Tragic yet worrying scenes in waterford last night

bajer101

http://www.thejournal.ie/dungarvan-garda-station-death-1015563-Jul2013/

mrsbyrne

bajer101 wrote: »

Now you get it. The person who drew those pictures is now dead! A human being was born and learned things and experienced so many things and interacted with so many people. And now he is dead. He is a better artist than I will ever be. How you can not mourn that is beyond me. How you can practically rejoice in that is just beyond words.

Your wrong . I never rejoiced in anything. Why don't you readthe thread before you post yourself?the fact that he is dead doesn't change the fact that he was engaging in criminal behaviour immediately before his demise, losing your life does not change the facts. Being a good artist doesn't excuse his inconsiderate loutish behaviour.
This is what annoys the law abiding. "Oh its so sad. He's dead. Rewrite history. He wasn't a troubled out of control youth he was an excellent artist. Let's never mention his problems again. Let's turn him into a saint". People are sick of it. The man who stood up to him was nearly killed too. What concern have you shown for him his family or neighbours?

mrsbyrne

bajer101 wrote: »

Who says that's what happened? I really cannot understand why people are automatically believing the AGS version of events. The have been shown to be liars. Dungarvan station are still under investigation over a death in a cell. Have you been paying attention to the news? There is a corrupt core in AGS.

OK if you say you have a more likely scenario and that the guards are all corrupt then tell us what you think happened the lad, bearing in mind that the Coast Gaurd and the fire brigade will have to be involved in this conspiracy, as well as the coroner and the state pathologist. And it has to make sense.

bajer101

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Nobody said he was a major gangster. It'll come out at the inquest. Right now it looks as if he and hismstes were making s disturbance on their way from A to B throwing bottles and kicking cars in a residential street. A man came out of his property to challenge them it seems. The gang fled especially when the man got hit with a bottle in the head. This boy jumped over spiked railings in order to make good his escape, not realising the massive drop on the other side. It was pitch dark. They were probably under the influence. It looks as if he was killed in the fall. Possibly even s chance that he somehow drowned in swampy water . That's what it looks like.

Says who? This is the version of events that has been released to the press by AGS. The same organisation who have been recently been shown to be full of sh1t. So a senior member of AGS, in a jurisdiction which has a huge question mark over of it about the DEATH of someone in their custody says that there were some youths breaking bottles outside his home. Something may or may not have happened, and now there is an 18 year old dead! He may or may not have tripped up on agricultural machinery and drowned? And you just automatically believe what AGS say? GSOC are on the case now, so we will see.

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Your wrong . I never rejoiced in anything. Why don't you readthe thread before you post yourself?the fact that he is dead doesn't change the fact that he was engaging in criminal behaviour immediately before his demise, losing your life does not change the facts. Being a good artist doesn't excuse his inconsiderate loutish behaviour.
This is what annoys the law abiding. "Oh its so sad. He's dead. Rewrite history. He wasn't a troubled out of control youth he was an excellent artist. Let's never mention his problems again. Let's turn him into a saint". People are sick of it. The man who stood up to him was nearly killed too. What concern have you shown for him his family or neighbours?

I did read the whole thread. I took about an hour out of my time to read it all as I used to live there. We don't know anything as fact yet. But why do you believe that AGS are the absolute good guys here and that everything that you have read is the truth? Have you really not being paying attention to the news?

mrsbyrne wrote: »

OK if you say you have a more likely scenario and that the guards are all corrupt then tell us what you think happened the lad, bearing in mind that the Coast Gaurd and the fire brigade will have to be involved in this conspiracy, as well as the coroner and the state pathologist. And it has to make sense.

I am not saying that anything definitely happened. But everyone else on this thread is saying that the AGS version is definitely what happened. If we have learned anything from Morris, Smithwick and Guerin, is that they lie. You seem to be of the belief that a conspiracy involving AGS could never take place. We all know now that conspiracies involving AGS have taken place.

Twenty years ago the lad could have been chased down and drowned and no one would be any of the wiser. That could never happen now though, could it? I'd say Maurice McCabe would argue differently - and he wasn't in a station where someone died in a cell!

Little CuChulainn

bajer101 wrote: »

Says who? This is the version of events that has been released to the press by AGS. The same organisation who have been recently been shown to be full of sh1t. So a senior member of AGS, in a jurisdiction which has a huge question mark over of it about the DEATH of someone in their custody says that there were some youths breaking bottles outside his home. Something may or may not have happened, and now there is an 18 year old dead! He may or may not have tripped up on agricultural machinery and drowned? And you just automatically believe what AGS say? GSOC are on the case now, so we will see.



I did read the whole thread. I took about an hour out of my time to read it all as I used to live there. We don't know anything as fact yet. But why do you believe that AGS are the absolute good guys here and that everything that you have read is the truth? Have you really not being paying attention to the news?



I am not saying that anything definitely happened. But everyone else on this thread is saying that the AGS version is definitely what happened. If we have learned anything from Morris, Smithwick and Guerin, is that they lie. You seem to be of the belief that a conspiracy involving AGS could never take place. We all know now that conspiracies involving AGS have taken place.

Twenty years ago the lad could have been chased down and drowned and no one would be any of the wiser. That could never happen now though, could it? I'd say Maurice McCabe would argue differently - and he wasn't in a station where someone died in a cell!

It's funny that you say 20 years ago because that's the time the Smithwick and Morris tribunals are based on. As tot he Guerin report, there's not much about lying in it, it's about low standards. Try reading something before you spout it.

digzy

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Is it saying they went to attack the Garda in his home and one of them ended up dead? Doesn't sound very tragic to me.

Sounds like they were got by the"karma police"!!

GarIT

Why do people care what happened? Maybe it was an accident maybe it was on purpose, either way it can only be a good thing.

lighterman

GarIT wrote: »

Why do people care what happened? Maybe it was an accident maybe it was on purpose, either way it can only be a good thing.

What and how can any of it be good?

GarIT

lighterman wrote: »

What and how can any of it be good?

There is less scum in the world, it makes everybody safer.

lighterman

GarIT wrote: »

There is less scum in the world, it makes everybody safer.

Ah right, now I understand. Thanks:rolleyes:

Baron Kurtz

The most worrying thing is the report.

"Although details are still sketchy, it is understood the teenager was one of a small group of two or four who went to a garda’s home late last night"

"His attackers fled the scene, at least one of them on foot. That person has died, after a fall,"

The context is completely muddled. What's with the last line? It's odd how someone is employed to write this confused, incoherent garbage.

TonyStark

Having read a lot of the posts here in relation to this, I feel zero sympathy for the man on account of his actions prior to his death. I feel so sorry for his family and condolences to them at this sad time and the way he let them down in the final moments of his life.

As a kid something similar happened to my family. It had stemmed from a land dispute with group of men in the locality. They managed to rile one individual up to attack my father (now deceased) in our family home. Within it was my brother, sister, mother, elderly great aunt and my mother's two elderly cousins home on holidays.

The first we heard was a car revving it's engine outside our front gate. Dad went to investigate and was set on my another man. He was punched, knocked to the ground and kicked. He told dad he had something with him that would fix him for good. As he fumbled for something my dad managed to retreat back to the house. As the assault had happened outside the bounds of the property (we learned in court) it was looked on as lesser offence.

The individual knowing that it would be more serious to actually invade the house proceeded to terrorize us from the outside by throwing rocks into our roof (we lived on a hillside in a rural area). He spilt petrol outside and ignited it in an attempt to get my father outside to have another go at him. This carried on for a number of hours. My mother had kettles of boiling water ready for him should he have entered the house. I remember that so vividly, it's so strange to write it down.

As it was reek Saturday/Sunday all the guards in the district were occupied, eventually two arrived and the man was arrested after assaulting one of them - to cut a long story short.

In the end he got 6 months suspended and bound to the peace for a couple of years. The punishment was lessened as the offenders mother was elderly and frail and the local doctor vouched for the guy in court. Basically got off with nothing more than a slap on the wrists and a warning to keep away. He was heard some months later drunkenly boasting that he was going to go back and kill my Dad - nothing ever came of this, the guards warned him to stay away. The effects of the whole incident lasted for ages afterwards, it was a tough time at home.

Six months later we had two victim support people call to the house went through the whole thing again.I still see the guy that assaulted dad around, if something unfortunate were to befall him. I don't think I would lie and say I would be terribly upset, but, the feeling of hatred towards him has abated with the passage of time.

Had the Waterford man gotten away he would have joked about the night with his mates. For him it would have become a badge of honor increased his ego and inflated his "hard man" Image. There would be facebook posts, tattoos, drink an drug fuelled sessions celebrating the fact they terrorized a family. There would be little thought for their victims and their upset.

I feel happy that the worry for the family is over. It's unlikely that any of the thugs in question will attack the family again after the misadventure of their first attempt. They don't have to live with the threat and it's a good first step on the long road of closure for them.

However it may make his accomplices think more about their actions. Rather than take on the guards with an iron bar like the man than terrorized my family, they all legged it. Not one of his friends looked out for him or made sure he was OK.They all ran away in separate directions with a yellow streak down their backs. Nothing more than cowards that let their friend down to save their own skin.

So when I read a story about people being terrorized in their homes, I do feel sorry for the families involved on both sides. But I think that I can empathize with the family of the victims involved more than most. Even writing the above has brought back memories that have not surfaced in a long long time.

Brown Bomber

TonyStark wrote: »

Having read a lot of the posts here in relation to this, I feel zero sympathy for the man on account of his actions prior to his death. I feel so sorry for his family and condolences to them at this sad time and the way he let them down in the final moments of his life.

As a kid something similar happened to my family. It had stemmed from a land dispute with group of men in the locality. They managed to rile one individual up to attack my father (now deceased) in our family home. Within it was my brother, sister, mother, elderly great aunt and my mother's two elderly cousins home on holidays.

The first we heard was a car revving it's engine outside our front gate. Dad went to investigate and was set on my another man. He was punched, knocked to the ground and kicked. He told dad he had something with him that would fix him for good. As he fumbled for something my dad managed to retreat back to the house. As the assault had happened outside the bounds of the property (we learned in court) it was looked on as lesser offence.

The individual knowing that it would be more serious to actually invade the house proceeded to terrorize us from the outside by throwing rocks into our roof (we lived on a hillside in a rural area). He spilt petrol outside and ignited it in an attempt to get my father outside to have another go at him. This carried on for a number of hours. My mother had kettles of boiling water ready for him should he have entered the house. I remember that so vividly, it's so strange to write it down.

As it was reek Saturday/Sunday all the guards in the district were occupied, eventually two arrived and the man was arrested after assaulting one of them - to cut a long story short.

In the end he got 6 months suspended and bound to the peace for a couple of years. The punishment was lessened as the offenders mother was elderly and frail and the local doctor vouched for the guy in court. Basically got off with nothing more than a slap on the wrists and a warning to keep away. He was heard some months later drunkenly boasting that he was going to go back and kill my Dad - nothing ever came of this, the guards warned him to stay away. The effects of the whole incident lasted for ages afterwards, it was a tough time at home.

Six months later we had two victim support people call to the house went through the whole thing again.I still see the guy that assaulted dad around, if something unfortunate were to befall him. I don't think I would lie and say I would be terribly upset, but, the feeling of hatred towards him has abated with the passage of time.

Had the Waterford man gotten away he would have joked about the night with his mates. For him it would have become a badge of honor increased his ego and inflated his "hard man" Image. There would be facebook posts, tattoos, drink an drug fuelled sessions celebrating the fact they terrorized a family. There would be little thought for their victims and their upset.

I feel happy that the worry for the family is over. It's unlikely that any of the thugs in question will attack the family again after the misadventure of their first attempt. They don't have to live with the threat and it's a good first step on the long road of closure for them.

However it may make his accomplices think more about their actions. Rather than take on the guards with an iron bar like the man than terrorized my family, they all legged it. Not one of his friends looked out for him or made sure he was OK.They all ran away in separate directions with a yellow streak down their backs. Nothing more than cowards that let their friend down to save their own skin.

So when I read a story about people being terrorized in their homes, I do feel sorry for the families involved on both sides. But I think that I can empathize with the family of the victims involved more than most. Even writing the above has brought back memories that have not surfaced in a long long time.

In fairness, it doesn't appear to resemble your case at all. Apparently your family was targetted, this appears to be a random act of criminality, minor criminality in the first place at that. I grew up in middle class, south dublin suburbia and smashing bottles and acting like drunken dickheads is what teenagers all over ireland do, same goes for his artwork. To completely disregard the principle of innocent until proven guilty and condemn a teenager to death for smashing some bottles is disgusting in the extreme. If the official story is factual then wtf was this rambo guard doing chasing them after they had left? No real harm had been done at that point.

Mountainsandh

It is not known if the location of the antisocial behaviour was deliberate. They may have thrown bottles on the ground outside the guard's door deliberately, or they may just have happened to walk by that spot by chance, and not known the guard lived there.

As I mentioned earlier, it is an area youth would be walking around at night to go to each other's house parties all the time.

So as far as we know right now, it was not a deliberate attack on a guard's home (despite very vague and bad reporting).

Shady Tady

Brown Bomber wrote: »

In fairness, it doesn't appear to resemble your case at all. Apparently your family was targetted, this appears to be a random act of criminality, minor criminality in the first place at that. I grew up in middle class, south dublin suburbia and smashing bottles and acting like drunken dickheads is what teenagers all over ireland do, same goes for his artwork. To completely disregard the principle of innocent until proven guilty and condemn a teenager to death for smashing some bottles is disgusting in the extreme. If the official story is factual then wtf was this rambo guard doing chasing them after they had left? No real harm had been done at that point.

I wonder if they were at your family door smashing bottles would you be such a Mother Theresa, asshole!

thirdtime

Was Ducey mates with the young man Who died in the Dungarvan garda station cell?

Mountainsandh

The young fellow whose photo is on the page with Jamie did not die in the garda station. It's a different youngster who died in a different manner.

mrsbyrne

Brown Bomber wrote: »

In fairness, it doesn't appear to resemble your case at all. Apparently your family was targetted, this appears to be a random act of criminality, minor criminality in the first place at that. I grew up in middle class, south dublin suburbia and smashing bottles and acting like drunken dickheads is what teenagers all over ireland do, same goes for his artwork. To completely disregard the principle of innocent until proven guilty and condemn a teenager to death for smashing some bottles is disgusting in the extreme. If the official story is factual then wtf was this rambo guard doing chasing them after they had left? No real harm had been done at that point.

You seem to be espousing the idea that damaging cars and throwing bottles is a teenagers entitlement and if the idiot garda had just taken his medicine and cowered inside his front door until they had finished indulging themselves, then he wouldn't have had his head split open and the potential Michaelangelo would be still alive. Hmmm.
So its the gardas own fault that he has a massive headache and he's actually responsible for the death of this lad?

TonyStark

Brown Bomber wrote: »

In fairness, it doesn't appear to resemble your case at all. Apparently your family was targetted, this appears to be a random act of criminality, minor criminality in the first place at that. I grew up in middle class, south dublin suburbia and smashing bottles and acting like drunken dickheads is what teenagers all over ireland do, same goes for his artwork. To completely disregard the principle of innocent until proven guilty and condemn a teenager to death for smashing some bottles is disgusting in the extreme. If the official story is factual then wtf was this rambo guard doing chasing them after they had left? No real harm had been done at that point.

I think there were victims here..as well. In fairness the Garda was within his rights to defend his family!

So local lads who didn't know where the local Garda lives....if they were innocent why run? Unlike 'Dublin Suburbia' there are places where people know their neighbors!

Surely a misunderstanding could have been cleared up! Why run?

No real harm other than a family being terrorized and a Garda assaulted....agreed!

The Garda had balls to confront them. The fact is that they were not kids or early teens. They were grown men, one of whom had pictures on his facebook either condoning drug use and finger up to the law either that or he was an intellect with a shall sense of artistic irony.

No one is condemning him to death. His drunken foolishness was the undoing of him.

Brown Bomber

Shady Tady wrote: »

I wonder if they were at your family door smashing bottles would you be such a Mother Theresa, asshole!

What evidence do you have of anyone smashing bottles AT his family door? Do you really think an appropriate punishment for causing a disturbance in public is a extra judicial death at the hands of the local travis bickle?

I never realised the level of prejudice in ireland. There is so little we know of this tragedy other than one side of the story and hysterical reporting but people are dancing on the grave of an irish student based on sterotypes they have of a vermin underclass. Shameful. Enda Kenny even compared this kid to the IRA.

Mountainsandh

They might not have known where he lived, but known him. They're all probably on probation for one thing or another, so of course they'd run.

Brown Bomber

TonyStark wrote: »

I think there were victims here..as well. In fairness the Garza was within his rights to defend his family!

So local lads who didn't know where the local Garda lives....if they were innocent why run? Surely a misunderstanding could have been cleared upl :-)

Im sorry, but defend his family from what? The sound of glass breaking?

lighterman

Mountainsandh wrote: »

They might not have known where he lived, but known him. They're all probably on probation for one thing or another, so of course they'd run.

Ya because every teenager is on probation.:rolleyes:

Shady Tady

Brown Bomber wrote: »

What evidence do you have of anyone smashing bottles AT his family door? Do you really think an appropriate punishment for causing a disturbance in public is a extra judicial death at the hands of the local travis bickle?

I never realised the level of prejudice in ireland. There is so little we know of this tragedy other than one side of the story and hysterical reporting but people are dancing on the grave of an irish student based on sterotypes they have of a vermin underclass. Shameful. Enda Kenny even compared this kid to the IRA.

What would you have done? You with 20/20 hindsight? Get into the real world and stop pontificating!

littleblackDRS

After reading through the whole thread, I really can't understand why anyone would give a toss about this. Darwinism, pure and simple.

Mountainsandh

Lighterman I know some of the people involved, don't know personal legal situations in details though, but have a pretty good general idea of who might be in trouble. That info is in the local papers regularly, anonymous when they're under age, nominal after 18. Dungarvan is a small town. But yes, it's an opinion not fact.

Brown Bomber

Shady Tady wrote: »

What would you have done? You with 20/20 hindsight? Get into the real world and stop pontificating!

Could you please just answer the question? What evidence do you have of anyone smashing bottles at his family door? What evidence do you have that this garda felt so threatened that he had to confront these guys as a matter of self defense?

TonyStark

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Im sorry, but defend his family from what? The sound of glass breaking?

I think people are entitled to live in peace. For all they knew the bottles could have gone through a window and injured a small child.

I think being struck by a bottle is evidence enough for me the gents were up to no good. Drunk and disorderly is still a crime.

Mountainsandh

littleblackDRS wrote: »

After reading through the whole thread, I really can't understand why anyone would give a toss about this. Darwinism, pure and simple.

It's just shocking to see human beings rejoicing in another human being's death. Maybe it shouldn't be. Maybe every time a boy racer smashes themselves to death we should all rejoice openly. But to me right now, from my point of view, it is shocking.

Brown Bomber

mrsbyrne wrote: »

You seem to be espousing the idea that damaging cars and throwing bottles is a teenagers entitlement and if the idiot garda had just taken his medicine and cowered inside his front door until they had finished indulging themselves, then he wouldn't have had his head split open and the potential Michaelangelo would be still alive. Hmmm.
So its the gardas own fault that he has a massive headache and he's actually responsible for the death of this lad?

There is no question, based on the available facts that if the guard had stayed in his home the HE WOULD NOT have been assaulted and this boy would still be alive. Its a chain of events that has his decision to confront those causing a nuisance to him as an integral part of the chain.