Sickened while stalking

DEMOLISHER

Didn't get em seem to no the area well just disapered into the wood but cop stated around most nite checking cars etc

wexfordman2

DEMOLISHER wrote: »

Didn't get em seem to no the area well just disapered into the wood but cop stated around most nite checking cars etc

Good to see the garda being that keen at least.

Hopefully it will have made the perpetrators a bit more hesitant in the future, but probably more Lilley just diverts g them to another area.

Dian Cecht

Isn't it a bad idea to be wondering around in woods at night where lads are shooting that might not be aware you are there?

shoot to kill

Lamping is only part of the problem. I know of a hunter that goes out almost every morning and he has 6 down last week that I know about and 2 this morning. That makes my blood boil. We'll not have to worry about it much longer cause deer will be a thing of the past. Bet u he'll have 50+ sold this year.

It'll be like the grouse, the next generation will have to look it up on the net and hear from old ones telling stories.

I was going to get one for the freezer for the end of the season and id nearly not bother.

4200fps

I've a crystal ball folks.
2016 we be buying magazines to look at deer, Rangers be doing the culling if any. There will be a ban on shooting wild deer nation wide imo. You wont be able to shoot a fox at night wait till you see, some poor innocent bugger is gonna go lamp for a fox and he will be minus his rifle in the head of deer poachers. Too risky shooting foxs anywhere near lands that hold deer. Foxs are getting well flaked too nation wide.

I've my doubts them deer were shot for a game dealer as they forgot the legs.

It may be for a private sale more than likely. The NWPS is as much to blame as any poacher. They hand out way way way too many deer licenses to areas that are dried up, some rangers on further note are looking for tracks not deer and licenses are issued. Wouldn't 3-5 deer using same pass daily leave alot of tracks. Most certainly. Tagging may help but not quite. You have private sales going on and deer being sold across the border to middle men who pay same price as game dealers here.

There is a recession its the problem, the game dealer is the biggest problem.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/rodney-times/9612818/Eyes-spy-from-space-Poachers-trigger-new-detector worth a read

wexfordman2

Seems by the sounds of it, little can be done?

I dunno, but if at this stage by the sounds of it, either we sit back and do nothing or once and for all organise together in some way and do something. I don't see any of the organisations really doing anything, so I got to thinking what would I do, what would I like to do or participate in etc, so a few ideas ran through my head, some I admit might be a bit mad, but I'm gonna throw em out there.

1) I'd be willing to contribute money to a non aligned organisation that was solely concerned with tackling poaching. (let's say ten euro a month membership or something g like that)
2)there would be conditions and expectations, it would need to be completely separate from any of the existing organisations for example.
3) it would need to be completely open and transparent about its finances, how much was raised, and what it was spent on.


What could/would it do

1)lobby and promote anti poaching measurss
2) formulate plans for targeting poaching in specific areas.
3) set up a poaching watch type organisation, similar in makeup to neighbourhood watch.
4) organise and distribute local marketing campaigns to I affected areas, including leaflet drops to rural areas where poaching is identified as a problem, provided ng information in the risks of poaching, how to identify it and who to contact should they suspect issues.
5) Distribute and create well recognised anti poaching signage, again similar to neighbourhood watch type setup.
6) pool rresources and technology for use by members for detection of poaching, eg, cameras, trail cams etc.
7) Be able to hire specialists to target identify and gather evidence against either K own poachers or areas of severe poaching.
8)liase with garda and npws on anti poaching measures.
9) engage professionals to investigate entities suspected of being involved in illegal transactions involving game.

Right, am insane or not, can a lot of this be done, assuming funding is available, and is it worth doing rather than sitting back and watching Rome burn?

Over 5000 deer permits issued per year, if we got just 20 percent of em to contribute 10 euro per month that's over a hundred grand to spend in measures like the above.

Perhaps get more funding from other interested parties, such as RFD's etc (they have a financial interest if I think else in ensuring poaching is put to an end)

rowa

As the vast majority of poached deer are sold to game dealers , surely if they are monitored by the npws/gardai and the inland revenue then the yaa-hoo's that are dropping of 60 and 70 deer a week can be targeted ? Putting a bag limit of 5 or 10 deer a season on the deer hunting licences would also knock it on the head.
Its only a matter of time before the poo hits the fan, some innocent is going to get shot or battered tackling these lowlifes, or accidentally shot by reckless shooting. I wouldn't be surprised to see a total lamping ban either.

wexfordman2

But the npws or the revenue don't seem to be doing it, how do we get them to start doing it?

marcp

rowa wrote: »

As the vast majority of poached deer are sold to game dealers , surely if they are monitored by the npws/gardai and the inland revenue then the yaa-hoo's that are dropping of 60 and 70 deer a week can be targeted ? Putting a bag limit of 5 or 10 deer a season on the deer hunting licences would also knock it on the head.
Its only a matter of time before the poo hits the fan, some innocent is going to get shot or battered tackling these lowlifes, or accidentally shot by reckless shooting. I wouldn't be surprised to see a total lamping ban either.

A bag limit wouldn't work for game dealers. They are making so much money out of venison they will always take deer in the back door.

They pay average €2.20 per kg just an average figure. Friend of mine is a butcher and a stalker and he rang a game dealer out of curiosity to see what it would cost for the shop to buy it in. €22 per kg. That's a difference of around €20 per kg.

Course he is going to take deer in the back door.

rowa

marcp wrote: »

A bag limit wouldn't work for game dealers. They are making so much money out of venison they will always take deer in the back door.

They pay average €2.20 per kg just an average figure. Friend of mine is a butcher and a stalker and he rang a game dealer out of curiosity to see what it would cost for the shop to buy it in. €22 per kg. That's a difference of around €20 per kg.

Course he is going to take deer in the back door.

What i meant was if every shooter had a limit of say 10 deer over a season, and an inspection of a gamedealers books showed a shooter had sold 20, then he has obviously broken the law and his deer/firearms licences should be revoked.

But €22 a kilo ? Its a wonder the crime gangs haven't ditched selling hard drugs and taken up poaching.

marcp

rowa wrote: »

What i meant was if every shooter had a limit of say 10 deer over a season, and an inspection of a gamedealers books showed a shooter had sold 20, then he has obviously broken the law and his deer/firearms licences should be revoked.

But €22 a kilo ? Its a wonder the crime gangs haven't ditched selling hard drugs and taken up poaching.

Sorry I picked you up wrong.

By doing that you would be hitting the stalker that's doing things right. Poachers don't leave paper trails in game dealers. Deer in. Cash out.

PL05

Been thinking about suggestions to combat poaching on here, and a couple of things fisma said made me think. If the npws charged 50 euro for license and theres 5000 issued thats 250000 euro. i dont know how many game dealers there are in the country but say there is 5 or 6. well thats enough money for 5 or 6 new officers wages for year assuming they,re paid approx 40000 a year. Now what i would suggest is, and it might sound mad i know, but here goes. combined with the tagging/number system that fisma spoke of and a cap on the amount of deer allowed be sold, maybe they could put some sort of security type hut on the entrances to these game establishments and check tagging numbers etc to the person presenting it and once your quota is up its up, this would mean that photo id would be tied in with your deer license the same as gun license. also, when a person sells a carcass to dealer a percentage of the amount paid, say 40% should be paid to npws to help fund more efforts to deal with this scurge. sounds mad but i rekon it would work and would make it less attractive for the greedy twats. Now i understand that a lot of people are straped for cash these days but 50 euro is a small price to pay for doing something you love doing and you never know it might help to stop these animals being wiped out.

PL05

marcp wrote: »

Sorry I picked you up wrong.

By doing that you would be hitting the stalker that's doing things right. Poachers don't leave paper trails in game dealers. Deer in. Cash out.

Not having a go at you, but i dont think anyone good or bad should be allowed to sell over 10 deer a season and if i had my way it would be less. so in my opinion a stalker thats doing things right should,nt kill that amount anyway.

marcp

PL05 wrote: »

Not having a go at you, but i dont think anyone good or bad should be allowed to sell over 10 deer a season and if i had my way it would be less. so in my opinion a stalker thats doing things right should,nt kill that amount anyway.

No I disagree with you there. I have good friends which are serious stalkers. They spend 3 to 4 grand on there leases. All they do is shoot every weekend. They respect their woods. Don't shoot hinds, keep within there culls.

They could shoot 30 to 40 animals per year all within there cull limits and all proper cull animals . There freezers are full and they bring animals to game dealers aswell. In my opinion they are perfectly entitled to do this. I would do it myself if the wife would let me.

So there is exceptions out there.

grassroot1

If you want to stop poaching you have to take the money out of the equation, and that means for everybody. That said I cannot understand why revenue are not following gamedealers and suppliers up more.

PL05

marcp wrote: »

No I disagree with you there. I have good friends which are serious stalkers. They spend 3 to 4 grand on there leases. All they do is shoot every weekend. They respect their woods. Don't shoot hinds, keep within there culls.

They could shoot 30 to 40 animals per year all within there cull limits and all proper cull animals . There freezers are full and they bring animals to game dealers aswell. In my opinion they are perfectly entitled to do this. I would do it myself if the wife would let me.

So there is exceptions out there.

sorry lad and with respect. a lot of people pay big money for leases and dont shoot that many deer. Interesting that you say they dont shoot hinds, so there season ends at the end of december? and all they shoot is stags and antlerless deer, thats a lot of stags which by the way would have little effect on the population in a paticular area. They must have a hugh area to be shooting that amount of stags as average culls go on leases. As said im not having a go at you. But capping the amount allowed be sold can only do good for the herds and if your friends have the respect you say have they would surely understand.

marcp

PL05 wrote: »

sorry lad and with respect. a lot of people pay big money for leases and dont shoot that many deer. Interesting that you say they dont shoot hinds, so there season ends at the end of december? and all they shoot is stags and antlerless deer, thats a lot of stags which by the way would have little effect on the population in a paticular area. They must have a hugh area to be shooting that amount of stags as average culls go on leases. As said im not having a go at you. But capping the amount allowed be sold can only do good for the herds and if your friends have the respect you say have they would surely understand.

No they shoot all season. Calfs after new year which is never many. The rule they go by is, no hinds and no animals that could be in calf.

For example I'm hoping to bid on a wood next season, it's 2 woods on one lease and the cull is 30 on it. 30 is a massive number on a lease. Could you imagine a couple of gob****es getting that lease. That to them would be an invite to shoot a minimum of 30 animals bucks, does prickets, calfs. If it moves I'd say it would be shot.

PL05

Capercaille wrote: »

In Wicklow Red Deer were heavily hunted. When the numbers became low, hybridization with Sika occurred. Red deer will preferably mate with other Red Deer, but if very few of their own species are around they will mate with Sika. Sika and Red are very closely related.

If Red Deer are heavily hunted in Kerry they would likely hybidize. Luckily Kerry Deer are off the quarry list now, but poaching still occurs.

exactly. see what over hunting can cause......

Downwind

snipe49 wrote: »

I'm afraid it's a case of the same thing that put this country in the hole it's in. GREED.There will be no dear left in the wild soon . some might say that would be a good thing. But with so little wild life in this country we do need them. Here in the west there is a dealer giving 100 euro a animal. so lad's are out all night lamping them. one gun was said to have shot 280 deer last year. Yes GREED..

Have to agree with Snipe49. When Ive to travel anywhere I tend to try an get a bus and its so I can look into fields do some spotting. This time of year Id spot a couple of pheasants maybe a hare ,and often a young fox. Id stalk deer too but normally only if a farmer asked me too . Last year the fodder crisis turned up the pressure a bit on the deer. Any way the GREED vs FEED debate . Yeah lot of our Deer are gone, shot out of season , dealers, fellas with time on their hands etc. Dont have the answer but any of the younger fellas I meet tend to be well trained HCAP etc and like us all have an interest in nature. I suppose we all have an idea of who's not playing by the rules but is it our job to stop em or is it someone else?

wexfordman2

It's certainly not our job to stop em, but not enough been done, so person I think we should be doing more.

Downwind

wexfordman2 wrote: »

It's certainly not our job to stop em, but not enough been done, so person I think we should be doing more.

Yeah Id be sorry in time if it all went the way of the doedoe. The lads who got caught there lately seemed to have been punished but is it enough to put people off. I can tell you something for nothing round here people have no problem ringing the Guards when they hear shooting at night.

grassroot1

Well lets start doing something, if the posters on here contacted their hunting organisation by email or letter we will get action. Don't think that if you do not shoot deer it wont affect you, it will because the doj will ban all lamping or curb firearm certs. Contact your county body and get this issue on the agenda you may be pushing an open door in some cases.

Downwind

grassroot1 wrote: »

Well lets start doing something, if the posters on here contacted their hunting organisation by email or letter we will get action. Don't think that if you do not shoot deer it wont affect you, it will because the doj will ban all lamping or curb firearm certs. Contact your county body and get this issue on the agenda you may be pushing an open door in some cases.

I have no problem with that. Also its not just the deer issue. The general public are a bit windy down this way and its due to the fact that the general public know that high cal rifles are being used at night by people who may not be as well trained or competent or just plain stupid taking risk shots into the darkness. So yeah Id be prepared to step up to the mark.

coolbeans

wexfordman2 wrote: »

It's certainly not our job to stop em, but not enough been done, so person I think we should be doing more.

Reporting those known to each one of us to be poaching would be a start. Too many people turn a blind eye cos they.re afraid to be seen to be "rats". To hell with that colonial attitude. No poacher is a friend of mine no matter how "genuine" others think him to be.
Saying it's not my job or business a copout. Your nation's wildlife is your business. Npws have limited resources and need public assistance.

coolbeans

Downwind wrote: »

Have to agree with Snipe49. When Ive to travel anywhere I tend to try an get a bus and its so I can look into fields do some spotting. This time of year Id spot a couple of pheasants maybe a hare ,and often a young fox. Id stalk deer too but normally only if a farmer asked me too . Last year the fodder crisis turned up the pressure a bit on the deer. Any way the GREED vs FEED debate . Yeah lot of our Deer are gone, shot out of season , dealers, fellas with time on their hands etc. Dont have the answer but any of the younger fellas I meet tend to be well trained HCAP etc and like us all have an interest in nature. I suppose we all have an idea of who's not playing by the rules but is it our job to stop em or is it someone else?

Good point. It's our job as citizens. No question.

Downwind

coolbeans wrote: »

Reporting those known to each one of us to be poaching would be a start. Too many people turn a blind eye cos they.re afraid to be seen to be "rats". To hell with that colonial attitude. No poacher is a friend of mine no matter how "genuine" others think him to be.
Saying it's not my job or business a copout. Your nation's wildlife is your business. Npws have limited resources and need public assistance.

Yeah you know Im getting the picture. We invest time money into equipment training , some people here make a living from field sports as for hire stalkers and others as pest control .We all have a reason to protect this relatively free resource.

PL05

I said this before on here. its up to everyone to look after they,re permissions and maybe its time that we all put a bit of extra time in and check on them at night but its easier said than done. you have to ask your self do any farmers/landowners turn a blind eye to this. Also would you be prepared to approach suspected poachers, which could be a dangerous thing to do, lets face it these p***ks dont want to be caught it would be interesting to know how many calls are made re poaching by landowners. it could be a good idea to ring the local station appropriate to your permission and let them know what your intentions are and that you,ll be calling them back if anything suspicious is going on. would be interesting to see what their reaction would be to that also.

coolbeans

PL05 wrote: »

I said this before on here. its up to everyone to look after they,re permissions and maybe its time that we all put a bit of extra time in and check on them at night but its easier said than done. you have to ask your self do any farmers/landowners turn a blind eye to this. Also would you be prepared to approach suspected poachers, which could be a dangerous thing to do, lets face it these p***ks dont want to be caught it would be interesting to know how many calls are made re poaching by landowners. it could be a good idea to ring the local station appropriate to your permission and let them know what your intentions are and that you,ll be calling them back if anything suspicious is going on. would be interestinjeg to see what their reaction would be to that also.

I'd generally avoid approaching people directly especially as the are engaged in a criminal act and have guns. You'd just never know. I'd just "happen" upon them so to speak with the video cam on my phone going getting number plates and any other evidence. No need for confrontation if you're smart about it.

Downwind

PL05 wrote: »

I said this before on here. its up to everyone to look after they,re permissions and maybe its time that we all put a bit of extra time in and check on them at night but its easier said than done. you have to ask your self do any farmers/landowners turn a blind eye to this. Also would you be prepared to approach suspected poachers, which could be a dangerous thing to do, lets face it these p***ks dont want to be caught it would be interesting to know how many calls are made re poaching by landowners. it could be a good idea to ring the local station appropriate to your permission and let them know what your intentions are and that you,ll be calling them back if anything suspicious is going on. would be interesting to see what their reaction would be to that also.

I think this is a really interesting number of point's. I dont think Id go face to face with a poacher but id get the reg and make the call. On my permissions the lads would bell me if some one was around to see if it was me . In the past I've got a better response from our local ranger who then contacts the Guards . But I going to ring my local Guard tomorrow and tell him this is what Im going to do. Ill report back the reaction.

Downwind

PL05 wrote: »

I said this before on here. its up to everyone to look after they,re permissions and maybe its time that we all put a bit of extra time in and check on them at night but its easier said than done. you have to ask your self do any farmers/landowners turn a blind eye to this. Also would you be prepared to approach suspected poachers, which could be a dangerous thing to do, lets face it these p***ks dont want to be caught it would be interesting to know how many calls are made re poaching by landowners. it could be a good idea to ring the local station appropriate to your permission and let them know what your intentions are and that you,ll be calling them back if anything suspicious is going on. would be interesting to see what their reaction would be to that also.

That's another thing most if not all of the farmers I know are delighted to have the number of a trained and certified Deer Stalker in their phone, I've been asked to clear feral goats, take out dogs chasing sheep, and I've found in the past when I need to apply to National Parks and Wildlife for the licence all of the lads just tell me to resubmit last years letter, there's no drama .So I think the farmers we all know value us just as much as we value the permissions. So all we are discussing is enhancing our collective sense of responsibility and reinforcing our professionalism.