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mob hacks off rapist's genitals with meat cleaver after dragging him into butchers

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    #62
    Hitchens
    Registered Users Posts: 7,983 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »
    Huh? All Enda said was this isn't "guaranteed" to be a deterrent, and used the example of how the death penalty isn't a murder deterrent.
    Ok, his manner was condescending but what's points-scoring about what he said?
    And what on earth does this being a forum have to do with anything? Yeh it is a forum - so people will give their views.
    It being different to the real world or people not remembering it or people not caring (neither of the latter two are true by the way) - these don't change the relevance of what Enda has said.

    :confused:

    no need to drag the Taoiseach into it :pac:


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    #63
    dm09
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭dm09


    moxin wrote: »
    Not the same, castration removes the urge for sex crime. Thats a good thing.

    Rape is rarely about sexual desire, a lot of the time it can be about the rapist wanting to dominate, humiliate or have power and control over their victim.

    To say that rape is merely about sexual desire is simplifying it, and just because someone has been castrated doesn't mean they are no longer capable of committing sexual crimes.


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    #64
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,240 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Roquentin wrote: »
    that being condescending and facetious on an internet forum, doesnt carry the same weight as in the real world, largely in part to the fact that we are anonymous. If i asked you to remember what a poster wrote one month ago, you will struggle. if i asked you to remember what a friend said face to face one month ago, you could probably remember this gist of the conversation(not word for word, but nobody can do that). I suppose the point is, that engaging in puerile point scoring replies on internet forums is utterly futile because

    A) Nobody remembers anything that is posted (try yourself)
    B) Based on A. nobody gives cares.

    And that has what exactly to do with the topic under discussion? I don't care what you posted a month ago. I was responding to the daft post you submitted today. There's no point in getting snippy because you were called out on the daftness of your daft post. Which was daft. In case you missed that bit.

    :D


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    #65
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,240 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »
    Huh? All Enda said was this isn't "guaranteed" to be a deterrent, and used the example of how the death penalty isn't a murder deterrent.
    Ok, his manner was condescending but what's points-scoring about what he said?
    And what on earth does this being a forum have to do with anything? Yeh it is a forum - so people will give their views.
    It being different to the real world or people not remembering it or people not caring (neither of the latter two are true by the way) - these don't change the relevance of what Enda has said.

    :confused:

    True. I was a little condescending. I couldn't help it in the face of so much daftness.

    :(


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    #66
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,290 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Proper justice


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    #67
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Oh god it's disturbing the way people are so supportive of the hacking off of a man's genitals - no matter what he did (and he didn't actually do anything).
    endacl wrote: »
    True. I was a little condescending. I couldn't help it in the face of so much daftness.

    :(
    I wasn't saying that critically. ;)


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    #68
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »
    Oh god it's disturbing the way people are so supportive of the hacking off of a man's genitals - no matter what he did (and he didn't actually do anything).

    I wasn't saying that critically. ;)

    Don't think of it as being supportive of the hacking off of a man's genitals. Think of it as the prevention of future rapes.

    This poor man couldn't control his genitals, and now, he has been relieved of the burden. I can't imagine anyone *wants* to be driven to the point of raping young women. That must have been horrible for him, and now, these people, his community, have helped to relieve him.

    Castration has been shown to be an effective treatment (not 100% - but very effective for most rapists). This guy will live a better life without the urges he can't control - and the future women he would have assaulted are probably safe...AND, as an added bonus, other people with similar urges will have another reason to try and resist them.

    What is the down side?


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    #69
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    UCDVet wrote: »
    This poor man couldn't control his genitals, and now, he has been relieved of the burden. I can't imagine anyone *wants* to be driven to the point of raping young women. That must have been horrible for him, and now, these people, his community, have helped to relieve him.

    Castration has been shown to be an effective treatment (not 100% - but very effective for most rapists). This guy will live a better life without the urges he can't control - and the future women he would have assaulted are probably safe...AND, as an added bonus, other people with similar urges will have another reason to try and resist them.
    Probably on a wind-up (you do that) but you're insulting your gender to insinuate there are men who can't control their genitals.


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    #70
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »
    Probably on a wind-up (you do that) but you're insulting your gender to insinuate there are men who can't control their genitals.

    Who doesn't enjoy a good wind-up? But the truth is, some percentage of rapists claim that they can't control themselves. Here is a quote from one:
    But the reality of the situation is that women have to be careful because guys are one way when they're hanging out and another way when they're horny or worse drunk and horny. That doesn't make what happened okay, but it is what it is.

    Beyond that, castration (chemical or otherwise) has been shown to:
    When used on men, these drugs can reduce sex drive, compulsive sexual fantasies, and capacity for sexual arousal.

    So yeah - believe it or not, some men can't control themselves. And castration seems to be a viable solution.
    A 2005 study printed in the Journal of the American Academy of Psychology and the Law, found that between zero and 10 percent of sexual offenders who are surgically castrated repeat their crime.

    It's more effective than anything else we've got (short of death). Including therapy. Castration works better than years of therapy in preventing repeat sexual offenders from repeating.


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    #71
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    But lots can control themselves and completely choose to rape. And you don't know which type of rapist this man is.


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    #72
    98q76e12hrflnk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭98q76e12hrflnk


    I have absolutely no problem with it. If someones that's sick that they have to rape someone which will leave mental scars , possible physical scars to the victim well the the perpetrator should have the same pleasure.


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    #73
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »
    But lots can control themselves and completely choose to rape. And you don't know which type of rapist this man is.

    If he can't control himself - castration will probably help.

    If he can control himself and chooses to rape - knowing that rapists are beaten within inches of the death and have body parts removed - well, that's a really good, rational reason, not to rape.

    No deterrent is ever going to be 100% - but I don't see any reason to think this wouldn't be effective. Depending on what they cut off, it's very likely he won't be physically able, to rape a girl again (at least not using his penis).


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    #74
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    anncoates wrote: »
    No pity for the rapist but you get the feeling that the animal urges of the punished and the punishers in these cases are somewhat similar albeit that the latter opportunistically exploits a pseudo - moral premise.
    anncoates wrote: »
    No pity for the rapist but you get the feeling that the animal urges of the punished and the punishers in these cases are somewhat similar albeit that the latter opportunistically exploits a pseudo - moral premise.

    Being hungry is an animal urge. Wanting to pee is an animal urge. We are animals. Well, mammals. The bit about the "pseudo moral premise" is just gobbledygook. If you are trying to say that mob justice is just animal brutality trying to appear as justice, well just say that. I wouldn't agree. The degree to which we can say humans have exclusive claim to a sense of justice is debatable. The roots of all morality lie in our nature: trying to separate us from our animal nature is silly. Controlling guiding and managing our animal nature is what civilisation is about. The problem with mob justice is that it can get it very wrong. But then that "appalling vista" is found elsewhere too. If that guy was the rapist I have no sympathy for him. If it marks a change in India from the reported acceptance of rape then that is good too.


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    #75
    Its Only Ray Parlour
    Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭Its Only Ray Parlour


    Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »
    Oh god it's disturbing the way people are so supportive of the hacking off of a man's genitals - no matter what he did (and he didn't actually do anything).

    Rapists usually get away with it in India so I wouldn't stress about it if I were you.


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    #76
    Yarf Yarf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭Yarf Yarf


    India needs to find a balance between doing nothing and going to extremes. Either the police are doing jack **** about sexual violence against women or the mob are taking it into their own hands and carrying out a barbaric form of 'justice'. The police and government need to get their act together in that county and start dealing with this problem properly instead of sitting, doing nothing. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if there are people in powerful positions in that country that actually think there's nothing wrong with what happens to some women there.


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    #77
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Cantremember wrote: »
    If you are trying to say that mob justice is just animal brutality trying to appear as justice, well just say that..

    I did.


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    #78
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »
    And you don't know which type of rapist this man is.

    How many variation of rapists are there?


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    #79
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    How many variation of rapists are there?
    That poster said some rapists can't control themselves and just decided the man in this case was one of those rapists.
    I pointed out other rapists can control themselves but choose to rape, and we don't know which of the two the guy in this story is.


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    #80
    CollyFlower
    Registered Users Posts: 6,021 ✭✭✭CollyFlower


    Can anyone not see what is happening here? that guy wasn't castrated, if he was he'd be in agony on the floor...... This is a propaganda stunt!


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    #81
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    CollyFlower wrote: »
    Can anyone not see what is happening here? that guy wasn't castrated, if he was he'd be in agony on the floor
    Yeh, I was struck by how non distressed the guy looked (and standing up/walking) considering the worst thing that could be done to a man had just been done to him... :confused:


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    #82
    GetWithIt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭GetWithIt


    The last, somewhat artistic, photo had a byline which suggested it was taken before the mob applied their justice.


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    #83
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,732 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    Barbarity followed by barbarity.

    Individuals and states are in some circumstances justified in harming or killing a person. But the malicious, deliberate mutilation of a human being is never neccessary, never justified. I'd agree that the penalties for rapes and sexual assaults in this country tend to be far too lenient but justice can be and must be served without going all Ramsay Bolton on people.

    At what point does the individual/state/mob become as evil as the person they are punishing? If they cross this point then what's the difference between them and the apparent villain?


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    #84
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    DeadHand wrote: »
    Barbarity followed by barbarity.

    Individuals and states are in some circumstances justified in harming or killing a person. But the malicious, deliberate mutilation of a human being is never neccessary, never justified. I'd agree that the penalties for rapes and sexual assaults in this country tend to be far too lenient but justice can be and must be served without going all Ramsay Bolton on people.

    At what point does the individual/state/mob become as evil as the person they are punishing? If they cross this point then what's the difference between them and the apparent villain?

    What if it is the most effective means of preventing repeat offences? They've done studies, and it really is quite effective.


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    #85
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,411 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »
    That poster said some rapists can't control themselves and just decided the man in this case was one of those rapists.
    I pointed out other rapists can control themselves but choose to rape, and we don't know which of the two the guy in this story is.

    If someone's a rapist they obviously can't control themselves.


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    #86
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    DeadHand wrote: »
    deliberate mutilation of a human being is never neccessary, never justified. I'd agree that the penalties for rapes and sexual assaults in this country tend to be far too lenient but justice can be and must be served without going all Ramsay Bolton on people.
    Agreed. I think rape is reprehensible (obviously) but cannot agree with genital mutilation in revenge. A long prison sentence is the punishment a society which is above violence should bestow IMO.

    People who have been raped or are close to someone who has been raped may think differently due to being in a position of bias and not being able to stop their emotions from clouding judgement, but objectively, hacking genitals is just... how could someone bring themselves to actually do it?!


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    #87
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    kneemos wrote: »
    If someone's a rapist they obviously can't control themselves.
    "Obviously"? Well no, they can choose to force themselves on someone, or they can choose not to.


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    #88
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,411 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »
    Yeh, I was struck by how non distressed the guy looked (and standing up/walking) considering the worst thing that could be done to a man had just been done to him... :confused:

    He's in a critical state in hospital according to the article,didn't say why.


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    #89
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Yarf Yarf wrote: »
    India needs to find a balance between doing nothing and going to extremes. Either the police are doing jack **** about sexual violence against women or the mob are taking it into their own hands and carrying out a barbaric form of 'justice'. The police and government need to get their act together in that county and start dealing with this problem properly instead of sitting, doing nothing. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if there are people in powerful positions in that country that actually think there's nothing wrong with what happens to some women there.

    Life is cheap in India. A truly effed up place. Caste system, sexist, increasingly sectarian, true inhuman poverty, ridiculous corruption, wild inequality. India has so many problems its hard to know where to start.


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    #90
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,732 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    UCDVet wrote: »
    What if it is the most effective means of preventing repeat offences? They've done studies, and it really is quite effective.

    It isn't.

    Death or life imprisonment (true life imprisonment) are more effective ways of preventing repeat offences.


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    #91
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,411 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »
    "Obviously"? Well no, they can choose to force themselves on someone, or they can choose not to.

    If they choose not to they wouldn't be a rapist.


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