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Tragic yet worrying scenes in waterford last night

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    #392
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Owryan wrote: »
    He is a garda, perfectly entitled to chase them down, after ringing the police although why he would ring the UK i dont know:D

    Entitled to yes, but what was he hoping to achieve? Was he going to arrest them for littering? and then ask them to wait patiently until back up came?


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    #393
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Entitled to yes, but what was he hoping to achieve? Was he going to arrest them for littering? and then ask them to wait patiently until back up came?

    How about detain them in connection with whatever criminal act he believed they carried out? I would assume this was a worthwhile endeavour.

    With all due respect you seem to have a major issue with a garda doing his job, insinuating he was drunk for example or that he initiated the incident.


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    #394
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    I genuinely hope it comes to your door and I say that reluctantly, then you will get a dose of reality and come into the real world, there are people especially the elderly all over the country imprisoned in their own home because of thugs like these, I can tell you the sound of breaking glass to these people is pretty frighting and it's a credit to the garda that he was prepared to stand up to them, it's people with attitudes like you that create a system that tolerates them!

    People like me? :D:P: yeah, maybe i should be more like you and spit on the graves of the dead, who arent even cold yet because they they make noise that frightens some old people.

    How does it feel to be judge, jury and executioner?


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    #395
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Entitled to yes, but what was he hoping to achieve? Was he going to arrest them for littering? and then ask them to wait patiently until back up came?

    I agreed with shady tady brown bomber. Its blatantly obvious that you've never been a victim of this type of intimidation, and that you have no sympathy for all the elderly or vulnerable people who have been victims of the type of cretins who your are fighting tooth and nail here to defend.
    Your probably too young but maybe in the not too distant future you will find yourself apprehensively approaching your home or car near to which a bunch of stoned/drunk unstable group are loitering.
    I hope you can keep you liberal standpoint then.


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    #396
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Entitled to yes, but what was he hoping to achieve? Was he going to arrest them for littering? and then ask them to wait patiently until back up came?

    You ignore the fact that these guys were vandalising cars on the street. You ignore the fact that they were throwing bottles around the street or at houses. You ignore the fact that ANY citizen is within their rights to detain someone they suspect of criminal behaviour (e.g criminal damage). You ignore the fact that the Garda is the guy who received an injury to THE BACK of his head.

    You ignore every single piece of evidence and every fact that would lead a REASONABLE person to conclude that four thugs were confronted about their CRIMINAL behaviour, they attacked the courageous man who stood up to them, and one of them killed himself trying to flee justice.

    Why do you work so hard to view things in such a bizarre and distorted way? Do you think you are better than normal people, with your constant 'holier than thou' and 'leftier than thou' bullsh!t on every thread? Do you think we should have to tolerate criminals trashing our cars, our homes and our towns?

    You are either a troll or a complete weirdo. I genuinely hope that some scumbags trash your car or your home, and you can come on here and tell us you forgive them and how you are in fact the person to blame for having the cheek to have a home or a car.

    Unbelievable.


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    #397
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    People like me? :D:P: yeah, maybe i should be more like you and spit on the graves of the dead, who arent even cold yet because they they make noise that frightens some old people.

    How does it feel to be judge, jury and executioner?

    Nice language, says a lot about you!


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    #398
    lighterman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 320 ✭✭lighterman


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Is it not lighter man. So you have no objections then if I come down tonight and throw some at you, your house, your car, and your family?

    Of course I would but if you don't damage my house or car or family it is not criminal.

    If you damaged my house or car it is criminal damage but the crime is not throwing the bottle.

    if my family were injured it is assault but no one would be charged with throwing the bottle.

    again for clarification throwing a bottle is not a criminal offence.

    just stating the law


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    #399
    lighterman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 320 ✭✭lighterman


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    Who says he felt threatened?, it's his job to catch these people.

    Its not his job when off duty.He calls it in to the local station and they deal with it


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    #400
    lighterman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 320 ✭✭lighterman


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    Nice language, says a lot about you!

    ive seen worse:confused:


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    #401
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    Nice language, says a lot about you!

    His respect for innocent elderly people really comes across there, doesn't it? Sure f*ck them if they are scared of young criminals trashing their cars.


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    #402
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    lighterman wrote: »
    Of course I would but if you don't damage my house or car or family it is not criminal.
    If you put people in fear that they will be attacked, that is assault.


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    #403
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    I genuinely hope it comes to your door and I say that reluctantly, then you will get a dose of reality and come into the real world, there are people especially the elderly all over the country imprisoned in their own home because of thugs like these, I can tell you the sound of breaking glass to these people is pretty frighting and it's a credit to the garda that he was prepared to stand up to them, it's people with attitudes like you that create a system that tolerates them!

    If this real world involves celebrating the death of a young student for being allegedly rowdy in the vicinity of a police mans home you can keep it, i dont want any part of it.

    And a quick reminder that these old people were teenagers once themselves and likely bothered the old people of the day with their antics.


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    #404
    Dermot Illogical
    Registered Users Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Dermot Illogical


    I was agreeing with you until your 2nd point. You're making the mistake of thinking that the press are simply trotting out printing a garda version of events. The variations in the reporting alone should tell you that's not the case. The press are more than capable of making it up as they go along, inventing "sources" and printing the maddest hearsay account they can find as if it were gospel. You're doing well if they get basic geography correct.

    The official garda accounts of incidents are generally sterile and deliberately judgement-free. I don't think they've released one in this case.
    bajer101 wrote: »

    The story of events that the press are reporting is the story that has been provided to them by the Gardai. If the Indo or Times were granted interviews with the three lads in custody - and if they published those stories as fact, would you believe them? I am absolutely astounded that people are still accepting as fact anything that is released by AGS. Has Morris, Smithwick and Guerin taught you nothing? They tell fúckin lies! Dungarvan Garda station is not exactly blemish free. There is still a serious case under investigation by GSOC, AFAIK - where a young man died in custody.


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    #405
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    His respect for innocent elderly people really comes across there, doesn't it? Sure f*ck them if they are scared of young criminals trashing their cars.

    Criminals? I believe 3 were released with charge and the fourth is dead. I have a great deal of respect for the elderly as i have for ALL human life. How about you?


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    #406
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    If this real world involves celebrating the death of a young student for being allegedly rowdy in the vicinity of a police mans home you can keep it, i dont want any part of it.
    There doesn't seem to be any imminent risk of you being part of the real world.

    It's laughable how you jump down the throats of people assuming that they guy was involved in criminal behaviour just because he was part of a gang that was trashing cars, throwing bottles around, assaulting a Garda and then killing himself as he fled.

    But it's ok for you to assume that the elderly people on the street were once criminals themselves?

    Absolutely laughable.


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    #407
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    lighterman wrote: »
    ive seen worse:confused:

    Keep the race to the bottom going, you'll soon be there!


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    #408
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    And a quick reminder that these old people were teenagers once themselves and likely bothered the old people of the day with their antics.

    A line akin to "everybody partied" often trotted out to calm the masses strung out after the wastage of the Celtic tiger years.
    That's a line of horseshit also


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    #409
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Criminals? I believe 3 were released with charge and the fourth is dead. I have a great deal of respect for the elderly as i have for ALL human life. How about you?
    Is a file being sent to the DPP, as is usual before charges are pressed? Do you know that these guys have no criminal records?

    Funny, I don't recall you mounting such a defence of noted NON-criminal Sean Fitzpatrick.


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    #410
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    If you put people in fear that they will be attacked, that is assault.

    And how were the going to attack the garda from 500m away with a bottle mortar?


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    #411
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    And how were the going to attack the garda from 500m away with a bottle mortar?
    Well they just waited until one of them got behind him before smashing a bottle on the back of his head, risking killing him. Another fact you choose to ignore.

    (incidentally, I was correcting the guy on his knowledge of the law - I doubt the Garda ever thought he would be attacked by the gang)


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    #412
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    Is a file being sent to the DPP, as is usual before charges are pressed? Do you know that these guys have no criminal records?

    Funny, I don't recall you mounting such a defence of noted NON-criminal Sean Fitzpatrick.

    That might have something to do with you opening your account 5 minutes ago. Are you undercover?

    I would defend any irish citizen of being innocent until proven guilty


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    #413
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    I would defend any irish citizen of being innocent until proven guilty
    Except of course those elderly criminals who lived on the street, who the gang were entitled to terrorise, and the Garda thug who chased one of these poor innocents to his death.


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    #414
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    Well they just waited until one of them got behind him before smashing a bottle on the back of his head, risking killing him. Another fact you choose to ignore.

    (incidentally, I was correcting the guy on his knowledge of the law - I doubt the Garda ever thought he would be attacked by the gang)

    That he was attacked and not the attacker is idle speculation at this point. I have friends in the guards, who has been in the presence of illegal activties, amongst friends or strangers fighting on the street for example and he tells me they are advised to not intervene as off duty officers as they are placing themselves in danger without their equipment and back up and so on. They maintain the power to do so but are under no obligation.

    No serious crime, if any, had occured by the time he chased them down and confronted them. In fact, pending more information being released we cant be sure any crime was committed at all , as the policeman may not have identified himself and may have been the aggressor when the violence occured.


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    #415
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    That might have something to do with you opening your account 5 minutes ago. Are you undercover?

    I would defend any irish citizen of being innocent until proven guilty

    You're my hero!


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    #416
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    You're my hero!

    I think you are confusing me with jeremy clarkson.


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    #417
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    No serious crime, if any, had occured by the time he chased them down and confronted them. In fact, pending more information being released we cant be sure any crime was committed at all , as the policeman may not have identified himself and may have been the aggressor when the violence occured.

    Regardless of your definition of a serious crime, they were throwing bottles at houses before they hit the gardas house, and continued to do so afterwards, despite several people being out on the street.

    They were also smashing up cars, you might not think that's serious crime, but some people need their cars for work, and replacing a window/panel costs money a lot of people don't have.


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    #418
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    No serious crime, if any, had occured by the time he chased them down and confronted them. In fact, pending more information being released we cant be sure any crime was committed at all , as the policeman may not have identified himself and may have been the aggressor when the violence occured.
    So you would prefer a society where people are free to smash other people's property, vandalise at will, and put elderly people in fear in their homes?

    You 'care' about the innocent, yeah? What about the right of innocent people not to live in fear, have their hard-earned belongings trashed, their neighbourhood vandalised, their rest disturbed?

    If the Garda had not confronted these scumbags, they would have got away with what they did, same as scumbags usually get away with it. That's the society you want to live in. I prefer one where people are held to account for their crimes, where people stand up to criminals.

    So one of them died as he tried to escape. Tough ****. There are hundreds of genuine tragedies happening every week in this country alone. I'll save my sympathy for those people - people driven to suicide by local thugs, that sort of thing. I don't celebrate his death. I just don't care.

    You, on the other hand, preoccupy yourself with the guys who commit the crimes. Perhaps you envy them, somehow?


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    #419
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,967 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    No serious crime, if any, had occured by the time he chased them down and confronted them.

    No serious crime...except assault.
    The Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission has begun an investigation following the death of a teenager in a suspected drowning in Co Waterford after the youth fled the scene of an earlier incident in which a senior garda was assaulted.


    GSOC named the teenager as Jamie Ducey (18) from Cluain Garbhain in Dungarvan and he was found in a stream at the Sallybrook Estate in Abbeyside area of the town having fled from an earlier incident in which a local garda officer had been assaulted.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/teenager-dies-fleeing-scene-of-garda-assault-in-co-waterford-1.1798349


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    #420
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    Regardless of your definition of a serious crime, they were throwing bottles at houses before they hit the gardas house, and continued to do so afterwards, despite several people being out on the street.

    They were also smashing up cars, you might not think that's serious crime, but some people need their cars for work, and replacing a window/panel costs money a lot of people don't have.
    Listen Nino, it's very important that you ignore the thousands of Euros of damage that these guys likely did to the cars of the residents, otherwise people might lose sympathy for the dead man. Sure what's a few thousand euros out of their pockets anyway, aren't we all loaded these days? They'd probably only blow it on mortgage payments or food anyhow, bloody bourgeoisie.


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    #421
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    Regardless of your definition of a serious crime, they were throwing bottles at houses before they hit the gardas house, and continued to do so afterwards, despite several people being out on the street.

    They were also smashing up cars, you might not think that's serious crime, but some people need their cars for work, and replacing a window/panel costs money a lot of people don't have.

    Your source for all of the above?


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