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Season 4 Episode 7 "Mockingbird": *HAVE NOT* read the books

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  • #92
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Anachrony wrote: »
    They do if their job is illegal and they are bad enough at it to be caught by incompetent law enforcement. They were petty criminals, and not great at it. They survived in the chaos since by killing the weak, not people like the Hound.
    Apparently not even people like Arya. Even that auld lad, how did they beat him with those bite-and-freeze tactics? :-)
    Anachrony wrote: »
    I'm not sure how being a mentally ill mute precludes someone from creeping up behind a distracted knight. Creeping up and killing civilians would be entirely within his wheelhouse, while successfully killing armored knights would not be. The Hound is very good at killing people with swords in open combat, but it doesn't follow that he is omniscient.
    Then I don't see how it precluded him from hitting Sandor with a sword, hell even a stick. You put all that effort into creeping up and then try to eat your opponent to death?
    Anachrony wrote: »
    Who needs a rocket launcher? I figure if we just gave you a crossbow, you could win the whole war, isn't that right?
    Which neatly sidesteps the fact that some people will excuse anything and everything in a TV show they are fans of. It reminds me a lot of the Whovians, and their desperation to explain away any ridiculous impossibility or internal contradiction with the most outlandish theories. It's some sort of total immersion thing, they just can't believe it's a TV show and some bits are just poorly written.


  • #93
    Pepe LeFrits
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    I knew Dan solo reminded me of someone.

    frabz-FALSE-Only-the-bodies-of-your-enemies-upstream-would-pass-you-Th-d3a789.jpg


  • #94
    Anachrony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 286 ✭✭Anachrony


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Apparently not even people like Arya. Even that auld lad, how did they beat him with those bite-and-freeze tactics? :-)

    You did notice that the bite guy was dead at that point, so they were already out of their tactical comfort zone by the time Arya dispatched him? They went from two on one against the old guy to two against one the other way, and the one who killed him was the one he didn't realize was a threat.
    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Then I don't see how it precluded him from hitting Sandor with a sword, hell even a stick.

    The fact that he was established two seasons ago as someone who has teeth filed down to points for some reason? Who does that? Not rational people who hit people with sticks.
    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Which neatly sidesteps the fact that some people will excuse anything and everything in a TV show they are fans of.

    Actually it highlights how poor your understanding of tactics are and that you have a pretty extensive record of being wrong about everything.


  • #95
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    K_user wrote: »
    I really liked Dany's scene.

    For the first time she "used" a man, rather than being used. This is a complete role reversal from where she started. She is now the boss. She is now in control. Not only of herself, but of what others will do for her.
    I don't get it. Wasn't this obvious from the day Daario killed all his own mates because he fancied Dany so much? Was there any doubt he'd do the horizontal boogie with her if "ordered" to do so? Wouldn't anybody? :)


  • #96
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Pepe LeFrits wrote: »
    I knew Dan solo reminded me of someone.

    frabz-FALSE-Only-the-bodies-of-your-enemies-upstream-would-pass-you-Th-d3a789.jpg
    Well the first line might remind you of me, but the second line (the bizarre explanation) is some other people here surely!


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  • #97
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Anachrony wrote: »
    You did notice that the bite guy was dead at that point, so they were already out of their tactical comfort zone by the time Arya dispatched him? They went from two on one against the old guy to two against one the other way, and the one who killed him was the one he didn't realize was a threat.
    So if a kid, a mate of one of the most dangerous men in Westeros, came up to you waving a sword you'd just ignore them? OK... It just makes no sense to me that he was cool enough to carry on a conversation with Sandro and Arya and then paralysed with fear enough to not defend himself at all. He'd obviously killed plenty of people before, why not just add Arya to the list?
    Anachrony wrote: »
    The fact that he was established two seasons ago as someone who has teeth filed down to points for some reason? Who does that? Not rational people who hit people with sticks.
    Well filing down your teeth because you like biting people makes some sort of sense in itself... like The Hound said though, you win fights with swords and armour. Diving at people biting sounds like a career shortening tactic to me!
    Anachrony wrote: »
    Actually it highlights how poor your understanding of tactics are and that you have a pretty extensive record of being wrong about everything.
    No, I think you'll find that it's you that hasn't a clue about anything at all in the universe.
    I can think of a million tactics that are better than "stand back and let the crazy guy bite the most dangerous man in Westeros, then stand paralysed while I get stabbed." Real Tywin Lannister strategic genius stuff there! LOL.


  • #98
    Anachrony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 286 ✭✭Anachrony


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I can think of a million tactics that are better than "stand back and let the crazy guy bite the most dangerous man in Westeros, then stand paralysed while I get stabbed."

    No doubt most of those plans involve crossbows. Too bad it was just some idiot criminal standing there and not you.


  • #99
    Pepe LeFrits
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Well the first line might remind you of me, but the second line (the bizarre explanation) is some other people here surely!
    I couldn't find any with his weaponry related quotes :(


  • #100
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Anachrony wrote: »
    No doubt most of those plans involve crossbows. Too bad it was just some idiot criminal standing there and not you.
    I would've thought a murderous criminal would be more likely to defend himself than a non-murderous criminal, but what do I know, eh? If you can last a few years in war torn Westeros biting people and wetting your pants then I guess it's not all that tough a place...


  • #101
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Pepe LeFrits wrote: »
    I couldn't find any with his weaponry related quotes :(
    But you found one with an explanation as preposterous as "he likes biting people" and "sometimes thugs just have a little chat and let themselves be stabbed"!

    Come to think of it, didn't Bitey and Useless first show up in a cage because they were supposedly too dangerous to allow them to just travel as normal like most prisoners who had opted for the The Wall?


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  • #102
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    She stabs one guy in the chest. Then she stabs Polliver in the back and while he's on the floor she stabs him through the throat.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQQU4RzH-mI
    She hit a guy in the head, and while he was struggling with consciousness, she impaled him. Polliver was hit from behind, and she stabbed him in the throat while he was helpless.

    Both were attacks from a position of power. Both were kills from where she was in control and was able to take her time. Had she not slashed Polliver first, by surprise, there would have been a very different out come. One that didn't involve a long revenge speech.

    In this episode she faced a guy, who already had a drawn sword. There was no sneak attack. No hitting on the head from behind, distracting coin toss, or surprise slash on his back.

    She was face to face with a soldier, granted just a grunt, and she pulled a sword and killed him.

    This was the first time that Arya openly faced a man. Granted he probably wasn't expecting it. But it was still the first time that she killed someone who was looking right at her, who had the capability to fight back and who was armed.


  • #103
    IrishAlice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭IrishAlice


    Really enjoyed last night's episode, it's setting things up well for the final 3 I think.

    Oberyn is fast becoming one of my favorite characters, really hope he doesn't die!

    Littlefinger is really starting to show just how dangerous he is. What a scene!! God I'm glad Lysa is gone, now just need to get rid of Robin.

    Really don't get all of the Sansa hate?? I really think she's been kept alive all this time for a reason.


  • #104
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I don't get it. Wasn't this obvious from the day Daario killed all his own mates because he fancied Dany so much? Was there any doubt he'd do the horizontal boogie with her if "ordered" to do so? Wouldn't anybody? :)
    This has nothing to do with what Daario wanted. It was all to do with Dany and what she wanted. That is a complete turn around for her character, compared to when we first met her.


    (*Where do you sign up for that job? :D )


  • #105
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    K_user wrote: »
    This has nothing to do with what Daario wanted. It was all to do with Dany and what she wanted. That is a complete turn around for her character, compared to when we first met her.


    (*Where do you sign up for that job? :D )
    How can you say it had nothing to do with Daario! He wanted Dany right from the start! Ordering a man to do something he's been desperate to do for ages doesn't seem all that amazing. The manipulation of the two lads, playing them off against one another is devious, and possibly a bigger character development in my mind. Not the kind of thing the generally straight forward Daenarys would've done up to this point.


  • #106
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    So if a kid, a mate of one of the most dangerous men in Westeros, came up to you waving a sword you'd just ignore them? OK... It just makes no sense to me that he was cool enough to carry on a conversation with Sandro and Arya and then paralysed with fear enough to not defend himself at all. He'd obviously killed plenty of people before, why not just add Arya to the list?
    If you were standing in front of the hound, knowing that he is a beast with a sword. Knowing that your friend had just attempted to kill him. Would you be really watching the barely old enough to be a teenage girl?

    The soldier, probably not the brightest, was probably very confused as to why the the hound was asking him his name and barely moving. I would.


  • #107
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    How can you say it had nothing to do with Daario! He wanted Dany right from the start! Ordering a man to do something he's been desperate to do for ages doesn't seem all that amazing.
    The decision was hers. Not his. His "lust" had nothing to do with what happened.
    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    The manipulation of the two lads, playing them off against one another is devious, and possibly a bigger character development in my mind. Not the kind of thing the generally straight forward Daenarys would've done up to this point.
    You seem to not have read my previous point of how Dany was almost Tywin like in her new dealings with ruling and her allies?
    K_user wrote: »
    A few weeks ago people were complaining that Dany was yet again attacking a city, it had all been done before. Now we see her make difficult decisions, while sorting out the internal issues of her nearest and dearest. All without breaking a sweat. Almost Tywin like. :p


  • #108
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Dempsey wrote: »
    All the interactions with Tyrion were excellent. The Oberyn vs Mountain battle was well telegraphed on here, i wonder if it was non book readers reading spoilers, but the plot development & dialogue to get there was still gripping. Oberyn is going to make short work of the Mountain imo although I do think the Mountain taunting him could force a rush of blood to the head.

    The rest was filler by comparison
    To be honest I thought it was reasonably obvious (but still very well done) from the cutaways to Oberyn in the trial scenes where his reactions were a lot different to others, to his talk with Varys of training with the unsullied, and also that Tywin promised him the Mountain a few episodes back if I recall.

    I thought it was great how Bronn stepped aside without having to turn sides or anything also.

    Really hoping Oberyn wins out of course and I marine he will, but being GOT and with the Hounds talk of knights/training/etc not being worth anything and Bronn's of one wrong step, I still have a kind of sinking feeling that the Mountain might just slaughter him in a brutally one sided fight. What he mentioned about the Mountain being 'the first' though makes me think he will likely win out.


  • #109
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    fluke wrote: »
    Methinks I'm gonna have to leave this thread (and forum) altogether. Feel like it's become a place for some book readers to vacate and mess around.

    I'm going to say this as someone who had a few of the events of this season spoiled before its start - Jeoffry's death, who was responsible, the trial and the participants of the upcoming trial by battle.

    I'm saying it now - I'm confident that there are certain people posting here who are posting "predictions" based on foreknowledge.

    It's one of the reason I am not posting here this season.


  • #110
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Billy86 wrote: »
    To be honest I thought it was reasonably obvious (but still very well done) from the cutaways to Oberyn in the trial scenes where his reactions were a lot different to others, to his talk with Varys of training with the unsullied, and also that Tywin promised him the Mountain a few episodes back if I recall.

    I thought it was great how Bronn stepped aside without having to turn sides or anything also.

    Really hoping Oberyn wins out of course and I marine he will, but being GOT and with the Hounds talk of knights/training/etc not being worth anything and Bronn's of one wrong step, I still have a kind of sinking feeling that the Mountain might just slaughter him in a brutally one sided fight. What he mentioned about the Mountain being 'the first' though makes me think he will likely win out.
    Bronn said it all. He's a sellsword who has been handsomely paid. He has more now than he ever thought he'd have. Why get killed for friendship?

    Oberyn came to KL looking for a fight. He wants to kill the Mountain. Sitting on the small council was just for fun. He knows Tywin is looking for an alliance, so he's in a position of complete power. Getting Tyrion off would be a complete win-win. He'd annoy the Lannisters and get some of his revenge. If he dies, his family, and country would be even more p*ssed off. Tywin would be SOL if he went looking for an alliance in the future.


  • #111
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    K_user wrote: »
    The decision was hers. Not his. His "lust" had nothing to do with what happened.
    I've no idea what that means. If the decision wasn't hers then Daario would have to rape her to get what he wanted anyway.
    How is it a display of power to order people to do what they already wanted to do, and was plain as day to everybody including Daenarys that he wanted to? If Tywin orders Tyrion to get drunk in a brothel, does that mean he has finally got Tryion under his thumb?


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  • #112
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    K_user wrote: »
    If you were standing in front of the hound, knowing that he is a beast with a sword. Knowing that your friend had just attempted to kill him. Would you be really watching the barely old enough to be a teenage girl?

    The soldier, probably not the brightest, was probably very confused as to why the the hound was asking him his name and barely moving. I would.
    I wouldn't be having a conversation with her neither. Chop. Why wait? Any vicious criminal from King's Landing would surely have come across kids well able to kill before, not to mention wouldn't have any qualms about doing them in either.
    I'm not even sure why The Hound let Arya near Rorge for a duel or whatever. What the hell was he thinking letting them have that stand off? She dies and he loses the last bargaining chip he has.


  • #113
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    I agree that Dany commanding your man to get naked and have sex with her is not much of a display of power, its something the guy clearly wanted since they met. Commanding himself and the other guy to get down to the nasty in front of her for her amusement would have been a better demonstration of her power and authority over them.....though, not a nice image.


  • #114
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Really hoping Oberyn wins out of course and I marine he will, but being GOT and with the Hounds talk of knights/training/etc not being worth anything and Bronn's of one wrong step, I still have a kind of sinking feeling that the Mountain might just slaughter him in a brutally one sided fight. What he mentioned about the Mountain being 'the first' though makes me think he will likely win out.
    I know he's a colossus and obvious has a bit of a mean streak, but it's hard to get a sense of how good a scrapper Gregor is without seeing him in any proper combat. Smashing puny slaves for a few seconds didn't give me any real sense that he's the best fighter around, a scene or two of him doing some real damage as build up would've been nice.


  • #115
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    kryogen wrote: »
    I agree that Dany commanding your man to get naked and have sex with her is not much of a display of power, its something the guy clearly wanted since they met. Commanding himself and the other guy to get down to the nasty in front of her for her amusement would have been a better demonstration of her power and authority over them.....though, not a nice image.
    And I'm pretty sure Daenarys was somewhat getting her way in the sack with Drogo in season 1? She started off submissive, but was giving him some (most agreeable) orders after a while IIRC.


  • #116
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,773 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I know he's a colossus and obvious has a bit of a mean streak, but it's hard to get a sense of how good a scrapper Gregor is without seeing him in any proper combat. Smashing puny slaves for a few seconds didn't give me any real sense that he's the best fighter around, a scene or two of him doing some real damage as build up would've been nice.

    He chops a horses head off in season 1 and fights the hound though it didn't go on very long. Would have been better if they had showed him out pillaging or something though yeah, I found the scene we got a bit silly.


  • #117
    Hippo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭Hippo


    Big improvement on the last couple of episodes, though Daario is rapidly becoming the most irritating character. Mind you, that actor was irritating in Treme too...


  • #118
    Turtyturd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,402 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    It's been stated loads of times how fierce and feared he is, and Mickeroo said there was the scene at the tourney....they really should be able to give viewers a bit of credit and not need to reinforce it on a weekly basis.


  • #119
    IrishAlice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭IrishAlice


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    It's been stated loads of times how fierce and feared he is, and Mickeroo said there was the scene at the tourney....they really should be able to give viewers a bit of credit and not need to reinforce it on a weekly basis.

    I've been watching GoT since the start and I still need the little reminders of the characters, there's just so many to keep up with.

    Plus I won't google anything in case I stumble upon any spoilers :D


  • #120
    eyeball kid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭eyeball kid


    Hippo wrote: »
    Big improvement on the last couple of episodes, though Daario is rapidly becoming the most irritating character. Mind you, that actor was irritating in Treme too...

    Thats where I recognise him from! thanks.


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  • #121
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    He chops a horses head off in season 1 and fights the hound though it didn't go on very long. Would have been better if they had showed him out pillaging or something though yeah, I found the scene we got a bit silly.

    Yeah, thought if they showed him in one of the villages pillagaing and murdering innocent peasants and then being recalled, it might have been better. Show him accidently cutting off off one of the messengers heads mid-rage, slicing and dicing the local folk etc etc ! :p


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