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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Sickened while stalking

12467

Comments

  • #92
    PL05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭PL05


    Its a scary situation when your on your way back to jeep after dark and suddenly a lamp comes on followed by shots and frustrating also knowing that 10 min earlier you saw a group of deer that you yourself did,nt shoot at because it was too dark for safe shot and could,nt see clearly enough through scope, which is doing things the right way as you know and some arseh*le that has no right to be there takes a deer maybe 2 on your permission. It makes my blood boil. now at the time i did,nt report it cause i thought maybe im being paranoid and it might have been lads after foxes, but a while after that the land owner came across a dead one left in the field, he was livid so i assured him it was,nt any of my doing as i had even fired a shot on his land at this stage as id only had permission for a few months at this stage, anyway i told him what had happened re lamp and shots and was angry about that aswell, so this is what your up against, pr***s doing this and the eye going on you but thankfully the land owner knew i was genuine.


  • #93
    PL05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭PL05


    Downwind wrote: »
    That's another thing most if not all of the farmers I know are delighted to have the number of a trained and certified Deer Stalker in their phone, I've been asked to clear feral goats, take out dogs chasing sheep, and I've found in the past when I need to apply to National Parks and Wildlife for the licence all of the lads just tell me to resubmit last years letter, there's no drama .So I think the farmers we all know value us just as much as we value the permissions. So all we are discussing is enhancing our collective sense of responsibility and reinforcing our professionalism.

    Dont get me wrong, im not trying to put farmers down, just curious as to how many would report suspected poachers.


  • #94
    Downwind
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭Downwind


    PL05 wrote: »
    Its a scary situation when your on your way back to jeep after dark and suddenly a lamp comes on followed by shots and frustrating also knowing that 10 min earlier you saw a group of deer that you yourself did,nt shoot at because it was too dark for safe shot and could,nt see clearly enough through scope, which is doing things the right way as you know and some arseh*le that has no right to be there takes a deer maybe 2 on your permission. It makes my blood boil. now at the time i did,nt report it cause i thought maybe im being paranoid and it might have been lads after foxes, but a while after that the land owner came across a dead one left in the field, he was livid so i assured him it was,nt any of my doing as i had even fired a shot on his land at this stage as id only had permission for a few months at this stage, anyway i told him what had happened re lamp and shots and was angry about that aswell, so this is what your up against, pr***s doing this and the eye going on you but thankfully the land owner knew i was genuine.


    The fact that as Stalkers we are discussing the problem and the fact that I have committed to making phone calls , cannot commit for anyone else is going to be discussed and may have no impact . However it is sending out a signal and its along the lines of this "I ve had enough"


  • #95
    PL05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭PL05


    Downwind wrote: »
    The fact that as Stalkers we are discussing the problem and the fact that I have committed to making phone calls , cannot commit for anyone else is going to be discussed and may have no impact . However it is sending out a signal and its along the lines of this "I ve had enough"

    Think i,ll be doing the same, infact another permission i have the same thing is going on but its a bit of traveling so might be planing a little camp over on that one to gather a bit of evidence. Anyway good luck and be careful and post up if you have anything to report. Maybe there should be a thread set up for this for reporting poaching which might give us all an idea of how bad it is.


  • #96
    Downwind
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭Downwind


    PL05 wrote: »
    Think i,ll be doing the same, infact another permission i have the same thing is going on but its a bit of traveling so might be planing a little camp over on that one to gather a bit of evidence. Anyway good luck and be careful and post up if you have anything to report. Maybe there should be a thread set up for this for reporting poaching which might give us all an idea of how bad it is.

    Sound


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  • #97
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,324 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    marcp wrote: »
    I think tags would be a good idea. Works for the rest of the world.

    And guess what sort of tags we would get here??Like our liscenses made by the cheapest bidder of the lowest quality,easily forgable , rigged to the most inaccurate most expensive computor system .Ask yourself this question..When has Ireland deliverd a fully functioning electronic system to the taxpayer that has worked 95% straight out of the box,hasnt gone over budget,is user friendly didnt involve some sort of scandal of wastage of taxpayers money,or pals looking for a job,and doesnt cost us an arm ,a leg and a right nut to use??

    Think E voting machines,Dublin bus integrated ticket systems, PULSE system TETRA radio system,soon to be happening expensive fiasco of postal codes,etc,etc,etc

    Then apply these pre conditions to a proposed tag system here,and think would it be an effective poaching deterrent?:pac:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #98
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,324 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Capercaille wrote: »
    Golden Eagle are a native species. Sika deer, Fallow deer are not. Golden Eagle have no negative effect on native wildlife and to date there have been no reports in Ireland of them taking any live lambs. Sika deer/fallow deer spread TB to cattle, damage crops, destroy forestry especially native tree and sika hybridize with Red deer.

    And red deer dont spread TB either??How amazing and they dont destroy forestry either??:rolleyes: When in your opinion does a species become native in a country?? Should we pack the pheasents bags and serve them along with the sika and fallow deer with deportation orders??

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #99
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,324 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    coolbeans wrote: »
    I'd generally avoid approaching people directly especially as the are engaged in a criminal act and have guns. You'd just never know. I'd just "happen" upon them so to speak with the video cam on my phone going getting number plates and any other evidence. No need for confrontation if you're smart about it.

    TECHNOLOGY IS YOUR FRIEND people. Trail cams these days are marvelous devices that can send to your email account or your Iphone actual real time pics and streaming video clips taken in the darkest of night with undetectable Infa red light.All costing about 160 quid and not much bigger than a box of 20 .308 shells. If you can operate your computor you can work one of these.
    All the pics and videos are time&date stamped automatically too.So you have usable evidence for prosecutions.
    Set one or two of these on your entry /exit pointsto your lets and you cut down your patrolling times .
    BTW if you were that close to their vechicle and you knew they were 100% poaching... 4 flat tyres might get the message across alot more quicker.
    NOT that we would do somthing like that of course...

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #100
    stef22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭stef22


    Hi Grizzly ,
    tags would be the solution but have to agree with you the government has a tendency to screw up things.
    Anyway , do you use a webcam yourself ? Any particular model you found to be good and that doesn't cost an arm ?


  • #101
    grassroot1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    TECHNOLOGY IS YOUR FRIEND people. Trail cams these days are marvelous devices that can send to your email account or your Iphone actual real time pics and streaming video clips taken in the darkest of night with undetectable Infa red light.All costing about 160 quid and not much bigger than a box of 20 .308 shells. If you can operate your computor you can work one of these.
    All the pics and videos are time&date stamped automatically too.So you have usable evidence for prosecutions.
    Set one or two of these on your entry /exit pointsto your lets and you cut down your patrolling times .
    BTW if you were that close to their vechicle and you knew they were 100% poaching... 4 flat tyres might get the message across alot more quicker.
    NOT that we would do somthing like that of course...

    Hold on a minute for the technology to work you need to get convictions and pictures of a jeep in a particular place will not convict anyone!
    Take the money out of the current situation and poaching will decline. I see not other way . I fully understand you frustration.


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  • #102
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,324 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Been using this fellah


    SUNTEK HC 300M it sends both SMS and email pics to your phone and PC.Shop about on Ali baba or the net and you will get it for about 150 quid inc postage. They take a bit of foostering and fooling around to get a good shot starting out.But they are brilliant once they are set up. You do need to use nicad re chargeables in them [recommended],but you can get an optional solar panel as well to keep them charged. A few of the pics from mine .Appx size 17 cms X 12 cmsX 10 cms.


    The simplest way to sort out this poaching is take the money aspect out of it.No money,no reason to poach. That is hideous explotation by game dealers.They pay 70/100 to the shooter and make 700/800 per carcass export.No wonder the place is being raped and denuded of deer.:mad:
    Some of these people should be hung on their own meat hooks!:mad:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #103
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,324 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    grassroot1 wrote: »
    Hold on a minute for the technology to work you need to get convictions and pictures of a jeep in a particular place will not convict anyone!
    Take the money out of the current situation and poaching will decline. I see not other way . I fully understand you frustration.

    True ,but it wil convict them if it gets a 60 sec long video of them shooting,loading a carcass and having a good chat about their activities,in the dead of night.This also delivers video and sound footage.:D
    Put it like this I wish I had this when I was employed by a council to catch fly tippers six years ago .Would have made life oh sooo easy.:rolleyes:

    Take the money out of it and iwill die back,couldnt agree more.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #104
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    Gents, does anyone know if there are any figures, or where we could get figures in the number of carcasses sold by or to dealers?


  • #105
    marcp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166 ✭✭marcp


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    Gents, does anyone know if there are any figures, or where we could get figures in the number of carcasses sold by or to dealers?

    I remember seeing something somewhere online of numbers of deer shot in each county and species in 2010-2011 season. Can't find it now though.


  • #106
    grassroot1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    Gents, does anyone know if there are any figures, or where we could get figures in the number of carcasses sold by or to dealers?

    Foi to Bord bia?


  • #107
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    marcp wrote: »
    I remember seeing something somewhere online of numbers of deer shot in each county and species in 2010-2011 season. Can't find it now though.


    That would be the npws returns figures I think. What would be interesting is to see that figure in comparison to the amount of deer sold into game dealers.

    That, and the fact that it is reckoned only about 9% of deer licence holders sell game to dealers (which makes it about 450) individuals, it would be very interesting to see how those figures all relate to each other.

    Any favourable TD's we could push to get some if this I formation?


  • #108
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    marcp wrote: »
    I remember seeing something somewhere online of numbers of deer shot in each county and species in 2010-2011 season. Can't find it now though.


    That would be the npws returns figures I think. What would be interesting is to see that figure in comparison to the amount of deer sold into game dealers.

    That, and the fact that it is reckoned only about 9% of deer licence holders sell game to dealers (which makes it about 450) individuals, it would be very interesting to see how those figures all relate to each other.

    Any favourable TD's we could push to get some if this I formation?


  • #109
    Capercaille
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭Capercaille


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    And red deer dont spread TB either??How amazing and they dont destroy forestry either??:rolleyes: When in your opinion does a species become native in a country?? Should we pack the pheasents bags and serve them along with the sika and fallow deer with deportation orders??
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88569217&postcount=50
    As regards pheasant, as far is known they are reality benign species. No research though has been done on their effects on native wildlife.
    Red Deer do spread TB and damage forestry, they are deemed native though the others are not.


  • #110
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    Capercaille wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88569217&postcount=50
    As regards pheasant, as far is known they are reality benign species. No research though has been done on their effects on native wildlife.
    Red Deer do spread TB and damage forestry, they are deemed native though the others are not.

    All completely irrelevant regards this thread though, which is about poaching.

    Perhaps you should set up a thread about culling if native or non native species and discuss it their?

    In the mean time, back to discussing the incident of illegal deer poaching....


  • #111
    grassroot1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    Does anyone know the offical position of the NARGC or WDAI on poaching


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  • #112
    gthomas1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 ✭gthomas1


    I understand being in a situation that is so tough financially that a deer could make the difference between eating, and not eating. My problem with things like this is the fact that most people do it just to do it. They don't have the skill or guts or something to hunt during the appropriate times of the year like the rest of us. The population needs to be managed in order for those deer that live to have the highest quality of life, but that doesn't mean they need to be hunted in the middle of the night.


  • #113
    Hillhunter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 90 ✭✭Hillhunter


    Having read all this thread with interest , it is a common sight these days , I myself am in a lease , and in this same lease with about 20 years, I like others pay €600 approx . I do this for recreation / and my own table,and not for financial gain. Definetlly over the last 3/5 years I see the numbers decline in the wood and surrounding areas, this is due to as already quoted scum bags with lights and also there buddies with large dogs. The only answer to this is stop it at the game dealers, we have game dealers leaving this country weekly with packed lorries , again financial gain, for what ,? If this is not stopped shortly we will all be going outside the country to shoot our sport. Definetlly our grandchildren will not see a wild deer in the years to come. If so called hunters want to sell deer, limit each hunter to 10/20 deer per season and then tax their gains , I have been told of lads selling up to 150 animals per season legally, we as hunters/ sportsmen cannot leave this carry on , we need to do something, I don't have the answer but surely someone can suggest a remedy .


  • #114
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,324 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    That would be the npws returns figures I think. What would be interesting is to see that figure in comparison to the amount of deer sold into game dealers.

    That, and the fact that it is reckoned only about 9% of deer licence holders sell game to dealers (which makes it about 450) individuals, it would be very interesting to see how those figures all relate to each other.

    Any favourable TD's we could push to get some if this I formation?


    Freedom OFIInformation Act;):) Send a request to NPWS on this for the returns of 2012/13 and the figures of carcasses recorded sold at Game dealers.As well as what is being paid for a carcass at a dealer,and what the average sale price is of said carcass out of Ireland.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #115
    PL05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭PL05


    Hillhunter wrote: »
    Having read all this thread with interest , it is a common sight these days , I myself am in a lease , and in this same lease with about 20 years, I like others pay €600 approx . I do this for recreation / and my own table,and not for financial gain. Definetlly over the last 3/5 years I see the numbers decline in the wood and surrounding areas, this is due to as already quoted scum bags with lights and also there buddies with large dogs. The only answer to this is stop it at the game dealers, we have game dealers leaving this country weekly with packed lorries , again financial gain, for what ,? If this is not stopped shortly we will all be going outside the country to shoot our sport. Definetlly our grandchildren will not see a wild deer in the years to come. If so called hunters want to sell deer, limit each hunter to 10/20 deer per season and then tax their gains , I have been told of lads selling up to 150 animals per season legally, we as hunters/ sportsmen cannot leave this carry on , we need to do something, I don't have the answer but surely someone can suggest a remedy .
    spot on there, except the 10/20 deer being allowed be sold, it should be far less if deer herds are to have a chance of recovering. cut it at the quick as a buisness which it should have never been. F**king greed makes me puke.


  • #116
    Downwind
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭Downwind


    Hillhunter wrote: »
    Having read all this thread with interest , it is a common sight these days , I myself am in a lease , and in this same lease with about 20 years, I like others pay €600 approx . I do this for recreation / and my own table,and not for financial gain. Definetlly over the last 3/5 years I see the numbers decline in the wood and surrounding areas, this is due to as already quoted scum bags with lights and also there buddies with large dogs. The only answer to this is stop it at the game dealers, we have game dealers leaving this country weekly with packed lorries , again financial gain, for what ,? If this is not stopped shortly we will all be going outside the country to shoot our sport. Definetlly our grandchildren will not see a wild deer in the years to come. If so called hunters want to sell deer, limit each hunter to 10/20 deer per season and then tax their gains , I have been told of lads selling up to 150 animals per season legally, we as hunters/ sportsmen cannot leave this carry on , we need to do something, I don't have the answer but surely someone can suggest a remedy .

    Im putting the call out to any sportsperson who thinks we have a point to join us in this discussion . May be a mod could let other board shooters know what we are talking about?


  • #117
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    Again, I'm up for it, to do what I can. I think aside from discussing what should be done by the ptb etc, we need to get our arses up and start to lobby and push for change. We also need to be active on the ground, liasing with local garda and npws and the local communities that we shoot in.

    An national anti poaching alliance made of of concerned shooters and supported by linked organisations.

    Create a common approach for tackling poaching in an area.
    1) Meet with local rangers and garda.
    2) leaflet drops to local communities outlining the risks of poaching and how/who/when to report suspicions.
    3) clear and obvious signs posted around the area along the same lines as neighbourhood watch schemes, with links to website for info . Let poachers known that the area is being watched by locals, by shooters and by the garda fi
    4) If funds allow and if warranted, pay for professionals to gather sufficient information to gather and present to the authorities. Think about it, a conviction could save a hundred deer or more.
    4) some form of fund raising to help pay for the above and subsidise purchase of advertising, website production, leaflet drops etc. Could be made up of a combination of subscriptions and donations grants from concerned organisations etc.


    I'm deadly serious about this, we need to organise rather than sitting back and moaning on a website. I'd love to try this sort of thing on my local area (East cork!!!! The east cork anti poaching alliance, affiliated onto the national anti poaching alliance :-)).

    Then we get some TD's and start lobbying, get local councilors involved, use the threat of local elections to get them active, use the time we have in advance of the next election to get a group of interested TD's to work on out behalf.


  • #118
    Fries-With-That
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Fries-With-That


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    Again, I'm up for it, to do what I can. I think aside from discussing what should be done by the ptb etc, we need to get our arses up and start to lobby and push for change. We also need to be active on the ground, liasing with local garda and npws and the local communities that we shoot in.

    An national anti poaching alliance made of of concerned shooters and supported by linked organisations.

    Create a common approach for tackling poaching in an area.
    1) Meet with local rangers and garda.
    2) leaflet drops to local communities outlining the risks of poaching and how/who/when to report suspicions.
    3) clear and obvious signs posted around the area along the same lines as neighbourhood watch schemes, with links to website for info . Let poachers known that the area is being watched by locals, by shooters and by the garda fi
    4) If funds allow and if warranted, pay for professionals to gather sufficient information to gather and present to the authorities. Think about it, a conviction could save a hundred deer or more.
    4) some form of fund raising to help pay for the above and subsidise purchase of advertising, website production, leaflet drops etc. Could be made up of a combination of subscriptions and donations grants from concerned organisations etc.


    I'm deadly serious about this, we need to organise rather than sitting back and moaning on a website. I'd love to try this sort of thing on my local area (East cork!!!! The east cork anti poaching alliance, affiliated onto the national anti poaching alliance :-)).

    Then we get some TD's and start lobbying, get local councilors involved, use the threat of local elections to get them active, use the time we have in advance of the next election to get a group of interested TD's to work on out behalf.

    Time to put money where the mouth is lads, I think N.A.P.A (National Anti Poaching Alliance) is a\ good idea.

    I would have no problem putting up a sign or several in my area.

    €50 a head would buy a lot of signs if you got enough people interested.


  • #119
    grassroot1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    To an extent I agree with wexfordman2 but your trying to fight a battle on too many fronts. If we target one area first which is the sale of deer we would solve a lot of our problems. We really need to get all posters in one place to talk and form a plan of action, maybe some of our posters can organise an on line petition to test interest. If we do not act now deerstalking and true sportsmen will be the losers. We have had too many threads on this subject and too little action


  • #120
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    How do you target the sale of deer?

    I mean, apart from saying on a Web forum, we should target the sale of deer, how do you actually do it?

    You can't do it alone, one lad raising questions isn't enough, and may not know enough or have the expertise, time etc to do it.

    We need to band together on this, speak officially as one voice, and if one of the tactics is to target game dealing, then we need to be organised about how we do it.

    We need to be able to demonstrate that this is part of the lem, not just say it is. We need to be able to see and highlight dodgy practices if they exist, and we need to be able to relate poaching problems to the sale of carcasses to game dealers, if such a problem exists.

    It needs to be a multi faceted approach, tackling the conservation and preservation aspect, the criminality, safety and food risk side of it, the revenue loss aspect etc, and if we can relate these to specific poem areas such as selling if wild game then it creates a credible argument that few would find hard to argue against.

    THunk along the lines of the old 'copyright piracy is a crime' strategy where they linked what many people perceived as a minor or harmless enough crime, to organised crime and terror groups etc. Now I know the comparison is extreme, but if we can combine the overall impact of what many see a harmless victims less crime into a concise and we'll presented view of the real impact and risks, then we might start seeing some movement on all the other fronts, including getting revenue npws etc to look at the legal aspects of poaching and sale of carcasses etc.


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  • #121
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,324 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    [
    QUOTE=wexfordman2;88651111]Ag

    4) If funds allow and if warranted, pay for professionals to gather sufficient information to gather and present to the authorities. Think about it, a conviction could save a hundred deer or more.
    anti poaching alliance :-)). [/QUOTE

    I will gladly provide any training in surveillance tracking and evidence gathering to make it presentable to a court and such to any groups that organise for this for FREE!!buckshee ,gratis and nowt . All I'd ask in return is a tank of diesel to get me to wherever you are and home again.
    The people on the ground who know their areas are the best professionals once trained up properly and the cheapest too.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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