When might Eircom to enable vectoring on their eFibre/VDSL service?

KeRbDoG

Just starting a thread to see when we might actually see vectoring being enabled by Eircom on their eFibre/VDSL service.

I've heard February but has anyone seen/heard anything more solid than that?

dxhound2005

I have been checking Google regularly but there is nothing new since the press release last Sept. Where did you hear Feb?

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

Just curious, is 70Megabit/s not good enough for ya? I don't need more speed anyway.

jca

You can never get enough of a good thing. ..

KeRbDoG

georgiecasey wrote: »

Just curious, is 70Megabit/s not good enough for ya? I don't need more speed anyway.

Not everyone gets near the full possible speed. Also, good to squeeze every last drop of speed out of the connection when their TV service takes a chunk of bandwidth.
Maybe you should send Eircom a note asking them not to ever increase your broadband service to save them a few pennies

MichealKenny

Although technically feasible at the moment vectoring is incompatible with local-loop unbundling but future standard amendments could bring a solution.

That's a problem, it is how Vodafone and Magnet use Eircom's VDSL network, if it is not compatible, I doubt they'll do it.

wheresmybeaver

For my own purposes anything above 25mb is overkill. But its that lovely upload that i cant get enough of.. For streaming my videos when we're out of the house. i get about 12mb up right now, would be nice to get that bounced to about 20mb with vectoring.

bk

MichealKenny wrote: »

That's a problem, it is how Vodafone and Magnet use Eircom's VDSL network, if it is not compatible, I doubt they'll do it.

No they don't, Vodafone and Magnet aren't using VDSL LLU. They are using Eircom Bitstream local access.

Vodafone/Magnet/etc. are required to use modems compatible with vectoring.

georgiecasey wrote: »

Just curious, is 70Megabit/s not good enough for ya? I don't need more speed anyway.

Not everyone gets 70mb/s, it depends on distance from the exchange. Some users get as little as 18mb/s. Then sign up to eVision and it uses 10mb/s per HD channel you watch/record.

100mb/s will help make IPTV more reasonable.

Also vectoring might allow Eircom to service customers further out then the 1km limit from a cab. Which would be very welcome for more rural customers.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

bk wrote: »

Not everyone gets 70mb/s, it depends on distance from the exchange. Some users get as little as 18mb/s. Then sign up to eVision and it uses 10mb/s per HD channel you watch/record.

100mb/s will help make IPTV more reasonable.

Also vectoring might allow Eircom to service customers further out then the 1km limit from a cab. Which would be very welcome for more rural customers.

i thought vectoring depends even more on distance from cabinet and line quality. so if they can't get their full speed, vectoring won't help. i could be wrong though.

jd

georgiecasey wrote: »

i thought vectoring depends even more on distance from cabinet and line quality. so if they can't get their full speed, vectoring won't help. i could be wrong though.

http://www2.alcatel-lucent.com/techzine/boosting-vdsl2-bit-rates-with-vectoring/

Nonoperational

From that graph it looks like vectoring will bring 70Mbit out to 650- 700m or so which would be nice.

bk

Yes, speed does fall off the further out you get.

But as you can see from the above graph, it should extend the range of those who can get 20mb/s out by a couple hundreds of meters, perhaps even as much as 500 meters extra.

That might not sound like much, but that might be the difference between many people in rural areas being on a 5km long ADSL line getting 1mb/s and now getting 20mb/s.

ElNino

bk wrote: »

Not everyone gets 70mb/s, it depends on distance from the exchange. Some users get as little as 18mb/s. Then sign up to eVision and it uses 10mb/s per HD channel you watch/record.

eircom wouldn't allow someone with that little bandwith to sign up to eVision.

bk

ElNino wrote: »

eircom wouldn't allow someone with that little bandwith to sign up to eVision.

Actually they do. The 18mb/s is the stable profile for people on the 25mb/s standard profile who sign up for eVision.

swoofer

Am I right that for vectoring you need 4 wires connected and that will mean an engineers visit as my connection has only 2 wires connected. I could connect 2 more myself as 4 are used at the NTU end. This should have been done as part of the rollout it would have saved a second visit but then again that would be too simple.

jd

GBCULLEN wrote: »

Am I right that for vectoring you need 4 wires connected and that will mean an engineers visit as my connection has only 2 wires connected. I could connect 2 more myself as 4 are used at the NTU end. This should have been done as part of the rollout it would have saved a second visit but then again that would be too simple.

Nope. You are thinking of bonding.

bealtine

KeRbDoG wrote: »

Just starting a thread to see when we might actually see vectoring being enabled by Eircom on their eFibre/VDSL service.

I've heard February but has anyone seen/heard anything more solid than that?

Starting at the end of Feb and continuing into March or so I've been told

swoofer

thank you, bonding does that give even faster speeds?? and if I get vectoring I will be well happy ie exstatic, over the moon etc. to go from 6 mb to over 70mb plus in a year would be awesome.

What will happen to pings with vectoring? I get 35 or so at the moment.

dxhound2005

bealtine wrote: »

Starting at the end of Feb and continuing into March or so I've been told

I asked Kerbdog where he heard it was February but he never told me (I'm assuming he). Can you tell me who told you Feb/March?

ED E

GBCULLEN wrote: »

thank you, bonding does that give even faster speeds?? and if I get vectoring I will be well happy ie exstatic, over the moon etc. to go from 6 mb to over 70mb plus in a year would be awesome.

What will happen to pings with vectoring? I get 35 or so at the moment.

Shouldnt effect latency. You'll just get a nice little speed bump.


Does anyone know if users on a non rate adaptive profile will see the effect of it when it goes live or would they have to be bumped up one profile?

Danny Boy

http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/Fibre_Rollout/

Eircom are trialling it - look at the home working video at that link

loyatemu

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I asked Kerbdog where he heard it was February but he never told me (I'm assuming he). Can you tell me who told you Feb/March?

its what they're telling the industry.

jd

GBCULLEN wrote: »

thank you, bonding does that give even faster speeds?? and if I get vectoring I will be well happy ie exstatic, over the moon etc. to go from 6 mb to over 70mb plus in a year would be awesome.

Bonding would give faster speeds
http://www.jdsu.com/ProductLiterature/dsltech-wp-tfs-tm-ae.pdf
Dunno if it'll be done.

BTW ITU are looking at the G.FAST standard
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/172990-1000mbps-over-copper-telephone-lines-itu-begins-work-on-g-fast-successor-to-dsl

bk

jd wrote: »

Bonding would give faster speeds
http://www.jdsu.com/ProductLiterature/dsltech-wp-tfs-tm-ae.pdf
Dunno if it'll be done.

A bonded and vectored line could possibly give 200mb/s

However I think they will skip that and go to FTTH next.

jd wrote: »

BTW ITU are looking at the G.FAST standard
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/172990-1000mbps-over-copper-telephone-lines-itu-begins-work-on-g-fast-successor-to-dsl

G.FAST is basically almost FTTH. It only works over very short distances, less then 100 meters. So the idea behind it is that they run fibre as far as the last distribution point (e.g. the telephone pole outside your house) and use Fibre from there.

The advantage over FTTH, is that they would save on the cost and potential complexity of bringing Fibre right into the persons home.

jd

bk wrote: »

G.FAST is basically almost FTTH. It only works over very short distances, less then 100 meters. So the idea behind it is that they run fibre as far as the last distribution point (e.g. the telephone pole outside your house) and use Fibre from there.

The advantage over FTTH, is that they would save on the cost and potential complexity of bringing Fibre right into the persons home.

I thought Gfast could to about 250m. Also the remote devices are reverse powered, which has other advantages too..

Chris The Hacker

bk wrote: »

A bonded and vectored line could possibly give 200mb/s

Would vectored-bonding double someone's attainable net data rate?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86580198&postcount=48

As you can see, he gets 137Mb. So, I would reckon he would easily exceed 200Mb.

bk

jd wrote: »

I thought Gfast could to about 250m. Also the remote devices are reverse powered, which has other advantages too..

It can, but at 250m is gives you just 150mb/s, not much better then Vectored VDSL and so not really worth doing for this.

Take a look at the graph on this article:

http://www2.alcatel-lucent.com/techzine/the-numbers-are-in-vectoring-2-0-makes-g-fast-faster/

You will see that it falls off very quickly after 150M (where you get 400mb/s) and you need sub 100m to get 1Gb/s speed, which is really what they are looking for here.

The reverse powered remote device thing isn't actually G.FAST, it is the separate standard Fibre to the Distribution Point (FTTdp). However most people expect FTTdp to be used in conjunction with G.Fast.

Basically there is little point in doing G.Fast unless you are almost doing FTTH.

jd

bk wrote: »

Basically there is little point in doing G.Fast unless you are almost doing FTTH.

I don't actually disagree with you there, but it might save quite a few of the headaches that you may get from actually doing FTTH

bk

jd wrote: »

I don't actually disagree with you there, but it might save quite a few of the headaches that you may get from actually doing FTTH

Oh I agree, I'm not saying they shouldn't do G.Fast, just that there is no point in doing it without also doing FTTdp.

What I'm saying is that G.Fast isn't really an upgrade you can just make to the existing VDSL cabs, that in order to take advantage of G.Fast, you have to bring fibre a lot closer to peoples homes.

I expect they will do FTTH and G.Fast/FTTdp at the same time, using whichever technology makes more sense for a particular building.

Freddy Smelly

for those of ye that bought draytec vdsl2+ modems you need to start badgering draytec for a firmware update cos vectoring rollout starts later this month... no vectoring support means your modem wont connect when vectoring gets turned on at your cab.

the 2860n's current firmware currently DOES NOT support vectoring...

wheresmybeaver

For people currently using their eircom or Vodafone vdsl modems in bridging mode, will we have to do anything to be ready for vectoring? I heard that a firmware upgrade would be pushed out when vectoring is enabled and I'd be worried that this would block the bridging mode we're currently enjoying the use of..

swoofer

that is a very valid and worrying point. I seem to recall that was the reason for insisting on using their gateway and if they send an upgrade it might as per usual do a reset. I hope not and to be honest there should be no reason why it should automatically set to default. I have a netgear with the VF and when the netgear upgrades it retains all settings. but with VF who knows!! and I have forgotten how to bridge!! In fact I had to ring VF.

ElNino

What speeds can we expect the current 50 mb/s and 70 mb/s profiles to be bumped up to with vectoring?

Chris The Hacker

Just wondering, what are your motives for putting your router in bridge mode?

I got the Vodafone router a few weeks ago and I thought a new router would be a nightmare for a heavy uTorrent uploader like me, but, so far, this is the best router I've ever had.

ElNino wrote: »

What speeds can we expect the current 50 mb/s and 70 mb/s profiles to be bumped up to with vectoring?

With Eircom, your stats tell you your "attainable net data rate", which is tech-speak for your maximum speeds with vectoring enabled. Have a read through this thread and look for posters with Eircom as their ISP: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056971854

wheresmybeaver

Chris The Hacker wrote: »

Just wondering, what are your motives for putting your router in bridge mode?

I got the Vodafone router a few weeks ago and I thought a new router would be a nightmare for a heavy uTorrent uploader like me, but, so far, this is the best router I've ever had.



With Eircom, your stats tell you your "attainable net data rate", which is tech-speak for your maximum speeds with vectoring enabled. Have a read through this thread and look for posters with Eircom as their ISP: http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056971854

for whatever reason my Vodafone modem / router had a habit of disconnecting then becoming unresponsive every exactly 30 minutes, right from day 1. Couldn't figure it out. Engineer checked the line and everything. I called voda and they said they'd send a replacement router, which they never did. In the meanwhile i figured out that putting the modem into bridge mode with my old tp link router worked perfectly. Literally no disconnects in months.

Freddy Smelly

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

For people currently using their eircom or Vodafone vdsl modems in bridging mode, will we have to do anything to be ready for vectoring? I heard that a firmware upgrade would be pushed out when vectoring is enabled and I'd be worried that this would block the bridging mode we're currently enjoying the use of..

f1000 in bridge mode wont be updated.

to get the update take your modem out of bridge modem call eircom get them to push the update when it is ready then put it back into bridge mode

bk

ElNino wrote: »

What speeds can we expect the current 50 mb/s and 70 mb/s profiles to be bumped up to with vectoring?

If you get 70mb/s at the moment, then you will get 100mb/s with vectoring.

ElNino

bk wrote: »

If you get 70mb/s at the moment, then you will get 100mb/s with vectoring.

Thanks and if you are on 50mb/s? I am only about 50 metres from a cabinet but eircom wouldn't sell me 70mb/s at the time. I guess that I could ask them to upgrade me now.

SpaceTime

When is this likely to happen?

bk

ElNino wrote: »

Thanks and if you are on 50mb/s? I am only about 50 metres from a cabinet but eircom wouldn't sell me 70mb/s at the time. I guess that I could ask them to upgrade me now.

It depends, was it a case that your line was capable of 70mb/s and Eircom would only sell you 50mb/s at the time?

I remember they weren't selling 70mb/s to anyone at the start, but they seem to be selling it now, so perhaps worth calling and checking.

A 70mb/s line should jump to 100mb/s

A 50mb/s line should jump to at least 75mb/s, but possibly even closer to 100mb/s (the vectoring MIGHT help eliminate some of the line noise that caused the lower speed in the first place).

SpaceTime wrote: »

When is this likely to happen?

I believe the first few cabinets will start going live at the end of this month. With cabs gradually enabled from then. If all goes well, most cabinets should be vector enabled by the end of March.

Chris The Hacker

How many cabinets have they built so far?

ElNino

My install was done right at the start in the first week and I don't think that they were selling the 70mb/s product to anyone at that stage. I suspect the reason was to do with holding back bandwith for eVision as it definitely wasn't anything to do with the line in my case.

If I upgrade from 50mb/s to 70mb/s does that start a new contract? I would like to keep my options open to see what the ESB do or if Sky do good bundles with their TV when they finally enter the fibre market.

SpaceTime

bk wrote: »

I believe the first few cabinets will start going live at the end of this month. With cabs gradually enabled from then. If all goes well, most cabinets should be vector enabled by the end of March.

It looks to be fairly straight forward if it's just a phased software update.

If I were planning the rollout, I'd do fairly random cabinets rather than going exchange-by-exchange as if there was any issue you wouldn't want to take down a whole area's service simultaneously.

I'd guess they'll try it on a smaller number of cabinets first to see how things work and if it's all smooth sailing, the rest will go live very rapidly.

Praetorian

I got a call from my provider today to say that our broadband would be down for 10 minutes next tuesday at 00.10 for vector upgrades.

I was also told it would be 1 or 2 months before the upgrade is turned on.

100m/bit has been talked about a lot. Is that all the CPE can actually manage? I had thought it was silly to have only 100m/bit lan on all the CPE that I have used so far on fiber. Of course I will be happy with 100 x 30 but 120 or 130 x 30 would be a really nice headline speed

Nonoperational

Although I use a mere fraction of my currant bandwidth, I WANT VECTORING NOW!

swoofer

Praetorian who are you with and where are you? roughly. It does not make sense for an ISP to ring ie could be in the thousands!! Did you ask what they were going to do? viz, update software or fiddle with cabinet?

We are all really interested.

gb-

Praetorian

Ill pm you gb.

jca

Praetorian wrote: »

Ill pm you gb.

Why the PM? How are they going to implement it? Did you ISP tell you?

Praetorian

I think they are doing it via a software patch as the call was about several lines all on different cabs in the same town! I am looking forward to faster upload speeds again. As I'm uploading a lot of 4k high frame rate ridiculously big video files from alexa and red cameras! At least it's actually possible now

SpaceTime

Don't think we received any notifications here about anything yet.

swoofer

its possible its only for business customers and no doubt they will get priority ie the ISP will make sure vectoring works properly.