LovinDublin.com/Niall Harbison in a spot of bother

jimgoose · 18-06-2014 03:22PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

You're a snob, only a snob would say what you said

Actually, I'm more of an elitist.

drumswan · 18-06-2014 03:30PM

kylith wrote: »

Plenty of teenagers do not behave like that.

And plenty do. Normal ones for example. Standing around in your way, how dare they.

They have intimidated me by getting in my face when I have asked them politely to move so I can get past, they've yelled in my face and kicked at my dogs.

Another Walter Mitty.

kylith · 18-06-2014 03:37PM

drumswan wrote: »

And plenty do. Normal ones for example. Standing around in your way, how dare they.

They can stand around all they like, it's the attitude when you say 'excuse me' and try to get past them that I have a problem with.

drumswan wrote: »

Another Walter Mitty.

Are you accusing me of making things up? Because I assure you that, for some people, yelling at passers-by seems to be a major source of entertainment.

Uriel. · 18-06-2014 03:46PM

kylith wrote: »

They can stand around all they like, it's the attitude when you say 'excuse me' and try to get past them that I have a problem with.

Are you accusing me of making things up? Because I assure you that, for some people, yelling at passers-by seems to be a major source of entertainment.

Don't waste your energy. There is no crime, there is no anti-social behaviour. There is only your imagination apparently.

VinLieger · 18-06-2014 04:00PM

I dunno whats wrong with complaining about this and coming across as snobby?

So what if i dont wanna have to see lobster red fat wans skulling cider an hour after collecting their dole?

I work hard for my money and dont need to be abused for no reason other than i look like I have a job while on my walk home by these yokels

jimgoose · 18-06-2014 04:03PM

VinLieger wrote: »

I dunno whats wrong with complaining about this and coming across as snobby?

So what if i dont wanna have to see lobster red fat wans skulling cider an hour after collecting their dole?

I work hard for my money and dont need to be abused for no reason other than i look like I have a job while on my walk home by these yokels

You should be more sensitive, unless you're clearly a cnut, like me. :pac::pac::pac:

P_1 · 18-06-2014 04:06PM

A pretentious snob writes a pretentious, snobby article in a blog written for pretentious snobs. Why exactly is this considered news?

TheDoc · 18-06-2014 04:09PM

fits the narrative of the thread here lovely.

Guardai are down at Howth as I type, turning teenagers around back onto trains as they step off. Granted there was some **** last week or the week before, there seems to be a prejudiced "If your a teen coming with your mates to Howth, your a scumbag"

As someone who went to Howth, Portmarnock and Bray as a teen with my mates, never causing trouble, not even drinking, pretty ****ty to see and hear about.

I'm sure the writer from the OP link is banging his "proper order" drum loudly today

VinLieger · 18-06-2014 04:31PM

TheDoc wrote: »

fits the narrative of the thread here lovely.

Guardai are down at Howth as I type, turning teenagers around back onto trains as they step off. Granted there was some **** last week or the week before, there seems to be a prejudiced "If your a teen coming with your mates to Howth, your a scumbag"

As someone who went to Howth, Portmarnock and Bray as a teen with my mates, never causing trouble, not even drinking, pretty ****ty to see and hear about.

I'm sure the writer from the OP link is banging his "proper order" drum loudly today

Well considering last years shenanigans can you blame the guards?

TheDoc · 18-06-2014 04:36PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Well considering last years shenanigans can you blame the guards?

To blanket ban all teenagers from going places?

Yeah, I can sort of see a problem with this thought process. It's starting to spread through facebook now.

Friend shared his cousins status, lives on the hill and just back from town with some of his friends, just got turfed back on the train sent back from where they came. Got off at Sutton to try walk home and Guards there doing the same.

He's back at Howth junction waiting on a lift from his Da.

So yeah, I can somewhat blame a blanket approach to stopping a section of society going to a popular spot on a sunn day.

Appreciate its a tricky situation for the Guards, but blanket banning a certain section of society isn't exactly what I'd call "clever policing".

dj jarvis · 18-06-2014 04:45PM

And in response to the gobsoite Niall Harbison , i give you

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/06/18/sunny-dutch-gold-heaven-comes-to-dublin-but-are-the-pretentious-pricks-ruining-it/

:cool:

Uriel. · 18-06-2014 04:47PM

TheDoc wrote: »

To blanket ban all teenagers from going places?

Yeah, I can sort of see a problem with this thought process. It's starting to spread through facebook now.

Friend shared his cousins status, lives on the hill and just back from town with some of his friends, just got turfed back on the train sent back from where they came. Got off at Sutton to try walk home and Guards there doing the same.

He's back at Howth junction waiting on a lift from his Da.

So yeah, I can somewhat blame a blanket approach to stopping a section of society going to a popular spot on a sunn day.

Appreciate its a tricky situation for the Guards, but blanket banning a certain section of society isn't exactly what I'd call "clever policing".

Perhaps, but you can't blame the Gardai when a Community demands action. And to be perfectly honest, given what went on out there I can sympathise with the local community and businesses.

Until we have effective policies for dealing with anti-social behaviour it comes as no surprise to me that blanket situations develop like you reference - allowing the trouble the start makes for a much more difficult situation to manage. Unfortunately, the majority of innocent teenagers suffer because of the behaviour of (a decent size) minority.

dj jarvis · 18-06-2014 04:49PM

mind you - his "apology" is piss poor - im sorry but......... funk off you twat

http://lovindublin.com/opinion/apology/

P_1 · 18-06-2014 04:52PM

TheDoc wrote: »

fits the narrative of the thread here lovely.

Guardai are down at Howth as I type, turning teenagers around back onto trains as they step off. Granted there was some **** last week or the week before, there seems to be a prejudiced "If your a teen coming with your mates to Howth, your a scumbag"

As someone who went to Howth, Portmarnock and Bray as a teen with my mates, never causing trouble, not even drinking, pretty ****ty to see and hear about.

I'm sure the writer from the OP link is banging his "proper order" drum loudly today

That can turn into a real mess. First you have the problem of people who live in Howth being forced back into town, that could well be turned into some kind of civil case. Second you have the potential of having a trainload of people landing in Connolly with only single tickets to Howth, I'd wager Irish Rail are taking in a few handy penalty fares this evening.

average hero · 18-06-2014 04:54PM

I have to say I do think it's odd how we do everything with drink. It's a lovely day - drink, it's a sh!te day - drink, celebrating - drink, grieving - drink, family function - drink, going abroad - drink, staying at home - drink, happy - drink, sad - drink, angry - drink.

I'm just as bad although trying to wean myself off drink as much as I can, I'm on a fitness buzz.

If anyone saw the Germans carting their couches onto the football pitch in Berlin, what did you think? I thought it was a great idea. That couldn't happen here as that event would have been commandeered by rowdy scumbags (see: festivals and any public events in Dublin particularly).

The sun just means that they are more concentrated in a particular area.

super_furry · 18-06-2014 04:56PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

mind you - his "apology" is piss poor - im sorry but......... funk off you twat

http://lovindublin.com/opinion/apology/

When you think about it, isn't he the real victim here? We should all send him a Lovin Box full of hand produced locally sourced falafels to make up for it.

freddiek · 18-06-2014 10:18PM

inner-city London has managed to get rid of the lion's share of its chav population and these areas are now mostly inhabited by various ethnic groups.

will this happen soon in Dublin do u think??

Aidric · 18-06-2014 11:56PM

There may have been an element of baiting in an attempt to gain traffic to his website but to dismiss his points out of hand would be foolish.

I have lived in a few countries outside of Ireland at this stage and in none of them have I experienced the the type of feral trouble seeking gangs of teens that exist in Irish cities. This is not a generalisation on Irish teens, who for the most part are well behaved and pleasant, but more the subset that come from disadvantaged areas of Irish cities and think nothing of throwing abuse at strangers.

Shakespeare's Sister · 18-06-2014 11:56PM

He published something using the term "knackers" - not classy. But obviously he knew well what he was doing.

The hipster thing, I dunno. I do understand irritation at the blatantly pretentious/ironic stuff. When I lived in Dublin I used to find Urban Outfitters and Gruel (café) a load of twaddle - "Aren't we so quirky by using all this 70s old lady's house tat." But sometimes the anti hipster thing is literally just having a problem with someone's taste. E.g. the anti craft beer bandwagon (yes, it's just as much of a bandwagon as the craft beer bandwagon) - some people genuinely just like craft beers, but it doesn't mean they wouldn't drink Heineken/Carlsberg either.

And the anti foodie thing. Some people just love food that's a bit different to the standard stuff; doesn't mean they don't eat non fancy food. If hipsters were eating fry-ups and other "down to earth" food I get the feeling they'd be dismissed as being ironic.

The_Captain · 19-06-2014 01:42AM

It's not anti-craft beer and anti-foodie sentiments, it's anti-"I think I'm a better person than you because I drink craft beer and eat paleo"

Shakespeare's Sister · 19-06-2014 01:52AM

The_Captain wrote: »

It's not anti-craft beer and anti-foodie sentiments, it's anti-"I think I'm a better person than you because I drink craft beer and eat paleo"

Yeh, that I get, but the lines between that and just assuming people have that superior attitude when they don't (they merely enjoy such beer/food) can be blurred.
I love tapas etc simply because I find it delicious, but I also love e.g. a tasty carvery, which there's unreal snobbery towards - not just from hipster types.

anncoates · 19-06-2014 09:19AM

discus wrote: »

The amount of people bereting Niall Harbison for calling a spade a spade (or a knacker a knacker) reminds me of why I left Dublin, and left Ireland.

Excellent. The plot is working.

anncoates · 19-06-2014 10:08AM

Uriel. wrote: »

You don't think it's anti-social behaviour?

Most of the time, the area is fine. Like, a lot of the time the City is fine.

Nope, mistake. I was agreeing that is anti-social behaviour but the thread seems to have diverged to general rants about same rather than whether the original issue is actual anti-social behaviour on the part of these kids or the offence caused by their mere presence in the area to professionals and other non-residents.

Birneybau · 19-06-2014 12:57PM

discus wrote: »

The amount of people bereting Niall Harbison for calling a spade a spade (or a knacker a knacker) reminds me of why I left Dublin, and left Ireland.

I'd also wear a hat if I had a head like his.

mosi · 19-06-2014 01:58PM

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/my-child-was-infected-with-flesh-eating-bug-in-dublin-canal-claims-mother-30368404.html

anncoates · 19-06-2014 02:28PM

mosi wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/my-child-was-infected-with-flesh-eating-bug-in-dublin-canal-claims-mother-30368404.html

Begs a BowSiE headline, surely?

Muahahaha · 19-06-2014 02:33PM

average hero wrote: »

If anyone saw the Germans carting their couches onto the football pitch in Berlin, what did you think? I thought it was a great idea. That couldn't happen here as that event would have been commandeered by rowdy scumbags (see: festivals and any public events in Dublin particularly).

The sun just means that they are more concentrated in a particular area.

I get your point but for me part of the problem is our police force and the manner in which they police. The Gardai are a reactive police force which is how most police forces operated up until the 1980's when new methods came in and police forces (like the Met) became a lot more proactive and would go searching out crime/potential trouble spots before things got too heated. Whereas the Gardai, time and time again, sit waiting for a phone call after the horse has already bolted and then they show up too late after most of the damage has been done.

Let me contrast how a reactive police force operates compared to a proactive police force.

Key example of reactive Gardai policing-

June 2013, the first sunny day after the secondary schools break up. Thousands of teenagers flock to Portmarnock, drinking can and spirits all day a large scale riot ensues with hundreds fighting on the beach, locals running for cover, etc. Much of it was organised over social media. One year later, exact same circumstances, sunny day in June, schools broken up and social media alive with teenagers making plans to hit Portmarnock, Howth & Malahide to go drinking for the day, with some of them organising fights on Facebook. Are the Gardai there thinking Hmm, sunny day, kids off school, what tends to happen from previous experience ? No they are not, instead there are 200 Gardai on overtime duty policing the upper middle classes at a gardening festival in the Phoenix Park. How many arrests did those 200 Gardai make at the gardening festival ? My guess is a big fat 0, yet they had little or no presence at Malahide, Howth or Portmarnock until after the horse had bolted.

Now let's compare that to how a reactive police force operates. The Met in London suffered almost a week of rioting in London and throughout England back in the summer of 2011. They were completely caught unawares t it and their response was inadequate. But the main problem they faced combatting it is that teenagers were outflanking the police through their use of social media- they were called the Blackberry Riots by some because rioters were using Blackberrys instant messaging system and Twitter to organise large scale mayhem at short notice. The Met twigged onto this and instead of listening to politicians hysterical calls to ban Facebook and Twitter instead they set up a specialist division to monitor social media. Since the 2011 riots the Met has monitored social media for all kinds of large scale events, football marches, concerts, etc, etc so if there is any potential for trouble they can nip it in the bud before it even begins.

If Ireland were policed by the Met then the trouble at Howth on the June Bank holiday would never have gotten as far as it did. The riots in Portmarnock wouldn't have occurred because the police would have been monitoring social media and spotting patterns and deploying highly visible officers (and police horses if necessary) to specific locations where they knew hundreds of drinking teenagers would be congregating. That's the difference between a proactive police force like the Met and and a reactive police force like An Garda Siochana.

It's not that there are no scumbags in the UK, because there are plenty. But they know the cops over there are on the ball so they are less likely to step out of line. Our scumbags here know well that the Gardai are constantly at sixes and sevens (200 Gardai policing a gardening festival anyone?) and they can cause as much trouble as they like and the Gardai will only show up after the horse has bolted, which is always too late and the damage has been done.

That's the difference in policing methods, one method controls the scumbags where the other method lets the scumbags control them. Prevention is always better than cure but despite every European police force changing to reflect this back in the 1980s AGS is still stuck there. It's not the fault of the Gardai on the ground, it's the divisional superintendents who have their heads stuck in the 1980's

Augmerson · 19-06-2014 02:39PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I get your point but for me part of the problem is our police force and the manner in which they police. The Gardai are a reactive police force which is how most police forces operated up until the 1980's when new methods came in and police forces (like the Met) became a lot more proactive and would go searching out crime/potential trouble spots before things got too heated. Whereas the Gardai, time and time again, sit waiting for a phone call after the horse has already bolted and then they show up too late after most of the damage has been done.

Let me contrast how a reactive police force operates compared to a proactive police force.

Key example of reactive Gardai policing-

June 2013, the first sunny day after the secondary schools break up. Thousands of teenagers flock to Portmarnock, drinking can and spirits all day a large scale riot ensues with hundreds fighting on the beach, locals running for cover, etc. Much of it was organised over social media. One year later, exact same circumstances, sunny day in June, schools broken up and social media alive with teenagers making plans to hit Portmarnock, Howth & Malahide to go drinking for the day, with some of them organising fights on Facebook. Are the Gardai there thinking Hmm, sunny day, kids off school, what tends to happen from previous experience ? No they are not, instead there are 200 Gardai on overtime duty policing the upper middle classes at a gardening festival in the Phoenix Park. How many arrests did those 200 Gardai make at the gardening festival ? My guess is a big fat 0, yet they had little or no presence at Malahide, Howth or Portmarnock until after the horse had bolted.

Now let's compare that to how a reactive police force operates. The Met in London suffered almost a week of rioting in London and throughout England back in the summer of 2010. They were completely caught unawares t it and their response was inadequate. But the main problem they faced combatting it is that teenagers were outflanking the police through their use of social media- they were called the Blackberry Riots by some because rioters were using Blackberrys instant messaging system and Twitter to organise large scale mayhem at short notice. The Met twigged onto this and instead of listening to politicians hysterical calls to ban Facebook and Twitter instead they set up a specialist division to monitor social media. Since the 2011 riots the Met has monitored social media for all kinds of large scale events, football marches, concerts, etc, etc so if there is any potential for trouble they can nip it in the bud before it even begins.

If Ireland were policed by the Met then the trouble at Howth on the June Bank holiday would never have gotten as far as it did. The riots in Portmarnock wouldn't have occurred because the police would have been monitoring social media and spotting patterns and deploying highly visible officers (and police horses if necessary) to specific locations where they knew hundreds of drinking teenagers would be congregating. That's the difference between a proactive police force like the Met and and a reactive police force like An Garda Siochana.

It's not that there are no scumbags in the UK, because there are plenty. But they know the cops over there are on the ball so they are less likely to step out of line. Our scumbags here know well that the Gardai are constantly at sixes and sevens (200 Gardai policing a gardening festival anyone?) and they can cause as much trouble as they like and the Gardai will only show up after the horse has bolted, which is always too late and the damage has been done.

That's the difference in policing methods, one methods controls the scumbags where the other method lets the scumbags control them.

The Met probably have more manpower and resources at their disposal than the Republic and Northern Ireland put together and then some.

smellmepower · 19-06-2014 02:50PM

Have you got a link for the 200 Gardai on duty at Bloom?seems like a ridiculously high number for such a low trouble event.You'd expect a fair amount for traffic control etc but not 200.

blackwhite · 19-06-2014 02:51PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I get your point but for me part of the problem is our police force and the manner in which they police. ...............

That's the difference in policing methods, one method controls the scumbags where the other method lets the scumbags control them. Prevention is always better than cure but despite every European police force changing to reflect this back in the 1980s AGS is still stuck there. It's not the fault of the Gardai on the ground, it's the divisional superintendents who have their heads stuck in the 1980's

The Met's proactive approach in this regard is definitely to be lauded (although they are not a force without their own sometimes fairly serious flaws).

However, can you imagine the hand-wringing and outcry in this country if the Gardai tried a similar approach - "They're spying on the facebook, Joe"

LovinDublin.com/Niall Harbison in a spot of bother

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