When might Eircom to enable vectoring on their eFibre/VDSL service?

fat-tony · 23-03-2014 10:37PM

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Download one of those 1.3GB files from HEAnet and take a screenshot: http://ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/linuxmint.com/testing/

On existing 70Mb profile it took me 2 mins 35 secs (about 7.9MB per sec.)

tdonegan1990 · 23-03-2014 11:53PM

Anyone know how long the vector update takes?

red_bairn · 24-03-2014 09:47AM

Oh the days when I was in Korea able to download a Steam game at 12MB/s.

Praetorian · 24-03-2014 12:25PM

red_bairn wrote: »

Oh the days when I was in Korea able to download a Steam game at 12MB/s.

Well around 10MB/s a second on VDSL isn't bad

Congrats Vico1612 on being the first! I am hopeful I'll also get the full 100m/bit as my line attenuation is very similar to yours.

I am still a little disappointed that they are not boosting the upload rates to 25,30, 40 m/bits. That would have been sweet!

red_bairn · 24-03-2014 02:18PM

Praetorian wrote: »

Well around 10MB/s a second on VDSL isn't bad

Congrats Vico1612 on being the first! I am hopeful I'll also get the full 100m/bit as my line attenuation is very similar to yours.

I am still a little disappointed that they are not boosting the upload rates to 25,30, 40 m/bits. That would have been sweet!

Early days

GIMickey · 25-03-2014 04:09PM

This is my old settings from when i first got my internet.

Then i just checked the there now and my attenuation nearly doubled.

modem%2014.PNG

I have the most up to date firmware installed on this fritzs box modem, add the provider is digiweb.

One thing i do see is G.Vector and its set to off, would this effect me when vectoring is turned on, because i cant find where on the modem to turn this on.

If you cant see the image, right click and open in a new tab.

PeadarB · 25-03-2014 04:15PM

It looks like there was a software update in Letterkenny last night. My SNR and attainable net rate data are way up. Must keep an eye on this as the day progresses.

GIMickey · 25-03-2014 04:42PM

PeadarB what speeds are u getting urself. Everyone I no including those close to the cabinets are getting 50Mb in letterkenny. Are you getting more than this.

Also my attenuation is like that now for maybe 2 months.

ED E · 25-03-2014 04:57PM

FYI as it seems there is some confusion here, your attenuation should not change. It may read slightly different but for the most part it is a product of the length of your line and that is fixed.

Its the Attains and SNR that will change, these are the values to watch.

GIMickey · 25-03-2014 05:06PM

ED E wrote: »

FYI as it seems there is some confusion here, your attenuation should not change. It may read slightly different but for the most part it is a product of the length of your line and that is fixed.

Its the Attains and SNR that will change, these are the values to watch.

I know this. But in my 2 screen shots one show an attenuation of 11 and the other shows 20. That's what I can't get my head around

KeRbDoG · 25-03-2014 05:21PM

ED E wrote: »

FYI as it seems there is some confusion here, your attenuation should not change. It may read slightly different but for the most part it is a product of the length of your line and that is fixed.

Its the Attains and SNR that will change, these are the values to watch.

Wonder if you could look at the following so, the general consensus is that vectoring hasn't been enabled yet - note, the phone line to cab is quite a distance. I was first on a 7/1 profile, now a 25/7 (upload sync'd to 4~ due to distance I take it) and in the middle a 30/8 (again, sync'd to lower upload)

       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:      1.083 Mbps        7.237 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:      1.023 Mbps        7.167 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:       20.7 dB           30.6 dB
            Actual Delay:          4 ms              8 ms
          Transmit Power:        4.6 dBm           7.9 dBm
           Receive Power:       -8.5 dBm         -23.5 dBm
              Actual INP:        2.0 symbols       3.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:       13.2 dB           31.4 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:      4.632 Mbps       36.180 Mbps

       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:      4.152 Mbps       25.670 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:      4.124 Mbps       25.595 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        6.3 dB           14.3 dB
            Actual Delay:          8 ms              8 ms
          Transmit Power:        7.1 dBm          14.0 dBm
           Receive Power:       -8.5 dBm         -17.7 dBm
              Actual INP:        2.0 symbols       3.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:       15.8 dB           31.8 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:      4.333 Mbps       41.876 Mbps

       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:      4.124 Mbps       30.795 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:      4.096 Mbps       30.720 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        5.8 dB            7.4 dB
            Actual Delay:          8 ms              8 ms
          Transmit Power:        7.2 dBm          14.1 dBm
           Receive Power:       -8.8 dBm         -17.8 dBm
              Actual INP:        2.0 symbols       3.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:       16.1 dB           32.0 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:      4.239 Mbps       39.512 Mbps

Download tests from HEAnet seems still restricted to a 8Mbps down line and 1Mbps up connection no matter what profile my modem is set to and syncs to.
When I log into the modem, I note no packet drops for sending or receiving packets on the VSDL connection. I see a large number of FEC but that shouldn't be an issue right?

PeadarB · 25-03-2014 05:29PM

GIMickey wrote: »

PeadarB what speeds are u getting urself. Everyone I no including those close to the cabinets are getting 50Mb in letterkenny. Are you getting more than this.

Also my attenuation is like that now for maybe 2 months.

The latest from the configurator. I'm still on 60/20 but might be able to change that with the help of the eircom techies who have proven invaluable with their help over the last couple of days. The attenuation is relatively ok. SNR has gone down with the new attainables, but should be ok. This should give 100/20 or as near as doesn't matter.

============================================================================
Status at 4pm 25/03/2014
============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 0 hour: 21 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 20.541 Mbps 102.571 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 20.479 Mbps 102.398 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 8.9 dB 8.3 dB
Actual Delay: 4 ms 5 ms
Transmit Power: -14.1 dBm 12.0 dBm
Receive Power: -24.7 dBm -3.4 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 2.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 10.7 dB 15.4 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 28.089 Mbps 124.036 Mbps
============================================================================

GIMickey · 25-03-2014 05:33PM

on a speedtest are you getting 100Mb???

PeadarB · 25-03-2014 05:37PM

GIMickey wrote: »

on a speedtest are you getting 100Mb???

I'm still on the 60/20 profile but will enquire if this can be upped to 100/20 or 90/20. At the minute -

Manc Red · 25-03-2014 05:44PM

So these vectoring speeds are the maximum VDSL speeds can go? There's nothing faster after that?

swoofer · 25-03-2014 05:50PM

I wish all these posters would insert one VITAL piece of information, DISTANCE FROM THE VDSL cabinet.

Its all very well showing 100mb but if you are on top of VDSL cabinet then we are not surprised.

PeadarB · 25-03-2014 05:50PM

Manc Red wrote: »

So these vectoring speeds are the maximum VDSL speeds can go? There's nothing faster after that?

I suspect that I'm still on the stable profile for evision. Once the profile is updated the RX rate should improve. I'm 190m from the cab.

ED E · 25-03-2014 05:55PM

KeRbDoG wrote: »

Wonder if you could look at the following so, the general consensus is that vectoring hasn't been enabled yet - note, the phone line to cab is quite a distance. I was first on a 7/1 profile, now a 25/7 (upload sync'd to 4~ due to distance I take it) and in the middle a 30/8 (again, sync'd to lower upload)

       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:      1.083 Mbps        7.237 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:      1.023 Mbps        7.167 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:       20.7 dB           30.6 dB
            Actual Delay:          4 ms              8 ms
          Transmit Power:        4.6 dBm           7.9 dBm
           Receive Power:       -8.5 dBm         -23.5 dBm
              Actual INP:        2.0 symbols       3.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:       13.2 dB           [B]31.4 dB[/B]
Attainable Net Data Rate:      4.632 Mbps       36.180 Mbps

       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:      4.152 Mbps       25.670 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:      4.124 Mbps       25.595 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        6.3 dB           14.3 dB
            Actual Delay:          8 ms              8 ms
          Transmit Power:        7.1 dBm          14.0 dBm
           Receive Power:       -8.5 dBm         -17.7 dBm
              Actual INP:        2.0 symbols       3.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:       15.8 dB          [B] 31.8 dB[/B]
Attainable Net Data Rate:      4.333 Mbps       41.876 Mbps

       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:      4.124 Mbps       30.795 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:      4.096 Mbps       30.720 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        5.8 dB            7.4 dB
            Actual Delay:          8 ms              8 ms
          Transmit Power:        7.2 dBm          14.1 dBm
           Receive Power:       -8.8 dBm         -17.8 dBm
              Actual INP:        2.0 symbols       3.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:       16.1 dB           [B]32.0 dB[/B]
Attainable Net Data Rate:      4.239 Mbps       39.512 Mbps

Download tests from HEAnet seems still restricted to a 8Mbps down line and 1Mbps up connection no matter what profile my modem is set to and syncs to.
When I log into the modem, I note no packet drops for sending or receiving packets on the VSDL connection. I see a large number of FEC but that shouldn't be an issue right?

Apologies, I skipped a word, "Downstream".

Upstream attenuation will vary depending on the modem and its own estimations, also the tones its using I think.

You're a fair bit away from the cab there. Still a lot more up than you previously had I'm guessing.

Your upstream is leveling off as thats the best the modem can push. 5.8 dB is pretty weak. Thats why you're seeing a high level of FEC errors. As long as the throughput doesnt cráp out or you start getting loss of upstream link counts then you're fine.

ED E · 25-03-2014 06:00PM

Manc Red wrote: »

So these vectoring speeds are the maximum VDSL speeds can go? There's nothing faster after that?

Yeah, VDSL is getting the best throughput through copper PSTN cabling that is currently possible (at the distances its at).

Vectoring is a software based error correction system so theoretically if somebody came up with a better algorithm and it could be implemented in firmware on both modems and VDSL DSLAMS(cabs) then there might be room for further improvements, but I wouldnt be holding your breath.

See the ESB thread for info on Gfast and FTTH that might start to replace VDSL soon(5yrs ish soon).

jimmad · 25-03-2014 06:00PM

PeadarB wrote: »

I suspect that I'm still on the stable profile for evision. Once the profile is updated the RX rate should improve. I'm 190m from the cab.

What cabinet in letterkenny are you on, no vectoring enabled on my one as yet according to stats, im with digiweb, getting 60/20

KeRbDoG · 25-03-2014 06:11PM

ED E wrote: »

Apologies, I skipped a word, "Downstream".

Upstream attenuation will vary depending on the modem and its own estimations, also the tones its using I think.

You're a fair bit away from the cab there. Still a lot more up than you previously had I'm guessing.

Your upstream is leveling off as thats the best the modem can push. 5.8 dB is pretty weak. Thats why you're seeing a high level of FEC errors. As long as the throughput doesnt cráp out or you start getting loss of upstream link counts then you're fine.

Throughput is still that of a 7Mbps down even though the modem is sync'd at the higher speed/profile (both the 30 down and 25 down). I'm guessing this is a capacity issues or a funky config issue maybe on the Eircom side?

When testing;
- wired connection
- HEAnet Ubuntu mirror, wget a large iso image

PeadarB · 25-03-2014 06:24PM

jimmad wrote: »

What cabinet in letterkenny are you on, no vectoring enabled on my one as yet according to stats, im with digiweb, getting 60/20

I'm with eircom and connected to LKY01_005 at Binnion Avenue.

AlanS181824 · 25-03-2014 06:33PM

I wonder why the Upload isn't being increased? From the stats it seems well capable. I'd hate VDSL to end up like UPC with 200 download and 10 upload. A 40mb upload would seriously kill UPC imo.

SpaceTime · 25-03-2014 06:34PM

swoofer wrote: »

Am I right that for vectoring you need 4 wires connected and that will mean an engineers visit as my connection has only 2 wires connected. I could connect 2 more myself as 4 are used at the NTU end. This should have been done as part of the rollout it would have saved a second visit but then again that would be too simple.

Nope, that's pair bonding which isn't being offered at this stage. Effectively that's using two lines simultaneously.

Vectoring's just a software tweak at the cabinet and (possibly in some cases) the modem too. It cancels out noise on the line.

It's all done remotely there's no need for an engineer visit to your house or to the cabinet.

jimmad · 25-03-2014 06:37PM

PeadarB wrote: »

I'm with eircom and connected to LKY01_005 at Binnion Avenue.

Funnily enough, I believe that's the same cabinet Im connected to. very strange. I thought all lines on a cabinet had to be vector enabled at once. My router stats on the fritz box indicate that vectoring is turned off at the moment.

allen175 · 25-03-2014 06:37PM

AlanS181824 wrote: »

I wonder why the Upload isn't being increased? From the stats it seems well capable. I'd hate VDSL to end up like UPC with 200 download and 10 upload. A 40mb upload would seriously kill UPC imo.

It would be bad to go that way alright, but i would assume that if they could give more than 20mb up to the majority of the people on fibre they would. The only people getting 30mb up at the moment are eircom/magnets FTTH customers. But probably for the same reason UPC aren't offering a higher speed.

AlanS181824 · 25-03-2014 06:46PM

allen175 wrote: »

It would be bad to go that way alright, but i would assume that if they could give more than 20mb up to the majority of the people on fibre they would. The only people getting 30mb up at the moment are eircom/magnets FTTH customers. But probably for the same reason UPC aren't offering a higher speed.

I thought UPC's technology (DCOISS 3 IIRC) is only capable of 10Mb?

From the stats people are posting it really seems like they could get more, syncing at 20 getting 19, that sort of us.

Maybe Eircom will do a trial in future?

20Mb up is the main reason I'm considering choosing Fibre over UPC, but if they had 25, 30 or even 40, I really think they'd start reeling in the customers! :pac:

ED E · 25-03-2014 07:23PM

AlanS181824 wrote: »

I thought UPC's technology (DCOISS 3 IIRC) is only capable of 10Mb?

Nope, it can do higher. At least 40Mb if my memory serves me right. Its purely the way they're configuring their kit.

I'm guessing their peering agreements might cost em more if there were to be more outbound traffic, don't see why else they'd do it.

bk · 25-03-2014 08:41PM

Well some people are seeing 30mb/s attainable upload with vectoring enabled. That seems to be best case scaenario with those very close to the cabinet. I'd guess Eircom have opted to limit is to 20mb/s for the sake of stability and consistency.

The reality VDSL is similar to ADSL with the emphasis (more radio frequency and bandwidth) dedicated to download speed then upload.

I thought UPC's technology (DCOISS 3 IIRC) is only capable of 10Mb?

No DOCSIS 3.0 is capable of up to 40 to 50mb/s.

For instance in Canada you can get 200mb/s down and 30mb/s up from the cable company over DOCSIS 3.0

However there can be a whole bunch of reasons that limit UPC's ability to offer higher upload speeds. Hopefully they will resolve these issues in time.

Bog Standard User · 25-03-2014 08:56PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

For the Eircom modem, what firmware version should we be looking out for?

all f1000 modems have vectoring support enabled from 1.00(aaha.3)D0 onwards

current is 1.00(aaha.4)do which has vectoring enabled already.

more exchanges that now have vectoring enabled

Nenagh (NNH1)
Dun laoghaire (DLA1)

apparently eircom wholesale is the first ISP in europe to offer vectoring to its vdsl2+ customers

When might Eircom to enable vectoring on their eFibre/VDSL service?

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