple.

If some corporation came in and started fracking and polluting every drop of water in the land and making off with billions in shale gas and leaving the country resembling a lunar landscape you would probably say "we need energy!!" or "it creates jobs".

Stopped reading there, Another one who will trot this lie out for 15 pages.

Little CuChulainn · 14-10-2014 01:40PM

Egginacup wrote: »

The IMF have ordered EVERYTHING in Ireland to be privatised.

No they didn't. It's these blatant lies combined with chronic misunderstanding of laws that do the most damage to the anti charge movement.

boardzz · 14-10-2014 09:56PM

renegademaster wrote: »

lets not! lets try vote some decent people into power not controlled by party whips

Can you give any examples of who you think I should vote for?

Timberrrrrrrr · 14-10-2014 10:09PM

boardzz wrote: »

Can you give any examples of who you think I should vote for?

And more importantly

Why?

Dickie10 · 14-10-2014 11:11PM

yes id love to know who these anti crowd would want to vote in. I think Irish Water is a good idea if carried out properly, lets give it a chance. a few years ago i do remember people not wanting to pay bin charges...absurd. a few years time people will say how absurd it was not to pay for water. when i have to treat my well water and power it where do i get by tax back receipt?

Grimreaper666 · 14-10-2014 11:19PM

But the thing is we've already paid for our water in the various levies imposed on us and as others have mentioned in the levies and taxes on new houses. Why should we have to pay all over again and even worse to a private company who haven't produced a drop of water yet and have had millions literally poured into them. I can see this Irish water fiasco turning into the biggest scam in the history of the state!

FREETV · 15-10-2014 02:09AM

Educate yourselves the water is unsafe and undrinkable, read back and look at the links provided already.
It is the chemicals used to try to mass medicate and disinfect the water which are highly toxic.
We already pay 1.2 Billion a year for water so this is just another austerity measure and immoral Tax. :mad:

March on November 1 and vote these cretins out.

Grimreaper666 is correct, it is a total scam directly under the noses of the Public.

Timberrrrrrrr · 15-10-2014 06:39AM

FREETV wrote: »

Educate yourselves the water is unsafe and undrinkable, read back and look at the links provided already.
It is the chemicals used to try to mass medicate and disinfect the water which are highly toxic.
We already pay 1.2 Billion a year for water so this is just another austerity measure and immoral Tax. :mad:

March on November 1 and vote these cretins out.

Grimreaper666 is correct, it is a total scam directly under the noses of the Public.

More conspiracy theory nonsense.

Timberrrrrrrr · 15-10-2014 06:42AM

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

But the thing is we've already paid for our water in the various levies imposed on us and as others have mentioned in the levies and taxes on new houses. Why should we have to pay all over again and even worse to a private company who haven't produced a drop of water yet and have had millions literally poured into them. I can see this Irish water fiasco turning into the biggest scam in the history of the state!

You have paid for the water and infrastructure that you have used up until now. What was paid before wasn't enough and therefore the.water charges are being bought in to pay for the water (including treatment and new infrastructure and repairs to old) that you will use in the future.

renegademaster · 15-10-2014 10:58AM

Dickie10 wrote: »

yes id love to know who these anti crowd would want to vote in. I think Irish Water is a good idea if carried out properly, lets give it a chance. a few years ago i do remember people not wanting to pay bin charges...absurd. a few years time people will say how absurd it was not to pay for water. when i have to treat my well water and power it where do i get by tax back receipt?

Denis O Brien woud probably roll aroudn on the floor laughing if he seen such innocence

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You have paid for the water and infrastructure that you have used up until now. What was paid before wasn't enough and therefore the.water charges are being bought in to pay for the water (including treatment and new infrastructure and repairs to old) that you will use in the future.

the water charges are being brought in to cover the trickle our government gave back to us in the budget yesterday, and also to set up the national resource to sell to the highest bidder asap.

Timberrrrrrrr · 15-10-2014 11:09AM

renegademaster wrote: »

Denis O Brien woud probably roll aroudn on the floor laughing if he seen such innocence

the water charges are being brought in to cover the trickle our government gave back to us in the budget yesterday, and also to set up the national resource to sell to the highest bidder asap.

OK

The water infrastructure is basically ****ed you will agree?

Money needs to be spent to upgrade and improve this you will agree?

There is not enough money coming in at the moment to do this you will agree?

How would you sort this out if you were in government? Would you raise taxes? Or just let the antiquated system we have get worse and worse?

Larbre34 · 15-10-2014 11:23AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

OK

The water infrastructure is basically ****ed you will agree?

Money needs to be spent to upgrade and improve this you will agree?

There is not enough money coming in at the moment to do this you will agree?

How would you sort this out if you were in government? Would you raise taxes? Or just let the antiquated system we have get worse and worse?

Your assessment is correct, however -

For starters I wouldn't dare come to an already bled dry population and ask them to pay for a decrepit and dysfunctional system.

A comprehensive water infrastructure renewal programme should be been planned using existing idle resources at the National Roads Authority, and funded as a construction stimulus using borrowings from the European Investment Bank.

Then when the system was more or less up to western european standards, metering should have been introduced by the local authorities and the charges levied on the basis of consumption, not on the cost to run some daft unneccessary quango which resembles HSE II 'The Revenge'

On the political side, based on the budget measure to introduce reliefs on charges, and that Joan Burton said this morning they would 'look again' at further relieving the burden of the proposed charges on the worst off, my assessment is that the Govt are massively rattled and worried about the backlash which is unfolding. Labour's very future could rest on it, backbenchers of both parties are turning a bit pale and already nervous of far left wing candidates popping up in their districts. They are turning to run scared, and now is the time to fatally destroy the whole process.

Timberrrrrrrr · 15-10-2014 11:28AM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Your assessment is correct, however -

For starters I wouldn't dare come to an already bled dry population and ask them to pay for a decrepit and dysfunctional system.

A comprehensive water infrastructure renewal programme should be been planned using existing idle resources at the National Roads Authority, and funded as a construction stimulus using borrowings from the European Investment Bank.

Then when the system was more or less up to western european standards, metering should have been introduced by the local authorities and the charges levied on the basis of consumption, not on the cost to run some daft unneccessary quango which resembles HSE II 'The Revenge'

So your plan to help get the country out of debt is to borrow more money?

suicide_circus · 15-10-2014 11:29AM

Have they considered using water cannon on these protesters?

Timberrrrrrrr · 15-10-2014 11:31AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Have they considered using water cannon on these protesters?

Would be the only wash some of them got going by the videos they post on youtube.

FREETV · 15-10-2014 11:39AM

If the Public give in to these thugs in the Dail and start paying for water then they will only have themselves to blame when in the near future Irish Water will be sold and the water prices will sky rocket.
Why? As they are entirely corrupted!
Only an idiot would believe a word that spews out of their mouths.
Enda has a smirk akin to CJ.

Maybe people should keep a few fireworks for the marches on Nov1 Nationwide.

Gardai would love those!

Timberrrrrrrr · 15-10-2014 11:42AM

FREETV wrote: »

If the Public give in to these thugs in the Dail and start paying for water then they will only have themselves to blame when in the near future Irish Water will be sold and the water prices will sky rocket.
Why because they are as corrupt as hell!
Only an idiot would believe a word that spews out of there mouths.
Enda has a smirk akin to CJ.

Maybe people should keep a few fireworks for the marches on Nov1 Nationwide.

Gardai would love those!

Advocating people bring illegal explosives to a peaceful march?

Stay classy :rolleyes:

FREETV · 15-10-2014 11:45AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Advocating people bring illegal explosives to a peaceful march?

Stay classy :rolleyes:

They will have a few leftover fireworks probably from the following day.

Iwasfrozen · 15-10-2014 11:48AM

FREETV wrote: »

They will have a few leftover fireworks probably from the following day.

If people bring fireworks you won't be able to have a peaceful protest. Cop on.

suicide_circus · 15-10-2014 11:48AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Advocating people bring illegal explosives to a peaceful march?

Stay classy :rolleyes:

Ah goway wiyh your "explosives", it's not like these guys have access to semtex

Timberrrrrrrr · 15-10-2014 11:53AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Ah goway wiyh your "explosives", it's not like these guys have access to semtex

So you think it should be ok for protesters to bring fireworks (which whether you like it or not is classed as an explosive and are illegal in Ireland) to a peaceful protest where there will be children present? The no side starting to show some true colours methinks.

FREETV · 15-10-2014 01:32PM

People, you need to go to the story over at the Irish Independents website as it now turns out that Irish water are going to be allowed to raise the prices of water every year!

BoJack Horseman · 15-10-2014 01:35PM

FREETV wrote: »

People, you need to go to the story over at the Irish Independents website as it now turns out that Irish water are going to be allowed to raise the prices of water every year!

Meanwhile outrage as NASA declare they can ABORT a mission whenever they feel like it!

Little CuChulainn · 15-10-2014 01:37PM

I still don't why people are so obsessed with Dennis O'Brein. His link to Irish Water is the equivalent of the plumber who put in the first fix on your house.

FREETV · 15-10-2014 01:39PM

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-water-will-be-allowed-raise-prices-every-year-29798831.html

VinLieger · 15-10-2014 01:40PM

FREETV wrote: »

People, you need to go to the story over at the Irish Independents website as it now turns out that Irish water are going to be allowed to raise the prices of water every year!

You've posted this twice with no link and there's nothing on the independents homepage

FREETV · 15-10-2014 01:44PM

VinLieger wrote: »

You've posted this twice with no link and there's nothing on the independents homepage

Here is the link again.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-water-will-be-allowed-raise-prices-every-year-29798831.html

Little CuChulainn · 15-10-2014 01:45PM

That story is from 10 months ago. It's already been discussed here plenty.

Water meter protests

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