Israel bombs 160 sites in Gaza overnight. Mod Warnings in First Post.

gallag · 22-07-2014 03:18PM

wes wrote: »

Extremists were saying the same thing about peace with Egypt and that worked out fine. No wars with Egypt since the peace treaty last i checked.

I said yes, they should negotiate a peace deal. You are being rather obtuse about things. Also, as I said before the peace deal was on the table for 10 years.

Again, its good to know where certain people stand.

The peace deal with Egypt did not involve handing over such a vitally important strategic location as the Golan Heights! !!!!!!!! And your point about the deal being on the table for 10 years actually makes my point, within 10 years hindsight has proven that Israel was correct in not handing over the Golan Heights, complete radicals could be in power in Syria in short time creating a disaster for Israel! Do you not agree with the benefit of hindsight Israel was correct in thinking that relinquishing the Golan Heights would be to risky to enable the peace plan?

wes · 22-07-2014 03:30PM

gallag wrote: »

The peace deal with Egypt did not involve handing over such a vitally important strategic location as the Golan Heights! !!!!!!!!

Yes, yes, I have heard the extremist excuse against peace several times already. Once again, the Golan stop being strategic, when there is a peace deal.

gallag wrote: »

And your point about the deal being on the table for 10 years actually makes my point, within 10 years hindsight has proven that Israel was correct in not handing over the Golan Heights, complete radicals could be in power in Syria in short time creating a disaster for Israel!

Well, no it actually proves my point of the lack of interest in peace, as the deal is still on the table, and instability will not last forever in Syria.

gallag wrote: »

Do you not agree with the benefit of hindsight Israel was correct in thinking that relinquishing the Golan Heights would be to risky to enable the peace plan?

The peace plan isn't just about the Golan Heights, and secondly rejecting the peace deal was the wrong move. If, some radicals attacked Israel after making a peace deal, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on internationally, so a peace deal would have been the right move. Instead more excuses from those against peace.

Ping Chow Chi · 22-07-2014 04:45PM

Didn't Israel hand the Sinai Peninsula back to Egypt that boarders their country? And Egypt has gone through many turbulent changes resently ... and the peace has remained. The conculsion I would draw from this is that if you hand back captured territory, you can have a lasting peace.

seanaway · 22-07-2014 06:16PM

Ping Chow Chi wrote: »

Didn't Israel hand the Sinai Peninsula back to Egypt that boarders their country? And Egypt has gone through many turbulent changes resently ... and the peace has remained. The conculsion I would draw from this is that if you hand back captured territory, you can have a lasting peace.

Slightly different issues. The Golan heights are a strategic location. WHile the Sinai acted as a buffer it was not as strategically important as the Golan. The Israelis pretty much took Sinai off Egypt as the Egyptian army couldn't run away fast enough form the onslaught.

The Golan was harder to take and offers a point which overlooks Israel.

Syrai has also long been a much more vociferous anti-Israeli voice in the region.

Gringo180 · 22-07-2014 07:50PM

According to the Israeli ambassador to the United States, the IDF deserves the Nobel peace prize for its restraint in Gaza.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/dermer-idf-deserves-nobel-peace-prize-for-unimaginable-restraint/

wes · 22-07-2014 07:53PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

According to the Israeli ambassador to the United States, the IDF deserves the Nobel peace prize for its restraint in Gaza.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/dermer-idf-deserves-nobel-peace-prize-for-unimaginable-restraint/

I think the Ambassador is engaged in some real life trolling.

Gringo180 · 22-07-2014 08:06PM

wes wrote: »

I think the Ambassador is engaged in some real life trolling.

Its absolutely bonkers, these people are crazy.

seanaway · 22-07-2014 08:19PM

If you read the entire article much of what he says makes perfect sense to anyone who has seen the effects of a group like Hamas on civilians they are claiming to represent.

-- Hamas is “doing everything to put Palestinian civilians into harm’s way – by ignoring IDF warnings to evacuate, by forcing Palestinians to serve as human shields, and by placing missile batteries next to playgrounds, hospitals and homes,” he said. “And you know why Hamas is doing this? It’s not only because of the evil they represent – and it may not be politically correct, but they are evil. After all, an organization that is capable of producing scores of suicide bombers doesn’t care a whit about Palestinian civilians losing their lives.--

Gringo180 · 22-07-2014 08:24PM

seanaway wrote: »

If you read the entire article much of what he says makes perfect sense to anyone who has seen the effects of a group like Hamas on civilians they are claiming to represent.

-- Hamas is “doing everything to put Palestinian civilians into harm’s way – by ignoring IDF warnings to evacuate, by forcing Palestinians to serve as human shields, and by placing missile batteries next to playgrounds, hospitals and homes,” he said. “And you know why Hamas is doing this? It’s not only because of the evil they represent – and it may not be politically correct, but they are evil. After all, an organization that is capable of producing scores of suicide bombers doesn’t care a whit about Palestinian civilians losing their lives.--

He also points out that British forces flattened cities in Nazi Germany as a sort of justification to what the IDF are doing in Gaza, now I dont mean to be smart but that is one of the most ridiculous things I ever read (Hitler was on the move trying to occupy other countries). This man is a clown and an apologist of one of the worst atrocities in Gaza and I am quickly coming to the opinion you are too. You continue to defend the indefensible.

seanaway · 22-07-2014 08:32PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

He also points out that British forces flattened cities in Nazi Germany as a sort of justification to what the IDF are doing in Gaza, now I dont mean to be smart but that is one of the most ridiculous things I ever read (Hitler was on the move trying to occupy other countries). This man is a clown and an apologist of one of the worst atrocities in Gaza and I am quickly coming to the opinion you are too. You continue to defend the indefensible.

No. You are reading into the article what you want. His pooint is that if Israel did bomb they wouldn't be the first to have done it.

His point is they are NOT doing it but providing warnings in multiple ways to civilians to avoid casualties. Of course, Hamas sympathisers like yourself will only ever have a narrow hate filled view and will even find a 'reason' for the following:

The report added that IDF soldiers being treated in Israeli hospitals for injuries sustained when fighting in Gaza said they encountered 13- and 14-year-old Palestinian children running at them wearing explosives-laden suicide-bomber belts.

Hamas must have great love for the children in their midst to send them out like this. Brave booys aren't they? Cowardly scum of the earth every one of them.

Gringo180 · 22-07-2014 08:38PM

seanaway wrote: »

No. You are reading into the article what you want. His pooint is that if Israel did bomb they wouldn't be the first to have done it.

His point is they are NOT doing it but providing warnings in multiple ways to civilians to avoid casualties. Of course, Hamas sympathisers like yourself will only ever have a narrow hate filled view and will even find a 'reason' for the following:

The report added that IDF soldiers being treated in Israeli hospitals for injuries sustained when fighting in Gaza said they encountered 13- and 14-year-old Palestinian children running at them wearing explosives-laden suicide-bomber belts.

Hamas must have great love for the children in their midst to send them out like this. Brave booys aren't they? Cowardly scum of the earth every one of them.

I am in no way a Hamas sympathiser. I am however a sympathiser of the 100's of innocent civilians been massacred in Gaza, full families getting wiped out, 4 young children slaughtered on the beach, an injured civilian trying to help people in the rubble only for him to be shot to death like a dog by the oh so brave snipers of the IDF.

You say Hamas uses civilians as human shields, well what about those 4 boys playing on the beach who were slaughtered?

wes · 22-07-2014 09:30PM

seanaway wrote: »

No. You are reading into the article what you want. His pooint is that if Israel did bomb they wouldn't be the first to have done it.

Except for all the times, that Israel has attacked first.....

seanaway wrote: »

His point is they are NOT doing it but providing warnings in multiple ways to civilians to avoid casualties. Of course, Hamas sympathisers like yourself will only ever have a narrow hate filled view and will even find a 'reason' for the following:

Calling people Hamas sympathizers is really just pathetic, and secondly in regards to the so called warnings. You do realize that any attack on civilians warning or no is a war crime. To add to that, the people of Gaza have no where to go. Finally, the IDF has no issue shooting up cafes showing the world cup or children playing some footie on the beach.

seanaway wrote: »

The report added that IDF soldiers being treated in Israeli hospitals for injuries sustained when fighting in Gaza said they encountered 13- and 14-year-old Palestinian children running at them wearing explosives-laden suicide-bomber belts.

As I said before, the IDF are known liars, get back to me when you have a independent 3rd party source, that hasn't murdered children playing football on a beach.

seanaway wrote: »

Hamas must have great love for the children in their midst to send them out like this. Brave booys aren't they? Cowardly scum of the earth every one of them.

If true (big if there without a independent 3rd party source to verify the claims), there just as bad as the IDF, who murder children on beaches.....

brian ireland · 22-07-2014 10:18PM

I have a friend who lives in Gaza, he is Muslim but I am not (not that it matters) He volunteers for freedom aid in Gaza. They have no money or income so I try and send some money over when I can to buy food for his family.
They are peaceful and very nice people. I ring every day to get updates but I have to say its a bit depressing hearing the stories about the people being slaughtered and the fear in his voice as the bombs explode behind him while on the phone.
He told me they have nowhere to go and are just waiting to die. Yesterday they decided to go to a UN school as it might have some protection, they did but tonight they returned home to shower and get some food. Just an hour ago Israel bombed his street with white phosphor now he his father and grandfather are choking from the chemical. He posted some gruesome photo on Facebook of his friends and neighbors dismembered bodies. Kids with their arms, stomach, legs all in pieces blown to bits. I can’t repost them because my Facebook friends would be too shocked and sickened.
I can’t pray for them him and his family because I don’t pray. With all the debate about who is to blame these poor people are suffering for the crime of being born in Gaza.

Gringo180 · 22-07-2014 10:27PM

brian ireland wrote: »

I have a friend who lives in Gaza, he is Muslim but I am not (not that it matters) He volunteers for freedom aid in Gaza. They have no money or income so I try and send some money over when I can to buy food for his family.
They are peaceful and very nice people. I ring every day to get updates but I have to say its a bit depressing hearing the stories about the people being slaughtered and the fear in his voice as the bombs explode behind him while on the phone.
He told me they have nowhere to go and are just waiting to die. Yesterday they decided to go to a UN school as it might have some protection, they did but tonight they returned home to shower and get some food. Just an hour ago Israel bombed his street with white phosphor now he his father and grandfather are choking from the chemical. He posted some gruesome photo on Facebook of his friends and neighbors dismembered bodies. Kids with their arms, stomach, legs all in pieces blown to bits. I can’t repost them because my Facebook friends would be too shocked and sickened.
I can’t pray for them him and his family because I don’t pray. With all the debate about who is to blame these poor people are suffering for the crime of being born in Gaza.

Heart breaking stuff.

Can I ask you a question if you don't mind, how do you send money over to your friend, I thought Western Union don't allow money transfer into Gaza.

brian ireland · 22-07-2014 10:35PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

Heart breaking stuff.

Can I ask you a question if you don't mind, how do you send money over to your friend, I thought Western Union don't allow money transfer into Gaza.

I use Western Union. €100 cost €106.20 and gets there within minutes.

Gringo180 · 22-07-2014 10:37PM

brian ireland wrote: »

I use Western Union. €100 cost €106.20 and gets there within minutes.

Cheers. I would say that 100 euro would go a long way for them, fair play.

BlaasForRafa · 22-07-2014 10:57PM

wes wrote: »

As I said before, the IDF are known liars, get back to me when you have a independent 3rd party source, that hasn't murdered children playing football on a beach.

Way to go with the sweeping generalisations there. All IDF soldiers are liars, right yeah. I'd believe the guys wounded in combat before I'd believe you that's for sure.

There have also been reports of Hamas putting explosive belts on animals and sending them towards IDF forces and there was film of Hamas terrorists wearing IDF uniforms and infiltrating Israel via a tunnel.

wes · 22-07-2014 11:13PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Way to go with the sweeping generalisations there. All IDF soldiers are liars, right yeah. I'd believe the guys wounded in combat before I'd believe you that's for sure.

I was clearly referring to the organization, who are known liars, and not every individual who is a member.
As for believing me, I could care less. The IDF have been caught out being less than truthful numerous times in the past, and many of the current claims during the current campaign have been exposed as being untrue.

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

There have also been reports of Hamas putting explosive belts on animals and sending them towards IDF forces and there was film of Hamas terrorists wearing IDF uniforms and infiltrating Israel via a tunnel.

Yes, all of those have been confirmed, hence why I didn't dispute that. I, however have yet to see wide reporting to the claims that I was addressing, which I would expect if it was true.

gallag · 23-07-2014 07:31AM

Gringo180 wrote: »

an injured civilian trying to help people in the rubble only for him to be shot to death like a dog by the oh so brave snipers of the IDF.

Well if you believe propaganda so easily I can understand your anger! That video didn't strike you as odd? Not weird how they all spoke English? Or no blood after being shot three times? Do you honestly believe Hamas are beyond propaganda? Or do you have a default of Hamas =good Israel = bad?

NIMAN · 23-07-2014 09:01AM

There will always be propaganda in every conflict, from all sides. Its par for the course.

Saw a clip the other day of a mother crying over a supposedly dead body wrapped in cloth, but you could see the eyes opening and looking around for a second.

R P McMurphy · 23-07-2014 09:50AM

gallag wrote: »

Well if you believe propaganda so easily I can understand your anger! That video didn't strike you as odd? Not weird how they all spoke English? Or no blood after being shot three times? Do you honestly believe Hamas are beyond propaganda? Or do you have a default of Hamas =good Israel = bad?

That video now appears to be verified horrific stuff

hatrickpatrick · 23-07-2014 10:55AM

walshb wrote: »

The money and arms is to help Israel defend against all of its neighbors.

BS in my opinion. The money and arms - as well as the snivelling attitude of American politicians towards Israel - is to placate an unduly powerful political lobby group, the support of which seems to be a fundamental requirement for political success.
Some democracy.

Gringo180 · 23-07-2014 05:49PM

gallag wrote: »

Well if you believe propaganda so easily I can understand your anger! That video didn't strike you as odd? Not weird how they all spoke English? Or no blood after being shot three times? Do you honestly believe Hamas are beyond propaganda? Or do you have a default of Hamas =good Israel = bad?

As you see below it was real, I know propaganda when I see it and that shooting certainly wasn't. Hamas aren't good only a fool would say otherwise, I want to see a peace from both sides and a 2 state solution where Palestinian land is given back to them, where they have equal rights as there Israeli counterparts. No justice, no peace, its that simple.

R P McMurphy wrote: »

That video now appears to be verified horrific stuff

steveblack · 23-07-2014 06:21PM

Hamas tax the smugglers who use the tunnels, israeli politicians buy weapons, get kickbacks and jobs with the manufacturers. Too much money being made on both sides by the powers that be for this to ever end.
Seen photos of a devastated israeli family burying their dead soldier son, heartbreaking scenes. The exact same funerals are happening in Gaza, politicians on both sides dont care , money to be made.

seanaway · 23-07-2014 09:34PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

As you see below it was real, I know propaganda when I see it and that shooting certainly wasn't. Hamas aren't good only a fool would say otherwise, I want to see a peace from both sides and a 2 state solution where Palestinian land is given back to them, where they have equal rights as there Israeli counterparts. No justice, no peace, its that simple.

Eh???

Where is the proof of an Israeli sniper???

This is speculation and nothing more than that.

We are talking about HAMAS. This is a group taht sends children of 13/14 out as suicide bombers. A group that sends 16 year olds out in tunnels to snipe at civilians.

Has anyone considered the possibilty it was a Hamas sniper???

Doubt anyone has.

That said, if it was an Israeli sniper - court and life sentence if found guilty of murder.

Nodin · 23-07-2014 10:23PM

seanaway wrote: »

...................

That said, if it was an Israeli sniper - court and life sentence if found guilty of murder.

What gives you that idea?

tayto lover · 23-07-2014 10:28PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Way to go with the sweeping generalisations there. All IDF soldiers are liars, right yeah. I'd believe the guys wounded in combat before I'd believe you that's for sure.

There have also been reports of Hamas putting explosive belts on animals and sending them towards IDF forces and there was film of Hamas terrorists wearing IDF uniforms and infiltrating Israel via a tunnel.

What do you expect them to do?
Would you like them to bend over altogether?
Of course they are going to fight back and use any tactic they can against the a much larger and well armed force. They are defending their people after all.

Gringo180 · 23-07-2014 10:34PM

seanaway wrote: »

Eh???

Where is the proof of an Israeli sniper???

You would of thought by now that the IDF would of came out publicly and denied involvement. Anyway's this is the IDF we are talking about, there every bit as bad if not worse than Hamas.

BlaasForRafa · 23-07-2014 11:23PM

tayto lover wrote: »

What do you expect them to do?
Would you like them to bend over altogether?
Of course they are going to fight back and use any tactic they can against the a much larger and well armed force. They are defending their people after all.

The aren't defending a people, they're fighting for their own ideological reasons. Rather than defending the people of Gaza they are putting them in harms way but firing rockets and mortars from populated areas and then exploiting the civilians as human shields while they are alive and then exploiting them to gullible westerners if they are killed. It's typical of the twisted views of some on here that Hamas's tactics are somehow seen as legitimate.

Nodin · 23-07-2014 11:26PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

The aren't defending a people, they're fighting for their own ideological reasons. Rather than defending the people of Gaza they are putting them in harms way but firing rockets and mortars from populated areas and then exploiting the civilians as human shields while they are alive and then exploiting them to gullible westerners if they are killed. It's typical of the twisted views of some on here that Hamas's tactics are somehow seen as legitimate.

...or that's what's happening, according to Israel.

Israel bombs 160 sites in Gaza overnight. Mod Warnings in First Post.

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