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Tragic yet worrying scenes in waterford last night

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    #452
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Once again brown bomber "bothering old people with their antics" means playing knick knack on a summers evening before you got called in for your tea and bed. This gang were returning from a beach party drunk/high throwing bottles at peoples houses and smashing car windows. I'm not going to let you diminish the suffering and fear of the elderly. Antics my arse. Your quite insufferable.
    He bends over backwards to forgive and understand some people, full of human love and moral superiority - criminals, Muslim terrorists etc.

    But don't get him started on Israelis or victims of crime. His tolerance dries up very fast.


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    #453
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Unnamed eyewitnesses, which are worthless as they can easily be fabricated.
    Pathetic.


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    #454
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    I assumed based on the fact that normal people don't destroy property, harass families, and assault people. That is the work of criminals.
    You can dress it up all you like you assumed based on your own prejudices.

    Prejudice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PrejudiceÖversätt den här sidan
    Prejudice is prejudgment, or forming an opinion before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case.


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    #455
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    You can dress it up all you like you assumed based on your own prejudices.

    Prejudice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PrejudiceÖversätt den här sidan
    Prejudice is prejudgment, or forming an opinion before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case.


    na·ive or na·ïve (nī-ēv′, nä-) also na·if or na·ïf (nī-ēf′, nä-)
    adj.
    1. Lacking worldly experience and understanding, especially:
    a. Simple and guileless; artless: a child with a naive charm.
    b. Unsuspecting or credulous: "Students, often bright but naive, bet—and lose—substantial sums of money on sporting events" (Tim Layden).


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    #456
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    You can dress it up all you like you assumed based on your own prejudices.

    Prejudice is prejudgment, or forming an opinion before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case.
    Only someone as comically wrong-headed as yourself would fail to notice that the exact same definition applies to the exculpatory horsesh!t you have been smearing on this forum, blaming the Gardai and everyone else except the thugs involved.


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    #457
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    na·ive or na·ïve (nī-ēv′, nä-) also na·if or na·ïf (nī-ēf′, nä-)
    adj.
    1. Lacking worldly experience and understanding, especially:
    a. Simple and guileless; artless: a child with a naive charm.
    b. Unsuspecting or credulous: "Students, often bright but naive, bet—and lose—substantial sums of money on sporting events" (Tim Layden).

    I'd be fairly sure he is not naive. Nobody is that naive. He's deliberately grasping at the most ridiculous straws to try and retain some semblance of victory in the discussion. Like the rest of us, he knows well what happened.


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    #458
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    Pathetic.
    Not so interested in your personal review but on the the truth or the falsehood of the statement.

    "unnamed sources can easily be fabricated". This is self-evidently true.


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    #459
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Not so interested in your personal review but on the the truth or the falsehood of the statement.

    "unnamed sources can easily be fabricated". This is self-evidently true.
    Pathetic.


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    #460
    digzy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭digzy


    One less knacker to claim the dole and fill the country with his offspring. Good riddance, pity the rest of the gang didn't befall a similar fate.

    I feel sorry for the cop here. There's a gsoc investigation going on here and his character impugned for him lying in a bed in his own house when he was interrupted by the scum.

    I've yet to see any irish person with a neck tattoo who wasn't a complete Skobie too.


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    #461
    thirdtime
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭thirdtime


    digzy wrote: »

    I've yet to see any irish person with a neck tattoo who wasn't a complete Skobie too.


    haha!! So true!

    do knackers not realise the impact a neck tattoo has on their employment prospects?


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    #462
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    Okay Brown Bomber, I give up.

    There was 2 possibilities:
    1. They were just scumbags with previous criminal histories out causing trouble.
    2. There is giant conspiracy to frame them including the Gardai, Ambulance Service, Coast Guard, every news paper in the country, and people on this forum.

    You're right, it has to be number 2.

    There are only two possibilities if you you reduce a virtual infinite number of possibilities into binary form for no actual purpose. But let's be honest here based on your own admitted prejudices there is only and only ever has been one possibility - Dirty Harry/Batman/Robocop fearlessly challenges the outsiders consisting of sub-human vermin who are causing him and his neighbours some bother, gets a crack of a bottle for his efforts and the criminals flee, one of them dies in some kind of freak accident and this makes you happy when young people die whose lifestyle you disaprove of.

    Here is another "possibilities". The four(ish) lads are drinking beer from bottles passing through the policemans neighbourhood on their way to/from somewhere. They decide that it would be entertaining to smash their bottles off walls, on the ground or whatever when they've drank them. This wakes up the local Sheriff and his blood is boiling. By the time he gets outside they have left - roughly 3 minutes walk away apparently.

    https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Seapark,+Dungarvan,+Co.+Waterford,+Ireland/Clonea+Rd,+Dungarvan,+Co.+Waterford,+Ireland/@52.0948239,-7.6006714,18z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x4843183ff0c633c1:0x452babf9bd263792!2m2!1d-7.597973!2d52.0946342!1m5!1m1!1s0x4843183df82b03c7:0xac0ae713142d89e0!2m2!1d-7.6012241!2d52.0952161!3e2

    He runs after them not as an objective officer but as a man with revenge on his mind. He catches them and initiates a confrontation and then gets hit with a bottle. The youths flee.

    Not saying the above is what happened, I don't know what happened, and neither do you.


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    #463
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Brown Bomber wrote: »





    He runs after them not as an objective officer but as a man with revenge on his mind. He catches them and initiates a confrontation and then gets hit with a bottle. The youths flee.

    Initiate: cause (a process or action) to begin.


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    The four(ish) lads are drinking beer from bottles passing through the policemans neighbourhood on their way to/from somewhere. They decide that it would be entertaining to smash their bottles off walls, on the ground or whatever when they've drank them.


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    #464
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    He runs after them not as an objective officer but as a man with revenge on his mind. He catches them and initiates a confrontation and then gets hit with a bottle. The youths flee.

    Not saying the above is what happened, I don't know what happened, and neither do you.
    Yes, and maybe Hitler was framed by the Jews, who staged a massive conspiracy to make it look like he persecuted them, set up 'concentration camps' where they lived as anorexics waiting for the Allies to find them, and forcing the unfortunate innocent Hitler to commit suicide to avoid the fit-up they had lined up for him.

    Not saying the above is what happened, I don't know what happened, and neither do you.


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    #465
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    mikom wrote: »
    Initiate: cause (a process or action) to begin.
    It is a possibility that he did initiate the second or escalated phase and was the aggressor. If he chased them down and tackled them aggressively without any way of proving he was a a genuine police officer then anyone would be within their rights to resort to violence to defend themselves.


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    #466
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    It is a possibility that he did initiate the second or escalated phase and was the aggressor. If he chased them down and tackled them aggressively without any way of proving he was a a genuine police officer then anyone would be within their rights to resort to violence to defend themselves.
    This is totally plausible, once you can accept the idea of the Garda attacking them with the back of his head facing them.

    I'm sure you can accept that idea, but you'll excuse those of us with a brain for not doing so.


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    #467
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    It is a possibility that he did initiate the second or escalated phase and was the aggressor.

    Initiate and second phase don't mesh........... sorry.


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    If he chased them down and tackled them aggressively without any way of proving he was a a genuine police officer then anyone would be within their rights to resort to violence to defend themselves.

    The violence of a bottle broken across his head which required numerous staples.
    Pure self defence, boss.
    .
    .


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    #468
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    This is totally plausible, once you can accept the idea of the Garda attacking them with the back of his head facing them.

    I'm sure you can accept that idea, but you'll excuse those of us with a brain for not doing so.
    Perhaps you should try and use this brain of yours a little better if you think it's possible for one unarmed man to restrain 4 men with bottles without exposing the back of his head. He isn't Bruce Lee. His actions, though when taken at face value though noble were irrational and foolish, he could have been the one who was killed.

    If his motivation was not a personal revenge but apprehending the suspects for the sake of law and order the rational thing for him to do would have been to call into the station and follow them at a distance, not hard when they are "shouting and screaming" until on-duty police arrive. The station is only 5 minutes away and that is without the sirens. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Dungarvan+Garda+Station,+Rice%27s+St,+Dungarvan,+Co.+Waterford,+Ireland/Clonea+Rd,+Dungarvan,+Co.+Waterford,+Ireland/@52.0914062,-7.6217233,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x48431789f1fdb45b:0xe01612a88aa410c0!2m2!1d-7.6244795!2d52.0876893!1m5!1m1!1s0x4843183df82b03c7:0xac0ae713142d89e0!2m2!1d-7.6012241!2d52.0952161!3e0


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    #469
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Perhaps you should try and use this brain of yours a little better if you think it's possible for one unarmed man to restrain 4 men with bottles without exposing the back of his head. He isn't Bruce Lee. His actions, though when taken at face value though noble were irrational and foolish, he could have been the one who was killed.

    If his motivation was not a personal revenge but apprehending the suspects for the sake of law and order the rational thing for him to do would have been to call into the station and follow them at a distance, not hard when they are "shouting and screaming" until on-duty police arrive. The station is only 5 minutes away and that is without the sirens.
    So you think attacking someone from behind with a deadly weapon is 'self-defence'?

    Because you were selling it as self-defence a minute ago in one of your hilarious rationalisations.


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    #470
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    mikom wrote: »
    Initiate and second phase don't mesh........... sorry.





    The violence of a bottle broken across his head which required numerous staples.
    Pure self defence, boss.
    .
    .

    You could attack me, swing a baseball bat and miss and I could then punch you and break your nose. You being hospitalised is not any indication that I didn't act in self-defense.


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    #471
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    You could attack me, swing a baseball bat and miss and I could then punch you and break your nose. You being hospitalised is not any indication that I didn't act in self-defense.
    So you are standing by the principle that the Garda could have attacked these four thugs backwards and received a defensive blow from a bottle?


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    #472
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    So you are standing by the principle that the Garda could have attacked these four thugs backwards and received a defensive blow from a bottle?
    No, that is your 100th strawman of the day. There are a multitude of events which could have lead to the guard being the attacker and still getting hit in the back of the head.

    Also, the injury is more consistent with self-defense than an assault with intention to cause maximum harm,. They could have continued to batter him after they took him out with the bottle - they didn't - or at least there is no indication of yhis so far .
    Like I said, I don't know what happened in this time. If you do, and can support it with actual solid and verifiable evidence, then share it.


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    #473
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    No, that is your 100th strawman of the day. There are a multitude of events which could have lead to the guard being the attacker and still getting hit in the back of the head.
    Can you outline how hitting someone who is FACING AWAY FROM YOU in the head with a weapon constitutes 'self-defence'?

    (we'll leave aside that it requires us to believe that a single middle-aged professional man was assaulting a gang of young thugs)


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    #474
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    You could attack me, swing a baseball bat and miss and I could then punch you and break your nose. You being hospitalised is not any indication that I didn't act in self-defense.

    No baseball bat in this situation.

    Only a knacker wields a bottle.
    Who wielded the bottle again?
    .
    .


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    #475
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    digzy wrote: »
    One less knacker to claim the dole and fill the country with his offspring. Good riddance, pity the rest of the gang didn't befall a similar fate.

    I feel sorry for the cop here. There's a gsoc investigation going on here and his character impugned for him lying in a bed in his own house when he was interrupted by the scum.

    I've yet to see any irish person with a neck tattoo who wasn't a complete Skobie too.
    This is utterly reprehensible. This man, whom you have never met and has never harmed you in any has just lost his teenage son, only yesterday, in a tragic accident and you see fit to mock his physical appearance.


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    #476
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    mikom wrote: »
    No baseball bat in this situation.

    Only a knacker wields a bottle.
    Who wielded the bottle again?
    .
    .
    What is the difference between wielding a bottle and a police baton?

    It is logical to assume that they had bottles because they were drinking from them or planned to drink from them. In any case you have completely missed the point.


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    #477
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    This is utterly reprehensible. This man, whom you have never met and has never harmed you in any has just lost his teenage son, only yesterday, in a tragic accident and you see fit to mock his physical appearance.
    Basic human right: free speech. I thought you were in favour of human rights? Or only in favour of the right of thugs to trash an estate and get away without being challenged?

    Still waiting for your explanation of how attacking someone who is facing away from you with a bottle constitutes self defence.


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    #478
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    Can you outline how hitting someone who is FACING AWAY FROM YOU in the head with a weapon constitutes 'self-defence'?

    (we'll leave aside that it requires us to believe that a single middle-aged professional man was assaulting a gang of young thugs)

    OK. Person X is walking east drink a bottle of lager. Person Y has been trailing him from the West, catches him and grabs him from behind with both arms around his throat. Person Y swings his extended arm (with bottle) in a looping motion over his head and strikes person Y in the back of the head to defend himself.


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    #479
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    What is the difference between wielding a bottle and a police baton?t.

    One was smashed across a humans head and required stapling on the night in question.
    Work it out.



    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    It is logical to assume that they had bottles because they were drinking from them or planned to drink from them.

    Surprised they had any left what with the ones that were smashed.


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    #480
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    OK. Person X is walking east drink a bottle of lager. Person Y has been trailing him from the West, catches him and grabs him from behind with both arms around his throat. Person Y swings his extended arm (with bottle) in a looping motion over his head and strikes person Y in the back of the head to defend himself.
    I'm going to sit that possibility right beside the Hitler/anorexic Jew argument, and of course the possibility that the Garda ran backwards at the group flailing his arms behind him. Unless the guy has two elbows in his arm, that bottle is going to hit the Garda on the TOP of the head. Do we know if he has two elbows?


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    #481
    Dermot Illogical
    Registered Users Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Dermot Illogical


    OK. Person X is walking east drink a bottle of lager. Person Y has been trailing him from the West, catches him and grabs him from behind with both arms around his throat. Person Y swings his extended arm (with bottle) in a looping motion over his head and strikes person Y in the back of the head to defend himself.
    RecordStraight wrote: »
    I'm going to sit that possibility right beside the Hitler/anorexic Jew argument, and of course the possibility that the Garda ran backwards at the group flailing his arms behind him. Unless the guy has two elbows in his arm, that bottle is going to hit the Garda on the TOP of the head. Do we know if he has two elbows?

    Everything's under control lads, forensics have arrived.


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