Season 4 Episode 7 "Mockingbird": HAVE NOT read the books

Mickeroo · 20-05-2014 02:41PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So Daenarys is gaining power from allowing Daario to shag her? The original premise was that allowing him to shag her was an expression of her power. Why would Daenarys need to gain any more power over him? He's already demonstrated he'll gladly die for her if commanded.

I think she had sex with him because she gave in to her own desires but she was careful she did it in a way that made it clear she's still the one in control. She's not gaining anything she didn't already have just getting what she wants, while giving him what he wants but doing it in a way that keeps him in his place.

2ndcoming · 20-05-2014 03:16PM

It seems now on this thread we've got everyone afraid to discuss the major plot points and guess outcomes for fear of being right and being accused of having read the books, meaning the only discussion going on is pedantic nit-picking of minute details by a handful of posters.

I haven't read the books but I did guess in last week's thread that the Mountain would be Tywin's champion and Oberyn would then stand for Tyrion. Turns out Tywin doesn't seem to have anything to do with it but wasn't too far off, but if anyone analysed how the trial story had been building up these were the most logical choices.

If this was any other show like say Breaking Bad that wasn't adapted from a book series the discussion would be full of speculation on major plot points, ie Breaking Bad

Hank's death

... all week before that episode will it / won't it happen was discussed on Boards but no-one could turn around and say "oh that was spoiled on me because someone guessed it on Boards", because nobody had seen it yet. With GOT sadly you'll always have a bit of paranoia that someone is gonna be out to spoil it for everyone. I think we just have to have faith in the mods (who, I take it, have read the books) that any deliberate spoilage will get dealt with and try and get on with the discussion.

Lemlin · 20-05-2014 03:54PM

Degag wrote: »

Looking at it purely from a casting point of view, I might favour Oberyn. They've recast The Mountain 3 times and have now cast a Norwegian strongman with little or no acting experience (forgive me if this is inaccurate, I don't want to google it incase I run into spoilers) and in his scene with Cersei, he didn't do much to discredit this. If he was staying around a bit longer - they may have cast an actor?

I'd have to agree with this. It was fairly clear in last night's episode that The Mountain can't act. Even the one line he delivered was terrible. Surely this "actor" was cast with an imminent death in mind.

It's actually very annoying because IMO it has ruined the plot. That said, I'd prefer to see alot more of Oberyn. He and Dinklage have been superb this season.

Degag · 20-05-2014 06:23PM

I really think that anyone reading the books should not be posting in these threads regardless if they are being open about it and not posting spoilers. There's a thread there for you.

I've seen some suspicious posts on here and I've looked to see if the poster had ever posted in the "have read the books" threads before - to be fair, I haven't found any but then again, I'm sure most aren't that silly. If I did I'd be pming the mods straight away.

DM addict · 20-05-2014 06:47PM

Degag wrote: »

I really think that anyone reading the books should not be posting in these threads regardless if they are being open about it and not posting spoilers. There's a thread there for you.

I've seen some suspicious posts on here and I've looked to see if the poster had ever posted in the "have read the books" threads before - to be fair, I haven't found any but then again, I'm sure most aren't that silly. If I did I'd be pming the mods straight away.

Book reader here, for full disclosure.

I read these threads because I'm interested to see where people think the plot is going from a fresh perspective. One of the best things about reading the books the first time around was how "obvious" plots or story arcs were aborted, or inverted, or just plain screwed over. As a book reader, I love watching the show, anticipating what's coming up and wondering how that's going to pan out. But I also miss the freshness of the WTF?!?! moments that happen along the way.

I think it's unfair if book readers post her and intentionally spoil things, and possibly theories should be spoiler tagged just in case. But I enjoy the debates on what's going to happen - albeit, from the sidelines.

ceadaoin. · 20-05-2014 06:48PM

Degag wrote: »

Here's another theory I just thought of. Oberyn gets killed but he wounds The Mountain in the battle. Apparently he likes to put poison on his sword?

So The Mountain also dies and Tyrion is found innocent.

kryogen wrote: »

He likes to put poison on his sword?

Dunno what would happen in that situation then, both champions dead, a mis trial maybe

Degag wrote: »

Think someone said it in last weeks thread.

Why do you think they'll both die? That's a very specific prediction! Has the poison thing been mentioned in the series? I don't recall anything about it.

J. Marston · 20-05-2014 06:57PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Why do you think they'll both die? That's a very specific prediction! Has the poison thing been mentioned in the series? I don't recall anything about it.

Neither can I. I've read about the poison thing on here and how he's supposed to be an amazing fighter but I can't recall either being discussed in the show.

If they have, I must not have been paying attention.

Witcher · 20-05-2014 07:06PM

J. Marston wrote: »

[/B]
Neither can I. I've read about the poison thing on here and how he's supposed to be an amazing fighter but I can't recall either being discussed in the show.

If they have, I must not have been paying attention.

Both have been mentioned on the show.

kryogen · 20-05-2014 07:08PM

Deffo don't remember a mention of the poison on the sword int he show, but it was mentioned in on here, last weeks thread maybe?

I think its unlikely both will die though so will stick with my original idea that we will be seeing considerably less of Oberyn after the next episode as the Mountain continues his path of destruction, you would assume that he is being aimed at a big showdown with his brother like?

kryogen · 20-05-2014 07:10PM

Blay wrote: »

Both have been mentioned on the show.

When was the poison thing mentioned? Genuinely no idea when that was, think he was reputed to be a great fighter in the episode himself and the missus came to Kings Landing, when Tyrion was looking for him?

Degag · 20-05-2014 07:11PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Why do you think they'll both die? That's a very specific prediction! Has the poison thing been mentioned in the series? I don't recall anything about it.

Don't really know if it was mentioned on the show (although Blay has said that it was)

Someone mentioned it in last weeks thread.

Witcher · 20-05-2014 07:12PM

kryogen wrote: »

When was the poison thing mentioned? Genuinely no idea when that was, think he was reputed to be a great fighter in the episode himself and the missus came to Kings Landing, when Tyrion was looking for him?

When Tywin meets him he describes Oberyn as a 'well known poisoner'. I don't remember it being stated that it's used on hos sword however.

Cersei says he's a great fighter when she talks to him.

Penn · 20-05-2014 07:17PM

kryogen wrote: »

Deffo don't remember a mention of the poison on the sword int he show, but it was mentioned in on here, last weeks thread maybe?

I think its unlikely both will die though so will stick with my original idea that we will be seeing considerably less of Oberyn after the next episode as the Mountain continues his path of destruction, you would assume that he is being aimed at a big showdown with his brother like?

In fairness, we thought Robb was being aimed at a big showdown with Tywin, and Renly versus Stannis. I'm not sure I trust anyone not to be killed off at a moment's notice bar Bran (too important to the White Walker story) and Danerys (too important to the dragon story).

Would love a showdown between The Mountain and The Hound though. Their short fight in Season 1 was brilliant. But on the other hand, I really like Oberyn's character and he seems like the most credible threat to Tywin which could be great.

Degag · 20-05-2014 07:22PM

My other theory is that if The Mountain was to die, Sandor would become head of House Clegane, which might possibly get him out of his current predicament.

kryogen · 20-05-2014 07:27PM

Penn wrote: »

In fairness, we thought Robb was being aimed at a big showdown with Tywin, and Renly versus Stannis. I'm not sure I trust anyone not to be killed off at a moment's notice bar Bran (too important to the White Walker story) and Danerys (too important to the dragon story).

Would love a showdown between The Mountain and The Hound though. Their short fight in Season 1 was brilliant. But on the other hand, I really like Oberyn's character and he seems like the most credible threat to Tywin which could be great.

True enough, I suppose I just think that the most obvious outcome would be for Oberyn to save the day and for Tyrion to go free, or rather, that would be the happier option. So I think that one is **** out of luck going on the history of the show

ceadaoin. · 20-05-2014 07:36PM

Blay wrote: »

When Tywin meets him he describes Oberyn as a 'well known poisoner'. I don't remember it being stated that it's used on hos sword however.

Cersei says he's a great fighter when she talks to him.

So no one can recall it actually being said that he uses poison on his weapons? Hmm...

Penn · 20-05-2014 07:40PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So no one can recall it actually being said that he uses poison on his weapons? Hmm...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1o25dNp-Ds

Tywin says Oberyn "studied" poisons and is an expert in poisons. No mention of using them on his weapons, unless it was in a different conversation.

Anachrony · 20-05-2014 08:01PM

2ndcoming wrote: »

It seems now on this thread we've got everyone afraid to discuss the major plot points and guess outcomes for fear of being right and being accused of having read the books

There's also the fact that the show consistently subverts expectations. You can speculate on where things seem to be leading, but never be sure whether they seem to point that way because that's what will happen or if this is one of the times where they're taking an unexpected turn. Brainstorming possibilities is fun, but when it comes to betting on a specific outcome it's easier to just wait and see what actually happens and then talk about it then.

I don't see why talking about future events is superior to waiting a week and talking about things that have just happened. The nit-picking, misunderstandings, and debate about things that have actually been on the screen prove there is a lot to comprehend and plenty of room for interpreting these events, character motivations, etc.

thefa · 20-05-2014 09:16PM

Anachrony wrote: »

There's also the fact that the show consistently subverts expectations. You can speculate on where things seem to be leading, but never be sure whether they seem to point that way because that's what will happen or if this is one of the times where they're taking an unexpected turn. Brainstorming possibilities is fun, but when it comes to betting on a specific outcome it's easier to just wait and see what actually happens and then talk about it then.

I don't see why talking about future events is superior to waiting a week and talking about things that have just happened. The nit-picking, misunderstandings, and debate about things that have actually been on the screen prove there is a lot to comprehend and plenty of room for interpreting these events, character motivations, etc.

Predicting future events is more difficult than analysing known occurrences in many cases hence why some would see it as superior. Depends on the type of individual.

iamanengine · 20-05-2014 10:52PM

Any chance of naming and shaming book readers known to have posted spoilers as guesses? That way it deters them from posting or at least people can avoid there comments. It just sucks cos I love reading this thread after each episode but I'm afraid to now.

Anyways, in regards to that episode, so much to talk about...is it just be or has Melisandre gotten hotter? :pac:

garv123 · 20-05-2014 10:55PM

next weeks episode has

The Viper

in the title..
Sounds like it will have something to do with the episode..
the only place ive heard the viper mentioned was on last weeks thread.. not in the show..

iamanengine · 20-05-2014 10:58PM

garv123 wrote: »

next weeks episode has
The Viper
in the title..
Sounds like it will have something to do with the episode..
the only place ive heard the viper mentioned was on last weeks thread.. not in the show..

I'll spoiler it just in case but pretty obvious imo.

Oberyn is known for his knowledge of poison as Tywin explains, he is set to fight the Mountain, so I imagine it relates to him fighting the Mountain, possibly poison is involved in some way?

mooseknunkle · 20-05-2014 11:21PM

Where did Brandon's younger brother go with the wildling have they been in this season ?

garv123 · 20-05-2014 11:25PM

iamanengine wrote: »

I'll spoiler it just in case but pretty obvious imo.
Oberyn is known for his knowledge of poison as Tywin explains, he is set to fight the Mountain, so I imagine it relates to him fighting the Mountain, possibly poison is involved in some way?

Yup thats what i figured when i read the title..

But thats the first time ive seen it anywhere from the series..but someone on here mentioned it.. hmmm

Anachrony · 20-05-2014 11:29PM

mooseknunkle wrote: »

Where did Brandon's younger brother go with the wildling have they been in this season ?

They have not been in this season, and when they split up they did not specify where they were going, other than not North.

castletownman · 20-05-2014 11:35PM

iamanengine wrote: »

Any chance of naming and shaming book readers known to have posted spoilers as guesses? That way it deters them from posting or at least people can avoid there comments. It just sucks cos I love reading this thread after each episode but I'm afraid to now.

Anyways, in regards to that episode, so much to talk about...is it just be or has Melisandre gotten hotter? :pac:

Yep. I think it was an obligatory nude scene featuring her to compensate for the lack of Daenerys flesh. Because I don't see any other reason why she needed to be bathing in that scene with Stannis' wife.

But listen. I ain't complaining

Paddy Cow · 20-05-2014 11:37PM

iamanengine wrote: »

Any chance of naming and shaming book readers known to have posted spoilers as guesses? That way it deters them from posting or at least people can avoid there comments. It just sucks cos I love reading this thread after each episode but I'm afraid to now.

I am a book reader and the odd time I will post in the non book readers thread but it is always to do with things that have happened in the show and I would never post spoilers as "guesses".

I think it is a good thing that book readers post in these threads. Book readers take a dim view of other book readers who spoil things and are quick to call them out. Who better to spot people who are too close to the mark than people who know what is going to happen? A few weeks ago there was an incident where a non book reader used a name that only a book reader would know and he was called out on it. Turns out it was an innocent mistake as he had only read the first book or two but it shows that book readers are on the ball.

The vast majority of threads on this forum have spoilers in them so the book readers are familiar with other book readers usernames. I guarantee you that if any of us saw a know book reader posting spoilers, we would be reporting them to the mods.

I think that the only way a book reader (or someone who looks things up on the internet) would get away with posting spoilers, is if they had an account that they used only to post in non book reader threads. This would mean that they have a low post count, so if you suspect someone, look at their post count. The other scenario is that they have two accounts but the mods/admin are usually on posters like that pretty quickly.

For what it's worth, while some of the predictions from non book readers are spot on the money, it doesn't necessarily mean they are deliberately spoilering. They could be just guessing. When I read the books, a lot of important stuff went over my head. For example, I somehow missed that it was Littlefinger who got Lysa to poison Jon Arryn

There are other fairly obvious things that I missed that I won't say here as they would be spoilers but my point is, for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, so it stands to reason (to me at least) that if some book readers missed a lot of things, there would be a few non book readers who are perceptive enough to pick up on things in the show?

ceadaoin. · 20-05-2014 11:39PM

Anachrony wrote: »

They have not been in this season, and when they split up they did not specify where they were going, other than not North.

I thought Osha was taking them to a family that was loyal to the Starks? I don't remember the name of the family though

Paddy Cow · 20-05-2014 11:43PM

Anachrony wrote: »

They have not been in this season, and when they split up they did not specify where they were going, other than not North.

Bran sent Rickon to the Umbers. They are bannermen of the Starks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVlRkEqI2T0

Da Shins Kelly · 21-05-2014 02:04AM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

There are other fairly obvious things that I missed that I won't say here as they would be spoilers but my point is, for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, so it stands to reason (to me at least) that if some book readers missed a lot of things, there would be a few non book readers who are perceptive enough to pick up on things in the show?

There's a real paranoia out there about spoilers. I never type Game of Thrones into the Google search engine, and I'd never go near any Reddit threads about it. It seems like there are a lot of people out there desperate to spoil it.

That said, I think a lot of hints are dropped throughout the show about what's going to happen, or what could potentially happen, so I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that people are just making educated guesses and prediction based on what's happened in the show so far. I've been re-watching old episodes with a housemate who has just gotten into it, and you end up noticing a lot more second time round. It's hard to keep on top of everything that happens in a single episode at first because there is so much going on, but when you watch it back, you notice little things.

Season 4 Episode 7 "Mockingbird": *HAVE NOT* read the books

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Season 4 Episode 7 "Mockingbird": HAVE NOT read the books