When might Eircom to enable vectoring on their eFibre/VDSL service?

douglasman

syboit wrote: »

Is it the Attainable rate that has increased ? So now we have to wait for eircom to role out upgrades ?

Hi,

Yes. The official eFibre products are "up to 70Mb" at the moment. The following info is from an earlier post from SpaceTime in this thread, so new spec products are on the way.

Two new products on the Stable/Multicast table: 85 Mbit/s Down and 20Mbit/s up and a 80 Mbit/s down and 20 Mbit/s up package
Three new products on the 'high speed internet table: 100 Mbit/s down 20 Mbit/s up and 90 Mbit/s down and 20 mbit/s up and a 80Mbit/s down and 20 Mbit/s up profile.

dalta5billion

douglasman wrote: »

Vectoring has been turned on for some cabinets in Douglas, Cork today. It's being done on a cabinet by cabinet basis, nothing to do with exchange as the equipment in question is not in the exchange. For eircom customers, the latest F1000 firmware is 1.00(AAHA.4)D0 which has been in use for a while. Here are some mouth watering vectored enabled stats for you hot off the press!



============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 7 hours: 1 minute
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 20.549 Mbps 71.812 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 20.479 Mbps 71.672 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 10.3 dB 19.1 dB
Actual Delay: 4 ms 7 ms
Transmit Power: -12.1 dBm 12.0 dBm
Receive Power: -24.2 dBm 0.2 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 12.1 dB 11.8 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 31.524 Mbps 129.456 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 2.9 15.3 22.1 N/A 9.1 20.6 31.5
Signal Attenuation(dB): 2.9 14.7 21.1 N/A 7.0 20.4 31.4
SNR Margin(dB): 10.3 10.4 10.3 N/A 19.0 19.1 19.1
Transmit Power(dBm):-23.3 -14.5 -16.6 N/A 7.0 7.8 7.0
============================================================================

How far from the cabinet was that?

And does anyone know what each cab's backhaul capacity is?

AlanS181824

129Mb attainable? That's amazingly fast...

jca

AlanS181824 wrote: »

129Mb attainable? That's amazingly fast...

My attainable speed has risen to 87/36 but Eircom won't change me off my 50/20 profile. I rang today and he said they couldn't do it because the line would become unstable. My wired speed test results are 47/18 I'm about 550m from the cabinet. I know I shouldn't be complaining but I'm surprised the line would become unstable with a 20 meg increase.

AlanS181824

jca wrote: »

My attainable speed has risen to 87/36 but Eircom won't change me off my 50/20 profile. I rang today and he said they couldn't do it because the line would become unstable. My wired speed test results are 47/18 I'm about 550m from the cabinet. I know I shouldn't be complaining but I'm surprised the line would become unstable with a 20 meg increase.

Why can't they increase the 20Mb upload? Your line is well capable it seems.

KeRbDoG

Great news!

I'm 1500m from the cabinet and after the nice and very friendly Eircom broadband phone support lad reprofiled me after I called and asked nicely, I'm now on 30Mbps down and 4Mbps up. Not too bad Its meant to be the 30/8 high speed profile but I only get 4Mbps up. Not complaining

swoofer

are you sure you are 1500m from the cabinet?? I am with VF and about 800m from the vdsl cabinet and get 31m down and 8 up!!

can you post your line stats.

KeRbDoG

swoofer wrote: »

are you sure you are 1500m from the cabinet?? I am with VF and about 800m from the vdsl cabinet and get 31m down and 8 up!!

can you post your line stats.

While I know the route of my cable route to cab, you could be further than you think so it would effect your stats. Cable your cab isn't vector enabled yet?

Line stats in the VDSL Stats post. My line is new, was installed only 4 months ago

OneEightSeven

jca wrote: »

My attainable speed has risen to 87/36 but Eircom won't change me off my 50/20 profile. I rang today and he said they couldn't do it because the line would become unstable. My wired speed test results are 47/18 I'm about 550m from the cabinet. I know I shouldn't be complaining but I'm surprised the line would become unstable with a 20 meg increase.

Why shouldn't you be complaining?

Post your stats from your router's configuration page.

FaganJr

KeRbDoG wrote: »

While I know the route of my cable route to cab, you could be further than you think so it would effect your stats. Cable your cab isn't vector enabled yet?

Line stats in the VDSL Stats post. My line is new, was installed only 4 months ago

Where do you get the VDSL Stats log from?

I have logging turned on and its even e-mailing logs to me but no info?

Thanks

jca

AlanS181824 wrote: »

Why can't they increase the 20Mb upload? Your line is well capable it seems.

============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 14 days: 1 hour: 45 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 20.549 Mbps 51.280 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 20.479 Mbps 51.197 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 11.2 dB 14.0 dB
Actual Delay: 4 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: 1.1 dBm 12.0 dBm
Receive Power: -18.0 dBm -4.1 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 19.2 dB 16.1 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 32.878 Mbps 88.204 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 4.8 25.9 39.1 N/A 14.0 33.6 51.4
Signal Attenuation(dB): 4.8 25.6 38.4 N/A 11.0 33.3 51.4
SNR Margin(dB): 11.1 11.2 11.2 N/A 14.1 14.1 14.0
Transmit Power(dBm):-13.6 - 4.1 - 0.6 N/A 6.8 7.9 6.9
============================================================================
VDSL Counters
Downstream Upstream
Since Link time = 45 min 51 sec
FEC: 1737716 39384
CRC: 435 5
ES: 146 4
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 1 min 21 sec
FEC: 1092 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 669 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 1 hours 46 min 21 sec
FEC: 8239 105
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 111191 3082
CRC: 11 0
ES: 4 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Total time = 1 days 1 hours 46 min 21 sec
FEC: 1737716 39384
CRC: 435 5
ES: 146 4
SES: 0 0
UAS: 30 30
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
============================================================================
I don't know to be honest. My stats at present.

jca

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Why shouldn't you be complaining?

Post your stats from your router's configuration page.

Here's a tidier version of my stats.
============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 14 days: 1 hour: 56 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 20.549 Mbps 51.280 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 20.479 Mbps 51.197 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 11.2 dB 14.0 dB
Actual Delay: 4 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: 1.1 dBm 12.0 dBm
Receive Power: -18.0 dBm -4.1 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 19.2 dB 16.1 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 32.897 Mbps 88.204 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 4.8 25.9 39.1 N/A 14.0 33.6 51.4
Signal Attenuation(dB): 4.8 25.6 38.3 N/A 11.0 33.3 51.4
SNR Margin(dB): 11.2 11.2 11.2 N/A 13.9 14.1 13.9
Transmit Power(dBm):-13.6 - 4.1 - 0.6 N/A 6.8 7.9 6.9
============================================================================

FaganJr

Ah Found it!

Now what can ye tell me about my connection? Reckon I'm about 500-600m from Cab.

============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 0 hour: 52 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 15.418 Mbps 50.268 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 15.358 Mbps 50.170 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 12.6 dB 11.2 dB
Actual Delay: 4 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: 3.1 dBm 11.2 dBm
Receive Power: -17.2 dBm -8.6 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 20.4 dB 19.8 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 28.525 Mbps 77.268 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 5.1 27.3 40.9 N/A 14.7 34.9 54.2
Signal Attenuation(dB): 5.1 26.8 39.7 N/A 11.9 34.6 54.2
SNR Margin(dB): 13.1 12.7 12.6 N/A 11.2 11.2 11.2
Transmit Power(dBm):-12.5 - 2.6 1.6 N/A 3.2 7.9 6.9

Nonoperational

An attenuation of 19 puts you further than that.

Jesus there seems to be some pretty impressive results from the vectored cabinets. I must say this rollout continues to impress me. Hope they have adequate backhaul for everyone now.

AlanS181824

I wonder when they'll release the new profiles. Hopefully again I get Fibre there'll be some new packages that might actually be able to compete with UPC.

ED E

The profiles have been available to line ops for over a week in vectored areas and prequal tests in said areas now show vectored speeds.

SpaceTime

Seems vectoring was switched on at my cabinet overnight.

28.773 Mbps 72.340 Mbps

Previously was about 58 Mbit/s

Wellington Road Exchange area in Cork.

  VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     10.297 Mbps       41.116 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     10.239 Mbps       40.956 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:       18.9 dB           14.2 dB
            Actual Delay:          4 ms              8 ms
          Transmit Power:        7.4 dBm           9.8 dBm
           Receive Power:      -14.0 dBm          -9.2 dBm
              Actual INP:        2.0 symbols       3.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:       21.5 dB           19.0 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     28.773 Mbps       72.340 Mbps
   VDSL Band Status    U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  5.9    31.0    46.5     N/A    15.6    39.2    61.0   
Signal Attenuation(dB):  5.9    30.3    45.9     N/A    12.6    38.8    61.2   
        SNR Margin(dB): 19.6    18.4    19.2     N/A    14.2    14.3    14.1   
   Transmit Power(dBm):- 8.3     0.5     6.3     N/A     3.3     7.7     1.9   
============================================================================

Real world speed hasn't changed at all though - it's still hovering at around 40Mbit/s the major change has been the attainable speed went up on the modem stats.

red_bairn

Apparently there was suppose to be some change for today on Eircom's network. I wonder was there a change in the majority of exchanges with vectoring switched on.

SpaceTime

red_bairn wrote: »

Apparently there was suppose to be some change for today on Eircom's network. I wonder was there a change in the majority of exchanges with vectoring switched on.

From what I gather it's actually on a cabinet-by-cabinet basis. The exchanges don't really have anything to do with managing the cabinets.

They could be following cabinet serial numbers, or doing it geographically but it doesn't necessarily follow that it will be exchange-by-exchange.

There's probably some Huawei system managing the cabinet firmware centrally somewhere.

All that's in the exchanges is an aggregation node which is just a big fibre router basically and a connection to the core network. There maybe hand-over points for the other service providers in larger exchanges too i.e. this is where your data would pass over to Vodafone, Magenet, Digiweb etc etc.

With a rollout like this, you'd probably do it on a small scale first, then do large numbers of cabinets (possibly not all in the same area) to avoid disruption if the firmware didn't update properly or there was some kind of software glitch.

Looks like it all went very smoothly though.

My guess is that they'll now run some kind of test facility to establish new line speeds which might take a while. It looks like they're sticking to the profiles people are on for the moment.

You can't just crank up everyone's speed on DSL-based services as a significant % of lines could suddenly become unstable and you would create a tech support nightmare. So, I guess you have to get the cabinets to re-assess the lines or something like that.

Also, they're not selling new speeds yet, so I would assume those new profiles have to filter down to retail products too.

red_bairn

SpaceTime wrote: »

From what I gather it's actually on a cabinet-by-cabinet basis. The exchanges don't really have anything to do with managing the cabinets.

There's probably some Huawei system managing the cabinet firmware centrally somewhere.

All that's in the exchanges is an aggregation node which is just a big fibre router basically.

Ah fair enough, It must be about the issues people have been having with congestion during the evenings on all the products. Last month and January, we had been badly affected some days with drops in speed and massive pings. Worse than 56k.

As one of the others said, it's probably got to do with links and the nodes that they are working on.

Do they have to test vectoring individually for each cabinet? How long would that take?

SpaceTime

red_bairn wrote: »

Ah fair enough, It must be about the issues people have been having with congestion during the evenings on all the products. Last month and January, we had been badly affected some days with drops in speed and massive pings. Worse than 56k.

As one of the others said, it's probably got to do with links and the nodes that they are working on.

Do they have to test vectoring individually for each cabinet? How long would that take?

Other than Huawei, I don't think anyone could answer that one. I would assume the cabinets can automatically test for stability and will be updating some database of what's possible for each line that will eventually filter down to customer services or will result in an automatic speed 'bump' up to a higher profile.

It could quite possibly happen instantly, but it just takes a while for eircom and other operators to start activating services on different profiles.

Were you having problems on ADSL (old-school), ADSL/ADSL2+ on NGN or FTTC/VDSL (e-fibre) products?

red_bairn

SpaceTime wrote: »

Other than Huawei, I don't think anyone could answer that one. I would assume the cabinets can automatically test for stability and will be updating some database of what's possible for each line that will eventually filter down to customer services or will result in an automatic speed 'bump' up to a higher profile.

It could quite possibly happen instantly, but it just takes a while for eircom and other operators to start activating services on different profiles.

Were you having problems on ADSL (old-school), ADSL/ADSL2+ on NGN or FTTC/VDSL (e-fibre) products?

We were originally on ADSL via NGN at the Greystones exchange and I requested that we'd be bumped up to ADSL2+ when I found out that it was free to be setup on it. We had no issues until Christmas time and early this year.

Now I'd like to know from some official why we can't get eFibre in our estate although others can. With none of this "distance" bull. My mates family lives at the top of the estate, approxiamtely 100m from the cabinet and they can't get it, yet another neighbour at about 400-500m can get it. Dad always looks at me asking when we can get it and I can't answer because none of the Eircom Wholesale folk can talk to customers individually.

/end rant

crawler

red_bairn wrote: »

We were originally on ADSL via NGN at the Greystones exchange and I requested that we'd be bumped up to ADSL2+ when I found out that it was free to be setup on it. We had no issues until Christmas time and early this year.

Now I'd like to know from some official why we can't get eFibre in our estate although others can. With none of this "distance" bull. My mates family lives at the top of the estate, approxiamtely 100m from the cabinet and they can't get it, yet another neighbour at about 400-500m can get it. Dad always looks at me asking when we can get it and I can't answer because none of the Eircom Wholesale folk can talk to customers individually.

/end rant

Are all the cabinets in the estate active for VDSL?

red_bairn

crawler wrote: »

Are all the cabinets in the estate active for VDSL?

There is only one cabinet for 166 houses. It is at the entrance to our estate and people on the main road have no use of it according some other folk.

SpaceTime

red_bairn wrote: »

We were originally on ADSL via NGN at the Greystones exchange and I requested that we'd be bumped up to ADSL2+ when I found out that it was free to be setup on it. We had no issues until Christmas time and early this year.

Now I'd like to know from some official why we can't get eFibre in our estate although others can. With none of this "distance" bull. My mates family lives at the top of the estate, approxiamtely 100m from the cabinet and they can't get it, yet another neighbour at about 400-500m can get it. Dad always looks at me asking when we can get it and I can't answer because none of the Eircom Wholesale folk can talk to customers individually.

/end rant

Unfortunately, what it comes down to is that no telephone network anywhere in the world was built with FTTC technologies in mind. You're talking about local wiring systems that go back for decades, and predate the internet, and even any notion of digital telecommunications services, never mind FTTC. The wiring in your estate would be the same age as the houses and different methodologies were used in different places over the decades.

In most areas, they did use PCP cabinets to make the final connection to end users because it was more flexible for maintenance, installation and repair.
So, a bundle of wires arrives from the exchange to each cabinet and it's cross connected to lines that run to each building. In a setup like that, all they had to do was add the new fibre cabinet next to the existing one and connect up the lines.

In some other setups, you may find that your wiring was done underground entirely where bundles of wires arrive from the exchange to a series of underground vaults and individual homes are wired to special waterproof 'break out' connectors in those instead of a cabinet.

You also get setups in ribbon development (houses along long roads) where lines run either underground / overhead as a bundle of a few hundred wires in a cable and each house picks of a single pair. So, there'd be a junction on each pole / vault and some kind of a way of tapping into that bundle of wires.

In areas like that, they need to actually do very significant civil engineering and wiring work before they could enable e-fibre services.

In ribbon developments it might not even be possible or practical at all as the houses are too spread out along a long line and FTTC is designed to work radially (with a node in the centre where the homes are relatively equidistant from it)

The local copper network is basically just copper wires. The technology hasn't changed at all over 100 years. What has changed is the type of signals being fed into it.

i.e.

1920s-80: analogue voice services from electromechanical switches.
80s onwards : digital switches (still analogue voice though)
early 90s: ISDN - first 100% digital service direct to end users (still exchange based)
00s : ADSL (still exchange based)
2013: VDSL2 - first distributed system that wasn't exchange-based.

So, basically this is the first time ever that anything has been put in that significantly modifies the way the copper wiring is used.

FTTC was only really considered from about the mid 2000s onwards. So it's only sheer luck that the infrastructure happens to fit with it!

michaelotoole

It looks like each cabinet can handle 188 lines... at least that's what a video I watched appeared to indicate... (allowing for the fact it was some kind of training video from the UK, the cabinet looks identical but I guess they may be different)...

What's the correlation between the Line Rate & Attainable Net Data Rate:
For example, my Line rate is: 20.549 Mbps & 71.812 Mbps and my attainable rate is: 28.640 Mbps & 97.012 Mbps
My download is almost always: 67Mbps and up barely exceeds 15 or 16 Mbps with attenuation of: 9.6 dB up & 10.3 dB down...

Being less than 300 meters from the cabinet, why can't I get closer to the 97.012Mbps, is the limit set to 71.812Mbps?
Even if vectoring increases the attainable rate to over 100Mbps, will I see any actual improvements?


In theory if ppl posted the before and after speeds we could calculate the impact of vectoring for Joe average...
With enough information we could calculate average line attenuation per meter and possibly increase in speed one should expect...

Never had any use for statistical analysis before it could be of some benefit
Mike

ED E

michaelotoole wrote: »

It looks like each cabinet can handle 188 lines... at least that's what a video I watched appeared to indicate... (allowing for the fact it was some kind of training video from the UK, the cabinet looks identical but I guess they may be different)...

What's the correlation between the Line Rate & Attainable Net Data Rate:
For example, my Line rate is: 20.549 Mbps & 71.812 Mbps and my attainable rate is: 28.640 Mbps & 97.012 Mbps
My download is almost always: 67Mbps and up barely exceeds 15 or 16 Mbps with attenuation of: 9.6 dB up & 10.3 dB down...

Being less than 300 meters from the cabinet, why can't I get closer to the 97.012Mbps, is the limit set to 71.812Mbps?
Even if vectoring increases the attainable rate to over 100Mbps, will I see any actual improvements?


In theory if ppl posted the before and after speeds we could calculate the impact of vectoring for Joe average...
With enough information we could calculate average line attenuation per meter and possibly increase in speed one should expect...

Never had any use for statistical analysis before it could be of some benefit
Mike

Think of the attainable as you taking your car onto the motorway and slamming on the accelerator. Sure your car can do (just for example) 140Kph, but you wouldnt drive it max revs and max speed would you? Same goes for DSL products, the attainables a reasonable indication of the very peak sync speed, but for stability you drop back a bit so that little bursts of noise dont cause you to instantly disconnect.

Typically as you bring the actual sync speed up attainables fall off a little so it'd have to be checked on your line but its reasonably likely to make a 90Mb profile. If your cab has vectoring enabled your ISP can apply that today, if not you'll have to wait for vectoring to be enabled. Right now you're on a 70Mb profile so thats the highest speed the port in the cab will allow you to do.

seanp_25

Anyone know if I need to restart my router after vectoring is enabled? Or will the switch restart the connection automatically?

allen175

There is not need to restart, the cabs get updated and rebooted over night. you need to contact your ISP to get your profile changed.

wheresmybeaver

I've bridged my Vodafone vdsl modem to a different router, i did this back in november. I assume i therefore haven't received the latest firmware upgrade for the modem - do i need to reset the modem to get this? How long would it take for the update to be applied? I don't want to find myself either (a) losing my stable connection in the coming weeks or (b) getting either my modem or cabinet blacklisted by eircom or Vodafone because of my bridging requirements!