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Season 4 Episode 7 "Mockingbird": *HAVE NOT* read the books

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  • #122
    Mr. CooL ICE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,813 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    IrishAlice wrote: »
    I've been watching GoT since the start and I still need the little reminders of the characters, there's just so many to keep up with.

    Plus I won't google anything in case I stumble upon any spoilers :D

    I understand where you are coming from, but this is a great site. It only updates after an episode has been aired and contains no book spoilers. I wish I had found it earlier.


  • #123
    IrishAlice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭IrishAlice


    LordChessington wrote: »
    I understand where you are coming from, but this is a great site. It only updates after an episode has been aired and contains no book spoilers. I wish I had found it earlier.

    Thanks! Finally somewhere I can safely browse. Ever since a workmate blabbed all about the red wedding and who died I've been extra cautious.


  • #124
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Those who haven't read the books beware - there are book readers here posing as your own kind.

    Fúcking pathetic is what that is.


  • #125
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Hippo wrote: »
    Big improvement on the last couple of episodes, though Daario is rapidly becoming the most irritating character. Mind you, that actor was irritating in Treme too...
    Big improvement on that last episode with the trial scene? :eek: I find some of the King's Landing intrigue business boring, but for me the trial was the best of this whole season (yes, even better than Joff buying the farm).


  • #126
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    STOP READING NOW.



    Just had a load of stuff clearly spoilered. Very frustrating, really very frustrating.


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  • #127
    golfball37
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭golfball37


    Brendan Filone wrote: »
    The way Jorah puffed his chest and smirked his face like he did something special when she sent him off with his consolation prize was hilarious.

    Highlight of the whole series for me. Jorah is surviving on crumbs these days the poor soul. The actor is doing a great job though


  • #128
    calex71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,126 ✭✭✭✭calex71


    stankratz wrote: »
    Those who haven't read the books beware - there are book readers here posing as your own kind.

    Fúcking pathetic is what that is.

    If you have issues with posts report them, what you are doing in that post is worse imo than anything that may or may not be a spoiler as you are giving credibility to those posts. I am aware of several posts here that may or may not be spoilers and may not be simply "guesses" but most non readers seeing them would just see them for guesses.

    By the time I saw the posts I took the decision to leave them for the exact reason I outlined above , that calling attention to them may end up spoiling things for more people.


  • #129
    Hippo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭Hippo


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Big improvement on that last episode with the trial scene?

    There was a great conclusion to the trial alright, but I felt much of the other material got us nowhere. There has been a definite 'treading water' feel to recent episodes, and the Theon rescue attempt, for instance was underwhelming in the extreme.


  • #130
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I've no idea what that means. If the decision wasn't hers then Daario would have to rape her to get what he wanted anyway.
    You have no idea what it means for a man not to be in control? Or don't understand that a man can fancy a woman and not rape her? I'm confused.

    Daario could have desired after Dany for the rest of his life, but that is all that it was, desire from afar. He made it plain that he was interested, but the decision was hers. Jorah has his intentions written all over his face too, has she slept with him?

    The decision to have sex was Dany's and Dany's alone.
    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    How is it a display of power to order people to do what they already wanted to do, and was plain as day to everybody including Daenarys that he wanted to? If Tywin orders Tyrion to get drunk in a brothel, does that mean he has finally got Tryion under his thumb?
    You do understand that a woman deciding to sleep with a man is very different than a man sleeping with prostitutes?


  • #131
    celica00
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 880 ✭✭✭celica00


    stankratz wrote: »
    Those who haven't read the books beware - there are book readers here posing as your own kind.

    Fúcking pathetic is what that is.

    some book readers actually enjoy reading and maybe posting here (without spoiling).
    take it as a compliment, as the "read book" thread isnt as good haha


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  • #132
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    K_user wrote: »
    You do understand that a woman deciding to sleep with a man is very different than a man sleeping with prostitutes?
    In this context no, I don't.
    Daenarys is the queen. She can have Daario's head if she felt like it. That's power. Asking a man to do what he wants to do anyway is not power. Just because she decided she wanted to have Daario herself doesn't mean she had any power over him just because he was up for it.
    In fact, Tyrion displays more power in shagging a prostitute, as the prostitute probably doesn't really want to at all.


  • #133
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I wouldn't be having a conversation with her neither. Chop. Why wait? Any vicious criminal from King's Landing would surely have come across kids well able to kill before, not to mention wouldn't have any qualms about doing them in either.
    Could you please point out where the "vicious criminal" was in that scene?
    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I'm not even sure why The Hound let Arya near Rorge for a duel or whatever. What the hell was he thinking letting them have that stand off? She dies and he loses the last bargaining chip he has.
    What makes you think that the hound didn't have that situation under control?

    He could have cut that man down in a heart beat. Instead he allowed Arya the chance. Perhaps it was a test. To see if she had it in her. He has watched her train. A man of his level would understand her capabilities. He has shown empathy over her desire for revenge. Practicing against a dolt is as good a place to start as any.

    He pointed out himself that he has now got a massive target on his back. That the land between Arya and his cash is filled with Lannisters. Her value to him, and his plan for easy money, is fading fast.


  • #134
    celica00
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 880 ✭✭✭celica00


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    In this context no, I don't.
    Daenarys is the queen. She can have Daario's head if she felt like it. That's power. Asking a man to do what he wants to do anyway is not power. Just because she decided she wanted to have Daario herself doesn't mean she had any power over him just because he was up for it.
    In fact, Tyrion displays more power in shagging a prostitute, as the prostitute probably doesn't really want to at all.

    I would say she still has power because if he was not up for it, she still could have forced him to it (just like getting his head if she wanted to).
    So it was somehow power (and luck as he wanted to anyway)


  • #135
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    K_user wrote: »
    Could you please point out where the "vicious criminal" was in that scene?
    Er, that's precisely my point actually. Where was the vicious criminal that had to be caged for the journey to The Wall because he was so dangerous? That had no problem slaughtering whole villages?
    K_user wrote: »
    What makes you think that the hound didn't have that situation under control?
    He was yards behind her and didn't even get his sword out IIRC. He's good, but he can't teleport unless he's gained some superpowers we haven't been told about...


  • #136
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    In this context no, I don't.
    Daenarys is the queen. She can have Daario's head if she felt like it. That's power. Asking a man to do what he wants to do anyway is not power. Just because she decided she wanted to have Daario herself doesn't mean she had any power over him just because he was up for it.
    Well done. You said it yourself. Dany is the queen. The queen decided that they were going to have sex. Not Daario. His desires were secondary to hers.

    Daenarys has asked men to die for her. She has had people executed. She has plans to crush all resistance around her before starting a war in another continent. All that required loyalty and money. None of it requires her to sleep with every man under her command.
    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    In fact, Tyrion displays more power in shagging a prostitute, as the prostitute probably doesn't really want to at all.
    You do understand that you are saying that a man shows more power paying for sex than a woman deciding who she sleeps with of her own free will?


  • #137
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    celica00 wrote: »
    I would say she still has power because if he was not up for it, she still could have forced him to it (just like getting his head if she wanted to).
    So it was somehow power (and luck as he wanted to anyway)
    It was a show of power because it would have been a show of power if something completely different to what was on the screen had happened?
    Um?


  • #138
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    K_user wrote: »
    You do understand that you are saying that a man shows more power paying for sex than a woman deciding who she sleeps with of her own free will?
    Both Dany and Tyrion want to have sex. It is power if the other person doesn't want it.


  • #139
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Er, that's precisely my point actually. Where was the vicious criminal that had to be caged for the journey to The Wall because he was so dangerous? That had no problem slaughtering whole villages?
    Tywin dryly asked what it would take for an ordinary soldier to take on the hound. The reward was set at ten times the original amount. That is how much the man is feared/respected.

    So who was the most dangerous in that scene?
    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    He was yards behind her and didn't even get his sword out IIRC. He's good, but he can't teleport unless he's gained some superpowers we haven't been told about...
    I think it has been clearly pointed out that fighting is the one thing that the hound knows all about. He was comfortable with the situation. And, as it turns out, he was right.


  • #140
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,773 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Both Dany and Tyrion want to have sex. It is power if the other person doesn't want it.

    Power in a relationship and forcing someone to do something they don't want through violence or coercion are not the same thing.


  • #141
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Both Dany and Tyrion want to have sex. It is power if the other person doesn't want it.
    No thats call rape.

    This was a woman deciding that she wanted to have sex and initiating it.


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  • #142
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Power in a relationship and forcing someone to do something they don't want through violence or coercion are not the same thing.
    Dany had Daario declare his ever lasting loyalty, until his death, before she took the next step. The relationships dynamic is fairly obvious there.


  • #143
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,773 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    K_user wrote: »
    Dany had Daario declare his ever lasting loyalty, until his death, before she took the next step. The relationships dynamic is fairly obvious there.

    She's clearly attracted to him but is completely in control as far as I can see. I'm sure he's not complaining but he seems pretty under the thumb at the moment. Just because you give a dog a treat doesn't mean you're not its master.


  • #144
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,043 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    K_user wrote: »
    No thats call rape.

    This was a woman deciding that she wanted to have sex and initiating it.

    And what does everyone know rape is all about?


  • #145
    Eoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    Kind of cool: The "Dying Merchant" Scene In Game Of Thrones Was Straight From Beckett


  • #146
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Just because you give a dog a treat doesn't mean you're not its master.
    Not the same thing. You don't get anything that you want by giving a dog a treat.
    So any time anybody allows another person to do something they wanted to do anyway, that is power? The power is in not letting them, or making them when they don't want to.


  • #147
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    +1 on this.
    As is the GoT trope now, it's "look how evil this guy is in case you forgot."
    He made poor Sandor cry, the big meanie!.
    You may have missed the actual point of that scene.


  • #148
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    K_user wrote: »
    No thats call rape.
    You do realise that prostitutes may not really want to have sex with their Johns but often have no power over whether do they do or not?


  • #149
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,773 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Not the same thing. You don't get anything that you want by giving a dog a treat.
    So any time anybody allows another person to do something they wanted to do anyway, that is power? The power is in not letting them, or making them when they don't want to.

    You get obedience and loyalty from a dog by giving them treats. I'm not saying there isn't a mutual thing between Dany and Daario, clearly there is, but she is the one in control, everything they do is on her terms. It's a bit naive (and a little strange) to suggest power can't exist within a relationship unless it's not consensual from both sides to be honest.


  • #150
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    K_user wrote: »
    I think it has been clearly pointed out that fighting is the one thing that the hound knows all about. He was comfortable with the situation. And, as it turns out, he was right.
    Well you see that's the difference between you and me I guess. You say it turned out like X, therefore it all made sense because that's what happened.
    I say it turned out like X but it couldn't really have given the situation.
    It happened because that's what happened...:)


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  • #151
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    You get obedience and loyalty from a dog by giving them treats. I'm not saying there isn't a mutual thing between Dany and Daario, clearly there is, but she is the one in control, everything they do is on her terms. It's a bit naive (and a little strange) to suggest power can't exist within a relationship unless it's not consensual from both sides to be honest.
    So Daenarys is gaining power from allowing Daario to shag her? The original premise was that allowing him to shag her was an expression of her power. Why would Daenarys need to gain any more power over him? He's already demonstrated he'll gladly die for her if commanded.


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