Way to go Sinn Fein

Reekwind · 24-05-2014 01:29PM

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

FG still the most popular party in Ireland.

And FF the second most popular party. Both of which statements reveal just how badly broken the Irish political system is. Which goes a great deal towards explaining the opprobrium heaped on any party that challenges this status quo.

Frank Lee Midere · 24-05-2014 01:29PM

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Nice way to sugar coat it.

It's a bollocks non story. The Queen probably signed a book of condolences for Stalin, Mao and Kim Il The First guy.

Anybody you're not at war with.

dxhound2005 · 24-05-2014 01:30PM

Next up a FF SF coalition. SF have no trouble lining up with anyone from the FARC to Gadaffi to the DUP. They go wherever the money is. But in the way of coalitions the junior party tends to suffer, maybe even get wiped out ala PD's and Greens. So who is the junior partner or is SF the new FF?

.jacksparrow. · 24-05-2014 01:32PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

It's a bollocks non story. The Queen probably signed a book of condolences for Stalin, Mao and Kim Il The First guy.

Anybody you're not at war with.

Ah hold on, signing a book on condolence for Hitler is a non story?

Right so...

tayto lover · 24-05-2014 01:32PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Next up a FF SF coalition. SF have no trouble lining up with anyone from the FARC to Gadaffi to the DUP. They go wherever the money is. But in the way of coalitions the junior party tends to suffer, maybe even get wiped out ala PD's and Greens. So who is the junior partner or is SF the new FF?

You forgot Labour :pac:

The Backwards Man · 24-05-2014 01:32PM

frimpong wrote: »

I'm sorry but simply don't understand how young people think at all.
Young people are not voting for Sinn Fein based on a romanticised view of the past, they couldn't care less about the past. They care about now. And now, Sinn Fein are seen as a credible alternative by a huge amount of people, as the polls clearly demonstrate.

We'll see.

Amirani · 24-05-2014 01:33PM

frimpong wrote: »

I'm sorry but simply don't understand how young people think at all.
Young people are not voting for Sinn Fein based on a romanticised view of the past, they couldn't care less about the past. They care about now. And now, Sinn Fein are seen as a credible alternative by a huge amount of people, as the polls clearly demonstrate.

What puts you in a position to speak for all young people? I know one or two who would vote for Sinn Fein, but the majority I know won't vote for them largely because of their past and their lack of coherent economic policies.

Now both of our samples are anecdotal, and we may come from different social groups. Still, I don't think either of us is in a position to classify all or most young people as you seem to be doing.

mike65 · 24-05-2014 01:33PM

SF are Irelands UKIP - the noneoftheabove party.

hjkl · 24-05-2014 01:34PM

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

How are they doing well?

Behind FG, FF, and Independents.

Over 50% of this country voted for centre-right politics.

The only place it seems SF have a noticeable majority is online where they have endless amounts of teenage shinnerbots to quote the party line.

FG still the most popular party in Ireland.

Clearly, they are doing well relative to their support historical. They got 10% of the vote in the General Election in 2011(which was then a huge increase on their votes in the previous election) Three years later they are getting 17% or so of the vote nationwide and are getting 20%+ in some areas.

Jester252 · 24-05-2014 01:34PM

Balmed Out wrote: »

FF and the majority of Indepedants are centre left and SF have done well like them or not.

FF left? What are you smoking?

nacho libre · 24-05-2014 01:35PM

Eoin's nightmare scenario, the one he first envisioned six years ago, looks like it might be realised in three or fours years time. His column tomorrow will be fully of joy - he might even throw in an Aristotle reference to make himself feel better:p

dxhound2005 · 24-05-2014 01:35PM

tayto lover wrote: »

You forgot Labour :pac:

Labour's long term level is about 10%. Like a lot of other parties they gained last time out from the FF meltdown. I expect they will not be far of their 10% over the long term future.

The Diabolical Monocle · 24-05-2014 01:36PM

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Nice way to sugar coat it.

What with facts ??

Can't have them getting in the way now can we.

Better yet let's make it that dev took a shyte on an allies cemetery while wearing a ss uniform and signing a book of personal condolences for hitler and promising to continue his good work.
Since you're in the inventive humor/ready to lie through your teeth today why not.

Banjo String · 24-05-2014 01:36PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Next up a FF SF coalition. SF have no trouble lining up with anyone from the FARC to Gadaffi to the DUP. They go wherever the money is. But in the way of coalitions the junior party tends to suffer, maybe even get wiped out ala PD's and Greens. So who is the junior partner or is SF the new FF?

Didn't O'Duffy and the blue shirts' line up' with Franco and Hitler?

Jonny Blaze · 24-05-2014 01:36PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

How did you ever find out about that!

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that top irish officials flirted with the idea of colluding with the nazi's during the war?

They also refused german jewish refugees fleeing the nazi's.

Top bunch of lads they were!

Reekwind · 24-05-2014 01:38PM

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that top irish officials flirted with the idea of colluding with the nazi's during the war?

This would be at the same time that they were giving every assistance possible to the Allies, short of joining the war? Away with your nonsense.

.jacksparrow. · 24-05-2014 01:38PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

What with facts ??

Can't have them getting in the way now can we.

Better yet let's make it that dev took a shyte on an allies cemetery while wearing a ss uniform and signing a book of personal condolences for hitler and promising to continue his good work.
Since you're in the inventive humor/ready to lie through your teeth today why not.

It's there in black and white.

dxhound2005 · 24-05-2014 01:38PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

What with facts ??

Can't have them getting in the way now can we.

Better yet let's make it that dev took a shyte on an allies cemetery while wearing a ss uniform and signing a book of personal condolences for hitler and promising to continue his good work.
Since you're in the inventive humor/ready to lie through your teeth today why not.

Dev was probalby trying to compete with Sinn Fein for the Republican anti British vote. SF would have gained on that front by collaborating with the Nazis during the war.

OldRio · 24-05-2014 01:39PM

Well when FF/FG are finished there will be very few 20 somethings left in the country to vote for SF. All emigrated looking for work.

pablomakaveli · 24-05-2014 01:40PM

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that top irish officials flirted with the idea of colluding with the nazi's during the war?

They also refused german jewish refugees fleeing the nazi's.

Top bunch of lads they were!

We aided the allies a lot more than the Germans. The main support for the Germans here was from Sean Russell and his cohorts.

Frank Lee Midere · 24-05-2014 01:41PM

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Ah hold on, signing a book on condolence for Hitler is a non story?

Right so...

Yeah because that's protocol. As I said the Queen probably followed protocol and signed for Stalin.

Balmed Out · 24-05-2014 01:41PM

I think SF have had the many of the most dedicated and hard working Councillors in the country for quite a while now and do well with parish pump issues.
They will eventually be in a position to take part in a coalition government and they've been so loud opposing any policy that may have figures that actually add up while putting forward dreams they will find it very hard to avoid a large drop in popularity or even an implosion within the ranks.

hjkl · 24-05-2014 01:43PM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

What puts you in a position to speak for all young people? I know one or two who would vote for Sinn Fein, but the majority I know won't vote for them largely because of their past and their lack of coherent economic policies.

Now both of our samples are anecdotal, and we may come from different social groups.Still, I don't think either of us is in a position to classify all or most young people as you seem to be doing.

This is a fair enough point. It wasn't my intention to try to classify all young people.

But I stand by my early point, that people who have grown up after the troubles, or as the troubles were coming to an end, are a lot less likely to be swayed by the past as people who lived through it are.
Sinn Fein have made huge gains in support over the last 4-5 years and it's my view that this trend will continue, or at the very least, their support will stay at current levels. Time will tell I guess.

umop.episdn · 24-05-2014 01:44PM

SF have recently done well in local elections, no reason to think they wouldn't do well in this one.
It's a protest vote, against the mainstream partys, but when it comes to a general election, people back away, it's one thing to let them in charge of tarmacing bothareens, it's another giving them charge of our entire economy.

Frank Lee Midere · 24-05-2014 01:44PM

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that top irish officials flirted with the idea of colluding with the nazi's during the war?

They also refused german jewish refugees fleeing the nazi's.

Top bunch of lads they were!

How did this kind of nonsense move from radical right wing unionist sites and the torygraph at its most anti-Irish phase ( during Good Friday ) to being common knowledge amongst D4 types?

The only vague truth there is the rejection of Jewish immigrants. Which also happened in the UK and US prior to the war.

dxhound2005 · 24-05-2014 01:44PM

Balmed Out wrote: »

I think SF have had the many of the most dedicated and hard working Councillors in the country for quite a while now and do well with parish pump issues.
They will eventually be in a position to take part in a coalition government and they've been so loud opposing any policy that may have figures that actually add up while putting forward dreams they will find it very hard to avoid a large drop in popularity or even an implosion within the ranks.

We don't even have to wait for that the see how they are a failure in Government. If you judge failure by a health service which is in chaos and swingeing property tax on ordinary people. With laws allowing them to repossess your house, make you bankrupt and put you in jail if you don't pay up. Just look North.

mike65 · 24-05-2014 01:44PM

Balmed Out wrote: »

I think SF have had the many of the most dedicated and hard working Councillors in the country for quite a while now and do well with parish pump issues.
They will eventually be in a position to take part in a coalition government and they've been so loud opposing any policy that may have figures that actually add up while putting forward dreams they will find it very hard to avoid a large drop in popularity or even an implosion within the ranks.

QFT, when the party of protest becomes a party of power it becomes the party to protest. happens every time.

Jonny Blaze · 24-05-2014 01:45PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Yeah because that's protocol. As I said the Queen probably followed protocol and signed for Stalin.

Protocol that basically every other decent human being in office ignored..

Indeed, no other Western European democracies followed De Valera's example – he found himself in the dubious company of two European fascist dictators, Francisco Franco of Spain and António de Oliveira Salazar of Portugal, in voicing condolences over Hitler.

And if he was such an observer of protocol..

Interestingly, De Valera did not extend the same courtesy to Churchill as he did with Hitler when the British statesman died in January 1965.

It's well known that Ireland provided asisstance to the allies during the war.

It's less well know that they also entertained the notion of siding with the nazi's early on before it became obvious they were going to lose.

Hedging their bets really.

suicide_circus · 24-05-2014 01:45PM

I don't not vote SF because of the past.

I don't vote SF because of the future.

Conchir · 24-05-2014 01:46PM

frimpong wrote: »

As I have said, young people in this country by and large do not have the same hang ups about Sinn Fein people like yourself have. They have only ever known Sinn Fein as another political party.
While the situation the country has been in over the last 6 years has helped, I don't think it is a coincidence that Sinn Feins support has seen a dramatic increase as people who were only children as the troubles were coming to an end have become old enough to vote.

Anyway time will tell.

I voted for the first time yesterday. So did many of my friends in school. I didn't nor ever will vote for Sinn Fein, the same as most of the other people I know my age. Where do you get your info?

Way to go Sinn Fein

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