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staring at disabled people?

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭Mint Aero


    "Avert your gaze! He's disabled!" I stare at everyone, I try to mind read too and I give people funny voices and imagine what they're saying to themselves about stuff.

    Like today I was very amused to see 5 strangers standing together in a crowd wearing identical superdry jackets. I stared the sh*t out of em *scoffs*

    Fat people I stare at for bit of comedy. Watching them wobble along bouncing off everything and breathing heavily. Why do people choose to live like that?! *scoffs*


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    I don't think there's anything wrong with someone looking at someone with a disability but not staring. No malice is intended - it's just a gut reaction. What I can't understand is cruel jokes about disabled people - not light-hearted ones (which I think are good for helping break down barriers) but just nasty Frankie Boyle kinda stuff, which is only enjoyment at belittling an easy target, nothing more.

    And in reference to something mentioned earlier, no, it is not confined to a particular "socio-economic group".


  • Site Banned Posts: 50 ✭✭hatchets mcgovern


    uch wrote: »
    When it's something you're not used to, you'll stare.,, get over it

    so you will stare at a disabled person?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭lillycool


    For anyone who has worked with people with a disability or has a family member with a disability some of the comments on here are mind-boggling. I know it's probably a gut reaction and curiosity but remember sometimes (depending on the disability) the person may be trying to control their movements and cope with a strange environment. They have enough to be dealing with besides people staring. It would be nice for people to try and control their gut reaction to stare if they are that way inclined. And no it's not about ignoring anyone, its rude to stare at anyone never mind a disabled person.

    Disability is actually on the increase (world health organisation) that's a whole other potential discussion/definition of disability and contributing factors but possible upcoming EU legislation on the accessibility of goods and services may help to change perceptions.

    European Disability Forum Calls on the European Commission to Deliver a Legislative Proposal On the Accessibility of Goods and Services.
    http://www.kanchi.org/blog/european-disability-forum-calls-on-the-european-commission-to-deliver-a-legislative-proposal-on-the-accessibility-of-goods-and-services


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't know what way people will take this but when I think of people staring at disabled people I look at it like staring at a tiger or some exotic animal that you don't see everyday. If you saw one of those animals walking down the street you'd stare at them. That's why I think people stare at disabled people. People look out of curiousity even though it's rude.

    I probably didn't word that too well to avoid offending the nit pickers.

    As for the mocking, yeah that's just pathetic.

    I am with this one. The mocking - the discrimination - even the actual outright HATE - have to go.

    But the staring - I realize it is uncomfortable - but it is part of the process. If you EVER want to get full social understanding from society then you have to be SEEN. And I realize this goes against everything "lillycool" wrote above - and I feel for every word of that post - but you have to realize that the only way to "normalise" anything is to MAKE it "normal". You can not stop the starting - you can only use it.

    People are not so supportive of the life hindrances the able bodied and the able minded have because we simply do not see them. And when we see them we stare. Even some one like me who works with people such as that every month will still spot a stand out case in a crowd.

    So be seen and realize you will be looked at. And even if that is not the ideal realize it is a fact we can live with and work with - and not feel rage about. Simply by being seen you are furthering every cause.

    But like that hideous "man up" campaign - all we can do with the mockers and the tools is be ready to stand up to heads like that and say simply "no man - thats not cool".


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  • Registered Users Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Frito


    My kid sis has used a wheelchair for the past 24 years due to cerebral palsy. It was pretty common for her to be stared at. Kids she didn't mind, but she hated being stared at by adults. It's the height of ignorance. She would challenge anyone staring at her with "if you've got a question just ask".
    It's much better nowadays. People do come up and speak to her about being a wheelchair user, and luckily it's not "so what's wrong with you then?".


  • Registered Users Posts: 811 ✭✭✭cassid


    Its always better if someone asks you, I have a wee lad with mild cp, it obvious by his walking that he has issues with movement, he just tells people thats how he was born, and that he is a brave guy, cause he survived against the odds. I told him when he was little that he was created special so God could see him more clearly from heaven- I don't believe in God or heaven but he loved the story and still uses it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    When i started wearing glasses for the first time i thought everyone was staring at me.. but it turned out it was just me being paranoid because i hadn't accepted my appearance of me with my glasses on. Maybe you're just paranoid that people are staring because you don't accept him?


    finally getting some use out of this **** stirring kit i got for christmas. thanks santa


  • Registered Users Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Frito


    Maybe you're just paranoid that people are staring because you don't accept him?


    finally getting some use out of this **** stirring kit i got for christmas. thanks santa

    That's quite an assumption to make, and unfounded too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭Corkgirl210


    Ive a niece in a wheelchair and when I am wheeling her along.. people do stare.. and keep their eyes on her.. :confused:
    it bugs me.. but not because I don't accept her but because they don't treat her normal.. some ppl even ask me.. whats wrong with her? she then answers... sorry but I am here and you can ask me? she has accepted her disability fully and never complains so I think those who glare, stare and talk down to her actually have the disability and not her. She is okay with judgement it's others who are not! :rolleyes:

    her favourite saying is:

    DONT LOOK DOWN ON ME UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO GIVE ME A HAND UP! :p


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  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There seems to be some conflation between 'looking' and 'staring'.

    To look:
    verb
    [no object, usually with adverbial of direction]
    direct one’s gaze in a specified direction

    To stare:
    verb
    [no object]
    look fixedly or vacantly at someone or something with one’s eyes wide open


    Looking at someone IS normal, but looking fixedly and vacantly at someone isn't acceptable, whether the object of the stare is disabled or not. It's not part of any process.


  • Administrators Posts: 13,809 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    I have a CP friend. She always says that kids will stare, and ask outright questions, whilst adults will drag them away pretending she doesn't exist! She's part of a dance group based in Cork and calls it "Stop & Stare". She said it allows adults to stare at her (and her friends) without feeling guilty about it!

    She knows she's "different". She knows people, not just kids, are curious about her. If she's not offended by people starting at her, why should others be offended on her behalf?!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAj_TlsERv0


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭Big C


    Best way to avoid people staring or even looking at me in my wheelchair is to have a collection box for your annual flag day, amazing the number of people who not only avoid looking your way but nearly get them selves killed crossing the street to avoid you


  • Site Banned Posts: 50 ✭✭hatchets mcgovern


    I have a CP friend. She always says that kids will stare, and ask outright questions, whilst adults will drag them away pretending she doesn't exist! She's part of a dance group based in Cork and calls it "Stop & Stare". She said it allows adults to stare at her (and her friends) without feeling guilty about it!

    She knows she's "different". She knows people, not just kids, are curious about her. If she's not offended by people starting at her, why should others be offended on her behalf?!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAj_TlsERv0

    Great video! She's really pretty too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    Before he died, and before he got too bad, my aul fella was in a wheelchair if we went out in public.

    I also had an uncle who was completely blind and it was obvious from looking at him that he was also physically disabled in other ways.

    Now when I see a person in a wheelchair or somebody who reminds me of my uncle i do look, I admit it. But it's more in a way to see how the person or the carer is managing - my dad was as light as a sparrow but I still found the wheelchair and manouvereing him difficult.

    I do the same with breast feeding mothers too. I think I'm giving them a look of support and friendship, but I dunno..... maybe smiles from strangers freaks them out???


  • Registered Users Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Frito


    I don't think anyone is offended by people staring at performance artists, or by asking questions.
    For me it becomes an issue when the disability is stared at, with no acknowledgement of the person, during everyday situations.

    Of course that doesn't mean that every disabled person wants to be a learning experience for the general population at every opportunity. (I'm recalling the time my sis was asked how she happened to be in a wheelchair, and her reply was "well not by minding my own ****ing business"-she was having a bad day.) My opinion would be; don't stare, particularly if you wouldn't converse with the person who has the disability you're staring at.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭miralize


    Frito wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is offended by people staring at performance artists, or by asking questions.
    For me it becomes an issue when the disability is stared at, with no acknowledgement of the person, during everyday situations.

    Of course that doesn't mean that every disabled person wants to be a learning experience for the general population at every opportunity. (I'm recalling the time my sis was asked how she happened to be in a wheelchair, and her reply was "well not by minding my own ****ing business"-she was having a bad day.) My opinion would be; don't stare, particularly if you wouldn't converse with the person who has the disability you're staring at.

    And the disabled are performance artists?


  • Registered Users Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Frito


    miralize wrote: »
    And the disabled are performance artists?


    In response to post 103, YouTube link to a woman with cerebral palsy who was part of a dance group. Forgot to quote in my post.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    People need to lighten up. Get this thread some lamps


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    miralize wrote: »
    And the disabled are performance artists?

    Some of them are...see big bag of chips post above, unless you are discriminating agsinst them and think they are incapable of joining a performace group?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭shane9689


    reminds me of breaking bad where the son has cerebral palsy and other kids start to mock him in a clothes store....then the dad (walt) breaks the other kids legs. they soon shut up.....i advice breaking some legs


  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭shleedance


    If I see someone who is disabled, ie. in a wheelchair, I will most likely at least quickly glance while walking on the first time. I don't rudely stop and take a long stare. I don't glance afterwards since in my mind that person is no longer "strange" and thus just another person in the town. I would only take notice if a person had a gun, or were obviously dangerous in another form.

    I do get curious if I see someone who is "different" to me, something I don't like admitting to. I speculate we humans are not instinctively wired to ignore difference, so curiosity is one of the natural responses. Sadly fear is too, which is were a lot of discrimination comes from. This probably would be useful at stone age times since it depended on your survival, but not today. The problem is however is that since we still have those instincts, they're not catching up with today's ideals of equality etc. Technology and society is moving far faster than our own evolution.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    shane9689 wrote: »
    reminds me of breaking bad where the son has cerebral palsy and other kids start to mock him in a clothes store....then the dad (walt) breaks the other kids legs. they soon shut up.....i advice breaking some legs


    That's a bad break, not breaking bad! :p

    I think for me Frito hit the nail on the head when they said that people are staring at the disability and not at the person, and even in her own example of her sister it shows that yet again, most people with disabilities don't want to be pitied, they like to be treated with the same dignity and respect as everyone else. Some people then want to claim offense on behalf of disabled people because they're looking for things to be offended about. If mirialize had taken the time to read BBOC's post, they would've seen that Frito's post was referring to BBOC's friend who uses the opportunity as a performance artist to educate people about cerebal palsy. Instead of course, they missed that because they were looking to be offended and took Frito up completely wrong. That sort of shìt annoys me tbh.

    I personally don't get offended when people stare, I just tend to take no notice and get on with what I'm doing. If you start staring back at everyone who stares at you, you'll spend more time staring back at people than you will getting on with your own life.

    I myself suffer from arthritis (my body is riddled), and the pain meds make me pure dopey, so I try to stay off them, but the consequence of that of course is that I'm in constant pain, and I fall over a lot because my balance is fcuked. But at this stage, something like this occasion isn't an unusual occurrence -

    Czarcasm wrote: »
    I'm a clumsy fcuk at the best of times, but Jesus fcuking christ, "glass" pavements are an absolute curse! :mad:

    I mean a pain in the hole, literally, when your walking along and your legs go out from under you all of a sudden. Luckily I've managed the art of falling gracefully and broke my fall with my elbow, and it was just pure damn luck that I hopped off the pavement and bounced back up into an almost standing position!

    The expression on the girl's face coming towards me was priceless as it all happened so quickly and I was already walking on as if nothing had happened :pac:

    We got a few yards on before the young lad started breaking his hole laughing, and that started me off, the pair of us must have looked like right nut jobs! :D


    And just recently I went to the doc with a pain in my eyeball that was at me for the last couple of weeks. Turned out it was uveitis related to the arthritis, so now I'm wearing an eye patch for the next couple of weeks, and in fairness, it's kind of hard to miss! :pac: But what actually bugs me is the likes of my brother the other day who used be a nurse (we were out for dinner Christmas eve having not talked in a good many years, whole other long story), and all he could talk about was my fcuking eyeball and how I could go blind (well thanks for the heads up Sherlock!), and tell the doc my old man had sarcoidosis, etc (his body too was riddled with arthritis). I just felt like telling my brother "Look, I'm your brother that you haven't talked to in years, not one of your damn patients!", but I bit my tongue for the sake of keeping the peace!

    My point being anyway that I think it's the "pity stare" that gets on people's tits, or the "freak show" stare that Quazzie was getting at earlier when he tried to say I was saying that all physically and intellectually disabled people should stay at home or be locked up, etc. That sort of high horse nonsense pisses me off, but I wasn't going to get into a pissing contest about my experience working with people with physical and intellectual disabilities. I actually have some great memories going back over 20 years from the likes of the lads in St. Raphaels (tweedle dum and tweedle dee, two of the funniest fcukers who would talk the ears off an elephant, or one chap who put my head through a transit van window because I couldn't understand that he was happy with the taytos I'd just given him, didn't want an apple! My mate said "Leave him alone now Czarcasm, he'll get frustrated... did I listen? Did I fcuk! "Ah we're grand, he won't... *BOOM*, he punched my head through the window! :pac:), to the people I work with today with various physical and intellectual disabilities and helping them to use computers, tablets and phone apps to help them communicate with the world around them and express themselves.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 645 ✭✭✭loveBBhate


    If staring is rude, it begs the question; is it rude in a situation (for example) for men to stare at a woman's breasts if she's wearing a low cut top and has a great set of TITTIES DIDDIES. Does it depend on whether the women loves her SOOTHERS and doesn't mind the attention or if the staring bothers her and sees her onlookers as rude perverts?! How do we decide what is deemed rude and unacceptable, curious or acceptable.


  • Posts: 50,630 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    loveBBhate wrote: »
    If staring is rude, it begs the question; is it rude in a situation (for example) for men to stare at a woman's breasts if she's wearing a low cut top and has a great set of TITTIES DIDDIES. Does it depend on whether the women loves her SOOTHERS and doesn't mind the attention or if the staring bothers her and sees her onlookers as rude perverts?! How do we decide what is deemed rude and unacceptable, curious or acceptable.

    Mod

    Don't troll this forum please, and don't post in this thread again.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 645 ✭✭✭loveBBhate


    Mod

    Don't troll this forum please, and don't post in this thread again.

    Ok, sorry, I ate lots of sweets and I'm a sugar-hyper bastid at the moment, lol x

    Mod edit: banned


  • Administrators Posts: 13,809 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Frito wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is offended by people staring at performance artists, or by asking questions.
    For me it becomes an issue when the disability is stared at, with no acknowledgement of the person, during everyday situations

    My friend became a performing artist to "allow" adults to stare at her! That's her whole point. She spent her life having kids whisked away from her for fear they'd say something that would embarrass their parents (note not embarrass my friend!) So her whole point of being part of this group is it gives adults "permission" to stare at her, and ask the questions that they otherwise would be too embarrassed to ask.

    She loves the honesty of children, and will happily smile or wave at any child who stares at her... It's the adults who are uncomfortable, not the children and not her.

    That's her point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭stpaddy99


    stranegly though the discrimination against disabled people , not just staring but name calling and even physical intimidation and abuse....seems to get far less media attention than all other forms of discrimination, when in fact its probably thw rose of the lot. especially as these are vulnerable people often unable to protect themselves....theres not even a word for it? sexism is sexism? racism is racism? anti semitism is racism against jews...ageism is age discrimination....whats discrimination against the disabled called?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    stpaddy99 wrote: »
    stranegly though the discrimination against disabled people , not just staring but name calling and even physical intimidation and abuse....seems to get far less media attention than all other forms of discrimination, when in fact its probably thw rose of the lot. especially as these are vulnerable people often unable to protect themselves....theres not even a word for it? sexism is sexism? racism is racism? anti semitism is racism against jews...ageism is age discrimination....whats discrimination against the disabled called?


    I think it's perception bias paddy that has you think disabilities don't get as much media attention as other minorities and vulnerable people in society. Ask anyone who is a member of a minority or vulnerable section of society and they'll tell you their particular issue doesn't get enough attention in the media.

    There are a few different terms though for discrimination on the grounds of physical or intellectual disability - ableism, disablism, and discrimination on the grounds of intellectual disability is called mentalism.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Frito


    My friend became a performing artist to "allow" adults to stare at her! That's her whole point. She spent her life having kids whisked away from her for fear they'd say something that would embarrass their parents (note not embarrass my friend!) So her whole point of being part of this group is it gives adults "permission" to stare at her, and ask the questions that they otherwise would be too embarrassed to ask.

    She loves the honesty of children, and will happily smile or wave at any child who stares at her... It's the adults who are uncomfortable, not the children and not her.

    That's her point.

    That's fair enough, I certainly wouldn't get offended on your friend's behalf if I caught someone gawking at her in the street!

    I still maintain my position that staring should be avoided, unless (as by your friend's example) you are invited to.


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