Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

Ernest Oreo · 09-04-2014 10:03AM

kryogen wrote: »

The idea that you consider Klopp sending out his team to purposefully not even attempt to score for 20 minutes is funny to me though, wouldnt bother bringing up Blanc, as usual with him he shat the bag and that will be what kills his managerial career, too negative.

Oh yeah, and predicting United to go out when Bayern are in and around 1/9 to qualify is not exactly sage like vision

disregarding the earlier section of your post, i'm sure you'll not be offended.
you seem to have taken my take on the game tonight a little too literally.
scoring within the first 20 mins is completely relevant only to the upcoming tie tonight. it is based on consideration of both teams, their typical playing style, home advantage, managerial capability and other relevant factors.

there is no golden rule that you shouldnt score within the first 20 mins as you'll then simply go on to lose. that would be the assertion of a simpleton.

yours etc..

kryogen · 09-04-2014 10:05AM

It is based on talking through your hoop to be perfectly honest with you.

Ernest Oreo · 09-04-2014 10:06AM

kryogen wrote: »

It is based on talking through your hoop to be perfectly honest with you.

thank you for that input.

Lucas Hood · 09-04-2014 10:08AM

Ignore function really useful on here recently.

Maximus Alexander · 09-04-2014 10:09AM

kryogen wrote: »

Isnt the stat along the lines of, havent lost a game when taken the lead this season?

Also haven't lost a match in 2014 where Nani was an unused substitute. #talisman #inspirational

jane82 · 09-04-2014 10:12AM

We need a goal. Bayarn will have to commit more forward if we get one early. We could pick them off then in a perfect world.
The earlier the goal the better it means we can shut up shop and not get picked off on the counter.
This time in the game where united need goals is the most dangerous, robben and ribery racing forward while evra or jones/smalling/raphael race back is the part that doesnt fill me with confidence. It also changes the game from us needing one goal to draw to us winning if we score another and draw.
A goal from tip off would be very welcome here.

kryogen · 09-04-2014 10:12AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Also haven't lost a match in 2014 where Nani was an unused substitute. #talisman #inspirational

Makes a fine cheerleader

MagicIRL · 09-04-2014 10:13AM

We also haven't lost a match when fan-bought aircraft have flown across the stadium in the entire history of the club!

Maximus Alexander · 09-04-2014 10:16AM

MagicIRL wrote: »

We also haven't lost a match when fan-bought aircraft have flown across the stadium in the entire history of the club!

Right so, Nani on the bench tonight, plane overhead, early goal - job done.

Backstreet Moyes · 09-04-2014 10:20AM

Anybody backing United at 11/1 tonight. Might wait and hope we score in the first 20 mins might get 25/1 then.

Ernest Oreo · 09-04-2014 10:21AM

oh how i'll enjoy logging in tomorrow morning..

Julez · 09-04-2014 10:25AM

Just jumping a little to Ernest Oreo defence here. Obviously, scoring early for us would be good, I would want us to score as early and as often as we can tonight. But to suggest he's talking complete nonsense is also foolish, if you think scoring an early goal won't have any effect whatsoever psychologically, then you are mad. Now, it could effect positively as well as negatively, how many times have we seen us score then try and shut up shop and end up throwing it away. I don't necessarily agree with what he's saying, but it’s not complete nonsense, psychology clearly plays a big part.

Maximus Alexander · 09-04-2014 10:27AM

Julez wrote: »

Just jumping a little to Ernest Oreo defence here. Obviously, scoring early for us would be good, I would want us to score as early and as often as we can tonight. But to suggest he's talking complete nonsense is also foolish, if you think scoring an early goal won't have any effect whatsoever psychologically, then you are mad. Now, it could effect positively as well as negatively, how many times have we seen us score then try and shut up shop and end up throwing it away. I don't necessarily agree with what he's saying, but it’s not complete nonsense, psychology clearly plays a big part.

I don't think anyone is disputing that goals have an effect on the game, but to suggest that it's ever a bad thing to score is nonsense.

Julez · 09-04-2014 10:34AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I don't think anyone is disputing that goals have an effect on the game, but to suggest that it's ever a bad thing to score is nonsense.

But I think everyone is taking him too literally, he said it might not suit United, as opposed to holding a draw and scoring later on in the game, rather than not scoring at all. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he's just mental. :pac:

Backstreet Moyes · 09-04-2014 10:34AM

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

oh how i'll enjoy logging in tomorrow morning..

You talked last week about how you hope Bayern humiliate us. Now you will enjoy logging on to gloat tomorrow if we score early and lose. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how your a United fan.

NTMK · 09-04-2014 10:35AM

If someone offered us the chance to cancel out the away goal and be a goal up on agg after 20mins id tear their hand off

Ernest Oreo · 09-04-2014 10:37AM

NTMK wrote: »

If someone offered us the chance to cancel out the away goal and be a goal up on agg after 20mins id tear their hand off

good for you.
say we do score from the tip off.
how do you expect the game to evolve over the remaining 89 mins?

do you think we'll score again in the first tens mins and effectively kill the game?

lordgoat · 09-04-2014 10:41AM

Macca07 wrote: »

TBF, Fellaini did destroy most midfields in the EPL last season. And the majority of supporters on here were crying out to sign him, until we signed him.

He's having a rough patch, hasn't been an easy season for any player, next season will be a different story with him.

I don't think the majority of supporters were crying out for him. Definitely didn't want him as the only CM coming in.

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

ok.
watch the game unfold this evening.
i can guarantee you that should a goal be scored within the first 20 mins of the tie tonight, regardless of what team scores it, you will see United bowing out of the CL for 2013/14.
a strong basis for this is a critical differentiator between moyes and pep.

tactical nous is crucial at this point of the competition.
Klopp nearly overturned a headless RM last night.
Larry White looked clueless for most of his visit to the Bridge.

So what happened if we scored in the 21st minute? Would that be better that the 19th?

Scoring early will not change our game plan at all, Bayern scoring early is a different story. An early goal for us, just puts more pressure on Bayern, who have to score to put us out without extra time.

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

oh how i'll enjoy logging in tomorrow morning..

I hate this kind of ****e. Look at Jimmy big balls ready to come in and tell everyone how right he is. Love posters like this. I fully expect you to crawl back under you're rock for a few weeks if you're proven incorrect.

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I don't think anyone is disputing that goals have an effect on the game, but to suggest that it's ever a bad thing to score is nonsense.

+1 on this.

bren2001 · 09-04-2014 10:41AM

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

good for you.
say we do score from the tip off.
how do you expect the game to evolve over the remaining 89 mins?

do you think we'll score again in the first tens mins and effectively kill the game?

So by this logic, us beating Munich in OT would have been a terrible result? We could go 2-0 up and the game would not be killed off.

The earlier we score, the more pressure that puts on Munich. Utd want them to pour forward exposing their back four and high line. It is imperative we score first and as early as possible. Our game plan will be the same as last week, counter.

Ernest Oreo · 09-04-2014 10:41AM

Nuts102 wrote: »

You talked last week about how you hope Bayern humiliate us. Now you will enjoy logging on to gloat tomorrow if we score early and lose. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how your a United fan.

i offered an opinion as regards what i feel represents united's best chance of progressing. and have been ridiculed since doing that. fine no problems.
everyone is entitled to their opinion i guess.

for the record, my principle point is that the longer the game stays at 0-0 the chances of us progressing increase
we do not have a team, nor manager, to visit Bayern and defeat them 2/3 nil
we do not have a team, nor manager, to visit Bayern and score in the first 20 mins and effectively control the game from that point onwards
get to HT at 0-0 and we're in with a good chance of progressing

NTMK · 09-04-2014 10:43AM

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

good for you.
say we do score from the tip off.
how do you expect the game to evolve over the remaining 89 mins?

do you think we'll score again in the first tens mins and effectively kill the game?

same as last week
bayern will have ~70% of the ball
we sit infront of our box like last week
they'll push higher up the field giving us oppertuinities to get in behind them should they not score

How do you think the score being 0-0 after 50-60 mins with a 60-70% possesion team holding the ball is going to work out when they can sit back and pass around their own half is going to fair for united?

MagicIRL · 09-04-2014 10:44AM

I think Oreo's point is that if United score first and try to hold Munich at 1-0 for 80mins then we'll conceed and lose. His point is that if we have 45mins to endure 1-0 lead as opposed to 90mins we've a better chance of progressing.

I disagree, but I think that's what he meant.

lordgoat · 09-04-2014 10:45AM

NTMK wrote: »

same as last week
bayern will have ~70% of the ball
we sit infront of our box like last week
they'll push higher up the field giving us oppertuinities to get in behind them should they not score

How do you think the score being 0-0 after 50-60 mins with a 60-70% possesion team holding the ball is going to work out when they can sit back and pass around their own half is going to fair for united?

Put more simply. As a united fan what score after 20mins gone would you like best.

0-0
0-1

Hmmmm i'm really unsure about this. One score puts us out of the competition and one put us in the semi's with neary a quarter of the game played...

markcahill1985 · 09-04-2014 10:46AM

Cant believe there ia an actual argument going on about when it would be good to score. Realistically we are only going to get 3-4 good goalscoring oportunities In my opinion. I would bite your hand off for an early goal to cancel out their away goal. Would put them under presssure and add doubts in their mind. Cant believe it is even beeing argued.

bangkok · 09-04-2014 10:46AM

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

good for you.
say we do score from the tip off.
how do you expect the game to evolve over the remaining 89 mins?

do you think we'll score again in the first tens mins and effectively kill the game?

if we score straight from tip off it would be the perfect start. would mean Bayern would have to score, we would sit deep and hit them on the counter attack with welbeck and Valencia and hopefully score another goal. Bayern would need 3 at that stage.

lordgoat · 09-04-2014 10:47AM

MagicIRL wrote: »

I think Oreo's point is that if United score first and try to hold Munich at 1-0 for 80mins then we'll conceed and lose. His point is that if we have 45mins to endure 1-0 lead as opposed to 90mins we've a better chance of progressing.

I disagree, but I think that's what he meant.

That's not what was said and even if it was I'd disagree. I don't think Bayern will play any different at 0-0 or being 1 down. They will have just as much possession/attacks. Anyone that fails to see that...

keeponhurling · 09-04-2014 10:50AM

markcahill1985 wrote: »

Cant believe there ia an actual argument going on about when it would be good to score. Realistically we are only going to get 3-4 good goalscoring oportunities In my opinion. I would bite your hand off for an early goal to cancel out their away goal. Would put them under presssure and add doubts in their mind. Cant believe it is even beeing argued.

Realistically, we know that Bayern will control midfield due to both their possession style and also having better players in the middle. Don't think anyone would disagree with this.

So I would expect United to get 1-2 good chances in the game form quick breaks that might lead to corners, frees etc..

Bayern will surely get 5+ decent scoring chances. And this assumes our back 4 plays reasonably well. Obviously they'll get more chances in that case.

Midfield really is that important.

So the only way united can win is if they take their chances, and either Bayern are off-target or DDG plays a blinder.

For all that to happen seems very unlikely.

kryogen · 09-04-2014 10:51AM

Bayern will be scoring either way, unless its done on penalties the minimum United need to score "imo" will be 2 goals, the earlier we get a goal the better, plainly obvious.

Controlling the game wont be happening, Bayern will be dominating either way.

An early goal will have no effect on either teams game plan, an early goal for United that is, Bayern will look to control the game and break us down, United will look to be tight, compact and hope to ping the ball to Danny and try catch Bayern on the break.

We need goals, the earlier the better, rattle them and who knows.

United have a slim chance of progressing, the longer it stays at 0-0 does not give United more of an advantage since the HAVE TO SCORE to go through, Bayern do not, Bayern can just keep the ball if they choose to, then when United eventually break forward and take risks they can pick us off.

Hopefully Bayern will stay true to form, push up, use a high line, be arrogant and leave 3 men forward when defending corners, try to score goals. Its the only way we are gonna get through anyway

intellectual dosser · 09-04-2014 10:51AM

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

i offered an opinion as regards what i feel represents united's best chance of progressing. and have been ridiculed since doing that. fine no problems.
everyone is entitled to their opinion i guess.

for the record, my principle point is that the longer the game stays at 0-0 the chances of us progressing increase
we do not have a team, nor manager, to visit Bayern and defeat them 2/3 nil
we do not have a team, nor manager, to visit Bayern and score in the first 20 mins and effectively control the game from that point onwards
get to HT at 0-0 and we're in with a good chance of progressing

Get to HT at 0-0 and we're still losing the tie. You think we can just flick a switch and score a second half goal against Bayern Munich in The Allianz arena? We need a plan thats conservative but allows for attack at all times in the game. I dont think the game plan will change much between the 1st minute and the 90th.

Maximus Alexander · 09-04-2014 10:54AM

For some reason I quite fancy United to score tonight and I'd definitely prefer that goal to come when the scores are level, rather than when chasing the game.

United players get a confidence boost, know Bayern can be got at. Bayern now know they need two goals to win the tie without a lottery. I don't see a down side.

Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

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