Tragic yet worrying scenes in waterford last night

lighterman

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/person-who-died-in-waterford-incident-was-teenage-boy-senior-garda-in-hospital-630692.html

Little CuChulainn

Is it saying they went to attack the Garda in his home and one of them ended up dead? Doesn't sound very tragic to me.

lighterman

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Is it saying they went to attack the Garda in his home and one of them ended up dead? Doesn't sound very tragic to me.

That's what it sounds like. tragic in the sense that a 14/16 year old (depending on what report you read) has lost his life. worrying in the sense that a serious incident occurred in a guards own home.

Little CuChulainn

lighterman wrote: »

That's what it sounds like. tragic in the sense that a 14/16 year old (depending on what report you read) has lost his life. worrying in the sense that a serious incident occurred in their own home.

A 14/16 year old who was involved in a home invasion. If that's the case, I don't find his death at all tragic. What's tragic is that we have a society that raises such animals.

lighterman

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

A 14/16 year old who was involved in a home invasion. If that's the case, I don't find his death at all tragic. What's tragic is that we have a society that raises such animals.

Ok

Dermot Illogical

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

A 14/16 year old who was involved in a home invasion. If that's the case, I don't find his death at all tragic. What's tragic is that we have a society that raises such animals.

I do find it tragic. Obviously we can't take media reports as being accurate...they never are, so this could be anything from a kid with a couple of beers on board doing something stupid right up to a scumbag out to do real damage. One end of that scale would be tragic.

As SF (Yay! We get to attack the police again!), FF (Yay! An issue that isn't the economy!) and various crackpots are having a field day attacking AGS every day, it's only a matter of time before the local 'intelligentsia' join in.

Little CuChulainn

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

I do find it tragic. Obviously we can't take media reports as being accurate...they never are, so this could be anything from a kid with a couple of beers on board doing something stupid right up to a scumbag out to do real damage. One end of that scale would be tragic.

As SF (Yay! We get to attack the police again!), FF (Yay! An issue that isn't the economy!) and various crackpots are having a field day attacking AGS every day, it's only a matter of time before the local 'intelligentsia' join in.

I just don't find the death automatically tragic. I wouldn't wish death on anyone but they could have easily killed the person they attacked, so I won't shed any tears for him if what has been reported so far is correct.

emo72

The little I heard, it was some kids throwing bottles at the house also the gard got hit. Doesn't sound like a home invasion. You don't invade homes by throwing bottles at it first. It absolutely sounds tragic. And I'd say the gard is more upset by what happened the kid. Kids shouldn't be going round throwing bottles at anything or anyone. It seems like a tragic accident.

enda1

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

A 14/16 year old who was involved in a home invasion. If that's the case, I don't find his death at all tragic. What's tragic is that we have a society that raises such animals.

This was in Waterford not Detroit!

Nino Brown

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

this could be anything from a kid with a couple of beers on board doing something stupid right up to a scumbag out to do real damage.

Why do people in Ireland act like these are two different things?, alcohol is not an excuse for violence. If a kid goes out drinking, and bottles somebody, he is a scumbag, regardless of what he chose to consume that night.

TheDoctor

Group of idiots go round to Gardas home and start throwing bottles at it.
Garda comes out to said idiots and gets assaulted.
Idiots run away and one gets himself killed.
No sympathies from me.

Stupid mistakes have serious consequences.

Example: that neknomination death

Any drink driving deaths.

And so on....

Little CuChulainn

enda1 wrote: »

This was in Waterford not Detroit!

And? Do you think it doesn't happen here? Wether it's a home invasion, burglary or simple property damage the invasion of a persons home is breach of one of their fundamental rights and can cause serious psychological damage. Maybe if we took it a bit more serious over here it wouldn't happen so much.

enda1

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

And? Do you think it doesn't happen here? Wether it's a home invasion, burglary or simple property damage the invasion of a persons home is breach of one of their fundamental rights and can cause serious psychological damage. Maybe if we took it a bit more serious over here it wouldn't happen so much.

There you go again with the invasion!
don't you worry. These terrorists got what was coming to them. Maybe the other three arrested can be renditioned to a containment facility.

Little CuChulainn

enda1 wrote: »

There you go again with the invasion!
don't you worry. These terrorists got what was coming to them. Maybe the other three arrested can be renditioned to a containment facility.

Is it that you don't know what a home invasion is or do you simply object to the non-legal terminology?

Nino Brown

enda1 wrote: »

There you go again with the invasion!
don't you worry. These terrorists got what was coming to them. Maybe the other three arrested can be renditioned to a containment facility.

What are you on about? Home invasions happen all the time in Ireland.

Eugene Gillespie killed in a home invasion, Sligo not Detroit.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-30-jailed-for-life-for-murder-of-eugene-gillespie-67-30153301.html

James Boyce Killed in home invasion, Limerick not Detroit
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/trial-in-murdered-limerick-pensioner-case-nears-an-end-29941739.html

enda1

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Is it that you don't know what a home invasion is or do you simply object to the non-legal terminology?

I'm "objecting" to the Fox News terror alert rhetoric.
Some kids acting the eejit got their comeuppance.

Little CuChulainn

enda1 wrote: »

I'm "objecting" to the Fox News terror alert rhetoric.
Some kids acting the eejit got their comeuppance.

It's got nothing to do with terrorism.

TheDoctor

Vandalizing someones property and putting someone in hospital after assault is now classified as "acting the eejit"?

Deary me

Dermot Illogical

Nino Brown wrote: »

Why do people in Ireland act like these are two different things?, alcohol is not an excuse for violence. If a kid goes out drinking, and bottles somebody, he is a scumbag, regardless of what he chose to consume that night.

Because they are very different things. If the local kids decide to have a go at my house I will not be happy. But they're only kids. As appears to be the case here they will run scared once confronted.
On the other hand if my house is being invaded by the sort of pure evil scumbag we let out of prison too freely, then I have a lot more to worry about.
You genuinely wouldn't see a difference?

And nowhere did I put forward alcohol as an excuse. I mentioned it as it's hardly a leap to imagine beer is involved. There were bottles thrown. The lads weren't out drinking milk.

enda1

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's got nothing to do with terrorism.

You don't seem to understand my point. Its the sensationalism related to the reporting. The Americanisation of news and reactions to it.

TheDoctor

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

Because they are very different things. If the local kids decide to have a go at my house I will not be happy. But they're only kids. As appears to be the case here they will run scared once confronted.
On the other hand if my house is being invaded by the sort of pure evil scumbag we let out of prison too freely, then I have a lot more to worry about.
You genuinely wouldn't see a difference?

And nowhere did I put forward alcohol as an excuse. I mentioned it as it's hardly a leap to imagine beer is involved. There were bottles thrown. The lads weren't out drinking milk.

They were 18 year olds, lets not pretend they were "kids". They knew full well what they were doing and had no good intentions when they went to the house.

Nino Brown

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

Because they are very different things. If the local kids decide to have a go at my house I will not be happy. But they're only kids. As appears to be the case here they will run scared once confronted.
On the other hand if my house is being invaded by the sort of pure evil scumbag we let out of prison too freely, then I have a lot more to worry about.
You genuinely wouldn't see a difference?

Didn't they stab the man after being confronted? Not exactly my definition of running scared.
And no I don't see any difference, we're not talking about throwing eggs here, when a "kid" crosses that's line and attacks somebody, they're just like any other scumbag and should be treated as such.

Dermot Illogical

TheDoctor wrote: »

They were 18 year olds, lets not pretend they were "kids". They knew full well what they were doing and had no good intentions when they went to the house.

It's being reported as 18 years old now, and nowhere did I say they were there to spread christmas cheer, but earlier reports had the age at 16.

I've seen reports that vary from kids throwing bottles (breakingnews/examiner) at the house right up to adults slashing the victim (independent). Todays lesson: Don't believe the press.

TheDoctor

Apparently the group were connected to a person that was arrested the previous day

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-arrest-man-armed-with-hatchet-after-burglary-in-waterford-30269888.html

Sounds like payback on the Guard was their motive

Dermot Illogical

TheDoctor wrote: »

Apparently the group were connected to a person that was arrested the previous day

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-arrest-man-armed-with-hatchet-after-burglary-in-waterford-30269888.html

Sounds like payback on the Guard was their motive

If true, bearing in mind this is the Irish Independent that's reporting it, that would not be on the tragic end of the scale I posted earlier.

elguapo

The Irish Times article:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/teenager-dies-after-garda-assaulted-in-dungarvan-1.1798349

"The events began after midnight when a garda superintendent confronted a group of males ranging in age from 16 to 20 years at the front of his house in Dungarvan. He went outside after his wife had heard what she thought was a bottle being thrown at the front of the property.
Once outside, the off-duty officer became involved in a confrontation with the group and sources said he was assaulted when a bottle was thrown at the back of his head.
He then chased the intruders and they dispersed in different directions. One of them, an 18-year-old from the locality, ran towards the nearby Sea Park area.
It appears he was attempting to cross a river as he fled and fell, possibly sustaining injuries from a pipe or sharp implement.
His body was later found in the water during searches of the area after the incident."


Seems like it was a cowardly assault followed by an unfortunate accident.

frostyjacks

GSOC are earning their salt these days. Never heard of them until recently, now there never out of the news.

'Fell on a sharp object' sounds a bit suspicious. Bit like prisoners of war shot while attempting to escape. No sympathy anyhow.

bravestar

Zero sympathy. Yet another member attacked at their own home. When will this country wake up a realise that the way they are asking AGS to do their job is outdated, unrealistic and putting the lives of members, and their families, at risk.

damienirel

This story along with yer man from love/hate getting shot in this mornings news is very depressing - this country is racing to the bottom on crime.

2 things that would stop this nonsense:

1. Free Legal Aid needs a massive overhaul. Lawyers that represent pond-life are pond-life themselves and need to be kept in check.

2. Harsher sentencing especially relating to those with previous convictions.
(The judicial merry-go-round the benefits lawyers and judges needs to stop).

Zulu

It baffles me that people are sympathetic towards this thug. Frankly my sympathy and concern lies with the Garda and his family. His wife and children must be terrified.

username123

Absolutely no sympathy for the scumbag in question. He was out looking for trouble and he found it.

Santa Cruz

Only issue that I have is that the others seem to have escape uninjured.

Chief87

No sympathy from me anyway...well I do..for the guard.

Dermot Illogical

Zulu wrote: »

It baffles me that people are sympathetic towards this thug. Frankly my sympathy and concern lies with the Garda and his family. His wife and children must be terrified.

Where did you see sympathy?

lighterman

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

Where did you see sympathy?

Probably talking about my thread title re "tragic". If he was 16 I still stand by it. There was plenty of time to turn his life around if help was given to him.

There is also a mother/father somewhere that has lost their son.

Zambia

I would agree with lighterman, its a life wasted.

Despicable behaviour, terrible outcome.

flutered

lighterman wrote: »

There is also a mother/father somewhere that has lost their son.

if they has made sure that he did not go around doing this stuff then i would feel deep sorrow for them, it looks as if they had failed or had never tried.

MrStuffins

The kid was definitely in the wrong. No question. Whether you consider it "acting the eejit" or a serious crime, he wasn't in the right!

But the seeming joy people are taking in telling everyone that t hey have no sympathy for this boy who DIED!! is absolutely sickening.

He was a young boy. Whole life ahead of him. maybe he was a little terror or a scum bag but there's nothing to say he couldn't have become a perfectly respectable adult. He is DEAD and everyone is acting like he got what he deserved because someone, not even proven to be him, threw a bottle at someone?

A few people in this thread really need to look themselves in the mirror!

Santa Cruz

lighterman wrote: »

Probably talking about my thread title re "tragic". If he was 16 I still stand by it. There was plenty of time to turn his life around if help was given to him.

There is also a mother/father somewhere that has lost their son.

"He was a good lad really. Why couldn't the Garda just leave him alone"

MrStuffins

flutered wrote: »

if they has made sure that he did not go around doing this stuff then i would feel deep sorrow for them, it looks as if they had failed or had never tried.

Mother of God!

allthedoyles

Damien Tiernan just said on the RTE news that they were all over 18

TheDoctor

MrStuffins wrote: »

The kid was definitely in the wrong. No question. Whether you consider it "acting the eejit" or a serious crime, he wasn't in the right!

But the seeming joy people are taking in telling everyone that t hey have no sympathy for this boy who DIED!! is absolutely sickening.

He was a young boy. Whole life ahead of him. maybe he was a little terror or a scum bag but there's nothing to say he couldn't have become a perfectly respectable adult. He is DEAD and everyone is acting like he got what he deserved because someone, not even proven to be him, threw a bottle at someone?

A few people in this thread really need to look themselves in the mirror!

No sympathies and have no need to look at myself in the mirror
Society will be better off without him
Shame the other 3 are still around to carry out more trouble in the future

MrStuffins

TheDoctor wrote: »

No sympathies and have no need to look at myself in the mirror
Society will be better off without him
Shame the other 3 are still around to carry out more trouble in the future

All you know about this kid is that he was outside a house in a group where someone threw a bottle and you are saying he deserved to die?

You see nothing wrong with that?

TheDoctor

MrStuffins wrote: »

All you know about this kid is that he was outside a house in a group where someone threw a bottle and you are saying he deserved to die?

You see nothing wrong with that?

I know this adult (over 18) was in a group who went to vandalize a person house and who then assault that person.
Tough luck to whatever happens to them after that.

drumswan

Does it not strike anyone as unlikely that someone would become separated from the rest, trip and hurt themselves, then fall into a river or stream and drown?

enda1

drumswan wrote: »

Does it not strike anyone as unlikely that someone would become separated from the rest, trip and hurt themselves, then fall into a river or stream and drown?

Huh? Sure they apparently all scattered. Seems logical and likely enough. No need to read conspiracy theories into it really.

Zambia

There is no guarantee thats what happened. The papers are dying to print something so they are happy to print first impressions.

However that scenario does not seem to far fetched.

No way of knowing for sure what happened but I hope the Garda didn't do anything he could get in trouble for and that it was just instant karma.

drumswan

enda1 wrote: »

Huh? Sure they apparently all scattered. Seems logical and likely enough. No need to read conspiracy theories into it really.

Of the outcomes I can think of from running through a marshy field, death is probably the most unlikely.

LorMal

bravestar wrote: »

Zero sympathy. Yet another member attacked at their own home. When will this country wake up a realise that the way they are asking AGS to do their job is outdated, unrealistic and putting the lives of members, and their families, at risk.

Really, ZERO sympathy?????
Are you a cop?