When might Eircom to enable vectoring on their eFibre/VDSL service?

red_bairn

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

I've bridged my Vodafone vdsl modem to a different router, i did this back in november. I assume i therefore haven't received the latest firmware upgrade for the modem - do i need to reset the modem to get this? How long would it take for the update to be applied? I don't want to find myself either (a) losing my stable connection in the coming weeks or (b) getting either my modem or cabinet blacklisted by eircom or Vodafone because of my bridging requirements!

There is no reason for you to upgrade your modem unless you have issues with it.

fat-tony

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

I've bridged my Vodafone vdsl modem to a different router, i did this back in november. I assume i therefore haven't received the latest firmware upgrade for the modem - do i need to reset the modem to get this? How long would it take for the update to be applied? I don't want to find myself either (a) losing my stable connection in the coming weeks or (b) getting either my modem or cabinet blacklisted by eircom or Vodafone because of my bridging requirements!

Why don't you connect an ethernet cable between your PC and the VF modem and check the info/status page? If the modem firmware ends in B214 then you have the latest. Not sure if this firmware is absolutely required for vectoring - seems a bit odd that VF would roll out new modems which didn't have vectoring capability, although the new firmware seems to be reporting FEC and CRC errors differently and also has the bridging capability built-in - no secret menu messing required. There is some debate as to whether bridged modems will support vectoring and therefore may be blacklisted or disabled, but I'm of the view that VF would not have provided a bridging capability in the firmware if it would defeat their management of the modem.

wheresmybeaver

red_bairn wrote: »

There is no reason for you to upgrade your modem unless you have issues with it.

I thought I would need the latest firmware which is vectoring-enabled?

fat-tony wrote: »

Why don't you connect an ethernet cable between your PC and the VF modem and check the info/status page? If the modem firmware ends in B214 then you have the latest. Not sure if this firmware is absolutely required for vectoring - seems a bit odd that VF would roll out new modems which didn't have vectoring capability, although the new firmware seems to be reporting FEC and CRC errors differently and also has the bridging capability built-in - no secret menu messing required. There is some debate as to whether bridged modems will support vectoring and therefore may be blacklisted or disabled, but I'm of the view that VF would not have provided a bridging capability in the firmware if it would defeat their management of the modem.

Exactly, if there's any chance of my modem being blacklisted (and possibly being without a connection for a few days while I try to get it sorted - not sure what's involved) then I'd like to avoid it. I'll try connecting the laptop directly to the modem later to check the firmware version. Do I need to set a manual IP on the laptop, and how do I know the IP address of the modems webUI?

brian ireland

How do we find out if its available in our area. Is it a case of just ringing VF and asking? or is there a list of cabinets somewhere.

michaelotoole

ED E wrote: »

Right now you're on a 70Mb profile so thats the highest speed the port in the cab will allow you to do.

Thanks ED E...

To be honest, I don't have any issues with my connection speed. I'm just curious... Lets assume I pay for 70Mbps and I'm caped at 70Mbps... then allowing for the caps algorithm, I would never reach 70Mbps...

Working backwards, such calculation requires an average component in excess of the max, but if the cap is applied at 70Mbps, then the average is never attainable... It's mathematically impossible...

It's pure semantics on my behalf, not a complaint or anything like it, I just wonder how the concept of "up to" has been derived if the limit is paced at the 70Mbps...

crawler

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

I've bridged my Vodafone vdsl modem to a different router, i did this back in november. I assume i therefore haven't received the latest firmware upgrade for the modem - do i need to reset the modem to get this? How long would it take for the update to be applied? I don't want to find myself either (a) losing my stable connection in the coming weeks or (b) getting either my modem or cabinet blacklisted by eircom or Vodafone because of my bridging requirements!

If you bridge your modem on the older software then the modem cant see the TR69 server and the PPP session terminates on the device you bought. Therefore the modem wont update.

When vectoring goes live the modem wont support vectoring and you wont benefit form the new speeds and if it causes interference it will be disconnected immediately.

What I would suggest is

1) Unbridge the modem
2) restart it
3) Leave it 30 minutes or so
4) it will have a software version ending B214
5) Put it back in bridge mode (supported on B214 anyway)

Hope that helps

fat-tony

But @crawler - if the modem won't support vectoring when it's bridged it will be disabled by the DSLAM and therefore there is no point in bridging???
Are you 100% sure that the modem is managed only by TR-069 and not by any other side-channel technique and can therefore participate in vectoring and possible firmware updates?
Seems odd that VF would enable customer initiated bridging in the Huawei modem/router firmware if it resulted in VF's inability to manage the essential functions on the modem side

ED E

michaelotoole wrote: »

Thanks ED E...

To be honest, I don't have any issues with my connection speed. I'm just curious... Lets assume I pay for 70Mbps and I'm caped at 70Mbps... then allowing for the caps algorithm, I would never reach 70Mbps...

Working backwards, such calculation requires an average component in excess of the max, but if the cap is applied at 70Mbps, then the average is never attainable... It's mathematically impossible...

It's pure semantics on my behalf, not a complaint or anything like it, I just wonder how the concept of "up to" has been derived if the limit is paced at the 70Mbps...

There are set profiles. Its something like 7 9 12 18 24 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100(BKs post has them somewhere). You are set to the one just down from where your max attainable would be.

To explain:
Scenario 1: 85Mb attainables, 90Mb profile. Modem will sync around 85Mb but will be going as fast as it can and there will be no margain for error. In most cases this will drop the connection very regularly as there is no noise headroom.
Scenario 2: 85Mb attainables, 80Mb profile. Syncs at 80 and has more noise headroom. Should be very stable.

In your case though, 70 was the highest profile on the system when you ordered so thats what you're on. You just need to be reprofiled.

Also syncs arent an even 70000kps, its twos complement so it'll be 71.xxx Mbps, and with DSL at least it'll sometimes sync a few kbps either side of the profile.

ED E

fat-tony wrote: »

But @crawler - if the modem won't support vectoring when it's bridged it will be disabled by the DSLAM and therefore there is no point in bridging???
Are you 100% sure that the modem is managed only by TR-069 and not by any other side-channel technique and can therefore participate in vectoring and possible firmware updates?
Seems odd that VF would enable customer initiated bridging in the Huawei modem/router firmware if it resulted in VF's inability to manage the essential functions on the modem side

Bridging is 100% compatible with vectoring once the FW update has been done in advance. Otherwise businesses would tell them to F'ck right off as many use a Sonicwall or similar to run their PPPoE session and manage all wan aspects.

fat-tony

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

... and how do I know the IP address of the modems webUI?

The default address is 192.168.1.1

fat-tony

ED E wrote: »

Bridging is 100% compatible with vectoring once the FW update has been done in advance. Otherwise businesses would tell them to F'ck right off as many use a Sonicwall or similar to run their PPPoE session and manage all wan aspects.

That's what I would have thought, that vectoring would work in bridged mode. The implication in various posts is that vectoring would not work in bridged mode and is causing some panic.
If VF have released the initial batch of Huawei modem/routers without vectoring support and are dependent on a successful firmware upgrade to enable it, then that's just plain crazy! VF were requested for a changelog for the B214 firmware and have yet to oblige. Are you assuming that the primary reason for the firmware upgrade was to enable vectoring or do you have a source of info for what it contains, other than the obvious UI changes, packet error counts and NAT logging?

crawler

fat-tony wrote: »

But @crawler - if the modem won't support vectoring when it's bridged it will be disabled by the DSLAM and therefore there is no point in bridging???
Are you 100% sure that the modem is managed only by TR-069 and not by any other side-channel technique and can therefore participate in vectoring and possible firmware updates?
Seems odd that VF would enable customer initiated bridging in the Huawei modem/router firmware if it resulted in VF's inability to manage the essential functions on the modem side

Nope - I am guessing the new software supports briding for that very reason. the older firmware did not until the vectoring software was optimised, as would be normal.

This is also why VF didnt support bridging in the initial firmware I am guessing but you'd need to ask them

It's easily solved anywsay for folks who did manually bridge the modem themselves.

SpaceTime

Vectoring and bridging have nothing to do with each other. The problem is that Vodafone's modem's onboard management software can't be contacted when the device is bridged.

That means you're not getting a software update.

You'd think they would have shipped them with this enabled from day one !

Vico1612

fat-tony wrote: »

That's what I would have thought, that vectoring would work in bridged mode. The implication in various posts is that vectoring would not work in bridged mode and is causing some panic.
If VF have released the initial batch of Huawei modem/routers without vectoring support and are dependent on a successful firmware upgrade to enable it, then that's just plain crazy! VF were requested for a changelog for the B214 firmware and have yet to oblige. Are you assuming that the primary reason for the firmware upgrade was to enable vectoring or do you have a source of info for what it contains, other than the obvious UI changes, packet error counts and NAT logging?

As I didn't get any feedback on Boards from VF about the B214 firmware, I posted on their community site and was told that B214 is indeed for Vectoring

Nonoperational

fat-tony wrote: »

That's what I would have thought, that vectoring would work in bridged mode. The implication in various posts is that vectoring would not work in bridged mode and is causing some panic.
If VF have released the initial batch of Huawei modem/routers without vectoring support and are dependent on a successful firmware upgrade to enable it, then that's just plain crazy! VF were requested for a changelog for the B214 firmware and have yet to oblige. Are you assuming that the primary reason for the firmware upgrade was to enable vectoring or do you have a source of info for what it contains, other than the obvious UI changes, packet error counts and NAT logging?

I never saw that implication anywhere. The implication was that the software wouldn't update if the modem was bridged.

wheresmybeaver

Just reset my bridged Vodafone modem there (paperclip in reset button).

Within about a minute of the router being up and running and before I even had a chance to login and check the firmware version the router did an automatic reset, presumably after receiving the firmware update.

After I logged in I saw the software version ending in B214. And like others have said Bridging is now actually supported in this version. They evidently didn't want many customers bridging before the vectoring software was finalised.

Thanks for everyone's help with this, didn't want to risk losing my vdsl connection and having to deal with Vodafone technical support <shudder>

red_bairn

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

Just reset my bridged Vodafone modem there (paperclip in reset button).

Within about a minute of the router being up and running and before I even had a chance to login and check the firmware version the router did an automatic reset, presumably after receiving the firmware update.

After I logged in I saw the software version ending in B214. And like others have said Bridging is now actually supported in this version. They evidently didn't want many customers bridging before the vectoring software was finalised.

Thanks for everyone's help with this, didn't want to risk losing my vdsl connection and having to deal with Vodafone technical support <shudder>

Yeah sorry for earlier where I presumed that the router didn't require a firmware update. I presumed the vectoring was already set on the shipped VDSL modem. I heard from another poster about the FTTC being upgraded. Didn't realise both needed to be sorted.

fat-tony

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

Just reset my bridged Vodafone modem there (paperclip in reset button).

Within about a minute of the router being up and running and before I even had a chance to login and check the firmware version the router did an automatic reset, presumably after receiving the firmware update.

After I logged in I saw the software version ending in B214. And like others have said Bridging is now actually supported in this version. They evidently didn't want many customers bridging before the vectoring software was finalised.

Thanks for everyone's help with this, didn't want to risk losing my vdsl connection and having to deal with Vodafone technical support <shudder>

Did you look at the log in the modem/router? I'm still curious about this assertion that VF cannot manage the modem when it is in bridged mode. I would have thought that the software in the modem would still interrupt the user session (or use some other PVC or side-channel) to contact the VF management system (ACS) at intervals, even in bridged mode. If you can check your log, can you look back several days/weeks to see if it is still contacting the ACS? Or maybe the act of resetting the device with a paperclip deletes the log entirely. Here's a snip of my log showing when the B214 download happened:

2010-01-01 00:00:59  User Debug cms 1 HuaweiATP DSL activate successfully
2010-01-01 00:00:59  Security Notice cms 1 HuaweiATP System up
2014-03-04 02:21:47  Daemon Management cwmp 1 HuaweiATP Reboot from the WAN side.
2014-03-04 02:21:40  Daemon Management upg 0 HuaweiATP Upgrading finished: cwmp.
2014-03-04 02:21:10  Daemon Warning upg 0 HuaweiATP Upgrading beginning ...
2014-03-03 18:19:32  Daemon Management cwmp 1 HuaweiATP PERIODIC informed.

wheresmybeaver

fat-tony wrote: »

Did you look at the log in the modem/router? I'm still curious about this assertion that VF cannot manage the modem when it is in bridged mode. I would have thought that the software in the modem would still interrupt the user session (or use some other PVC or side-channel) to contact the VF management system (ACS) at intervals, even in bridged mode. If you can check your log, can you look back several days/weeks to see if it is still contacting the ACS? Or maybe the act of resetting the device with a paperclip deletes the log entirely. Here's a snip of my log showing when the B214 download happened:

2010-01-01 00:00:59  User Debug cms 1 HuaweiATP DSL activate successfully
2010-01-01 00:00:59  Security Notice cms 1 HuaweiATP System up
2014-03-04 02:21:47  Daemon Management cwmp 1 HuaweiATP Reboot from the WAN side.
2014-03-04 02:21:40  Daemon Management upg 0 HuaweiATP Upgrading finished: cwmp.
2014-03-04 02:21:10  Daemon Warning upg 0 HuaweiATP Upgrading beginning ...
2014-03-03 18:19:32  Daemon Management cwmp 1 HuaweiATP PERIODIC informed.

I never looked in the log, but from my experience with routers I would say the log was reset when I did the factory reset. The fact that the router was alive for a minute or two after the reset and then performed it's own self-restart leads me to believe that the firmware was not received and / or applied until I was out of bridged mode.

I did notice when I was putting the modem back into bridged mode that I had to disable the VOIP and TR-069 services before the setting could be applied. I assume TR-069 is the protocol Vodafone use to send firmware updates, so this being disabled blocks the update. And anyway the PPPoE connection terminates with my own router, so there'd be no point in bridging the TR-069 service.

fat-tony

Yes - TR-069 support requires a session with VF's control system, but I wasn't sure if the modem firmware was able to do this on a separate PVC outside the PPPoE session which your router is controlling. I couldn't find any hard fact references in the TR-069 spec or elsewhere that states categorically that bridging kills TR-069 support.

You're saying that the modem firmware wouldn't accept the bridging setting until you explicitly disabled TR-069? If so, that would seem to confirm it.:)

Vico1612

Looks like VF have bumped my line with Vectoring ...

fat-tony

Very good:) I keep checking mine every day, even though it's excellent at 70Mb:P

Vico1612

AlanS181824

Vico1612 wrote: »

Wow! That's a great download, pitty the upload isn't better though.

OneEightSeven

Vico1612 wrote: »

Download one of those 1.3GB files from HEAnet and take a screenshot: http://ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/linuxmint.com/testing/

Vico1612

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Download one of those 1.3GB filesfrom HEAnet and take a screenshot: http://ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/linuxmint.com/testing/

Already done :-)
Won't tell you how long it took .... don't want to ruin your evening ...

Less than 2 mins

dxhound2005

Vico1612 wrote: »

This is the first proof I have seen that vectoring is in operation anywhere.

dxhound2005

AlanS181824 wrote: »

Wow! That's a great download, pitty the upload isn't better though.

Upload is never going to be more than 20 at present.

OcocO

Vico1612 wrote: »

Already done :-)
Won't tell you how long it took .... don't want to ruin your evening ...

Less than 2 mins

<green with envy>

brian ireland

Is there any way to find out if it available in your area?