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Zodiac; the best film of the past 10 years? If not, what is?

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    #242
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    e_e wrote: »
    Why do you think Roger Ebert had guests on his show all the time? I think he's a great critic but not the all-seeing movie eye that you see him as. Like it or not just because he has an opinion does not make it gospel, hell he disliked many films that were popular both critically and financially.

    And the dozens of other critics that loved it?

    They're all wrong too?

    And the 8/10 from close to 500k IMDB users? They're all wrong?

    But hey, at least we know who to go to now for the definitive word of a films quality.


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    #243
    e_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    And the dozens of other critics that loved it?

    They're all wrong too?

    And the 8/10 from close to 500k IMDB users? They're all wrong?

    But hey, at least we know who to go to now for the definitive word of a films quality.
    I'm not calling anyone "wrong"! That's the whole point here! :confused:


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    #244
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    e_e wrote: »
    I think you really need to be schooled in subjectivity.

    As much as you believe in your heart that everything is subjective, you know in your head it's not.

    Rebecca Black is not as good as the Beatles, even if someone says they think she is.

    Not every opinion is as valid as every other.

    And thank god for that.

    You just need to accept that you dislike something good. Everyone does. It's ok.

    What NOT ok is pretending that simply because YOU think something then it's definitely valid.

    That's just not the case.


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    #245
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    You're not going to change mine either.

    So the point of arguing about it is... What?

    No-one is trying to change your opinion.
    We're just asking you to give yours, like e_e's gave theirs. Not some critics. You dont have any by the looks of it, other than think what you're told.
    You havent given one reason why you like this film other than "well, the critics like it so it must be good".
    You've dismissed people's reasoning as "youre wrong . simples".
    As you said, there is no point in having an argument about it.
    Mostly because you cant put forward one. Simples.


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    #246
    e_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    As much as you believe in your heart that everything is subjective, you know in your head it's not.

    Rebecca Black is not as good as the Beatles, even if someone says they think she is.

    Not every opinion is as valid as every other.

    And thank god for that.

    You just need to accept that you dislike something good. Everyone does. It's ok.

    What NOT ok is pretending that simply because YOU think something then it's definitely valid.

    That's just not the case.
    This is exactly why I elaborated on why I think the film is terrible. I'm not pulling this out of my arse.


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    #247
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    e_e wrote: »
    I'm not calling anyone "wrong"! That's the whole point here! :confused:

    Well you are obviously.

    You said it was ****e.

    It can't be both ****e and great.

    If its ****e then all the people that think its great are NECESSARILY wrong.


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    #248
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    e_e wrote: »
    This is exactly why I elaborated on why I think the film is terrible. I'm not pulling this out of my arse.

    Being able to vaguely defend your dodgy opinion doesn't make your opinion any less dodgy.

    Many people smarter than the both of us have defended much more dubious things, like slavery or eugenics, and yet we know for a fact that their opinions were wrong.

    EDIT: I hope you don't actually think that anti-slavery campaigners just have an opinion. Because you knew, some people ARE pro-slavery and "everything is subjective". Tell me you know some opinions are wrong.


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    #249
    e_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    Well you are obviously.

    You said it was ****e.

    It can't be both ****e and great.

    If its ****e then all the people that think its great are NECESSARILY wrong.
    Film isn't as black and white as this. Which is why I brought up arguments that could very well be countered by others.

    You're putting an implication on my posts that isn't there. I'm not so shallow and arrogant to dismiss somebody's subjective response out of hand as "you're wrong!", I'm not you.


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    #250
    Everlong1
    Registered Users Posts: 884 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm sorry I know a lot of people disagree with me but I just don't see the appeal of Lost in Translation. I thought it was awful :( & I love Bill Murray!

    I second the above. Two hours of meandering nonsense.


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    #251
    e_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    Being able to vaguely defend your dodgy opinion doesn't make your opinion any less dodgy.

    Many people smarter than the both of us have defended much more dubious things, like slavery or eugenics, and yet we know for a fact that their opinions were wrong.
    Now we're getting to the heart of it, please explain to me why everyone else is RIGHT. I've made my case, the responsibility is now on you to prove me otherwise.


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    #252
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    e_e wrote: »
    Film isn't as black and white as this. Which is why I brought up arguments that could very well be countered by others.

    You're putting an implication on my posts that isn't there. I'm not so shallow and arrogant to dismiss somebody's subjective response out of hand as "you're wrong!", I'm not you.

    Sorry, but you've done just that.

    You obviously think, and have said repeatedly, that SM is a bad film.

    That puts you in the position of judging others opinions as indeed calling their "wrong".


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    #253
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    e_e wrote: »
    Now we're getting to the heart of it, please explain to me why everyone else is RIGHT. I've made my case, the responsibility is now on you to prove me otherwise.

    I'll allow the dozens of critics and hundreds of reviews to clear that up for you.

    But even if you go read then all you'll probably not change your opinion.

    We've literally had as much meaningful discussion as possible about this.


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    #254
    e_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    This is getting ridiculously out of hand now, but using your own strange strange logic slavery was once the norm, and the few that were going against it were the anomoly. Did that make slavery right, and if it didn't then why are you certain that the majority opinion is so right now?


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    #255
    loveBBhate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 645 ✭✭✭loveBBhate


    This thread seems to have gotten Lost in Translation.


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    #256
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,147 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    This is perhaps the single most frustrating, bizarre exchange I've ever read on this forum. I think everyone needs to just step away from the keyboard - I wholeheartedly agree with one side of the argument (no points for guessing which!) but I'd have calmly withdrawn a few pages ago :pac:


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    #257
    e_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    I'll allow the dozens of critics and hundreds of reviews to clear that up for you.

    But even if you go read then all you'll probably not change your opinion.

    We've literally had as much meaningful discussion as possible about this.
    If you are unwilling to use a discussion forum to its purpose then there's nothing I can do here. I was trying to open up a dialog by giving my (admittedly unpopular) opinion on Slumdog but unfortunately few are willing to properly engage.


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    #258
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    e_e wrote: »
    If you are unwilling to use a discussion forum to its purpose then there's nothing I can do here. I was trying to open up a dialog by giving my (admittedly unpopular) opinion on Slumdog but unfortunately few are willing to properly engage.

    Sorry if your attempts to argue about your dodgy opinion have been frustrated.

    It should be fairly obvious to everyone that you have no interest in modifying your opinion and any discussion of your opinion wouldn't be meaningful or productive, but just a chance for you defend the basically indefensible.

    It's ok to have unpopular opinions, but don't expect people to consider them intrinsically valuable, simply because you've chosen to express them.


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    #259
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    e_e wrote: »
    If you are unwilling to use a discussion forum to its purpose then there's nothing I can do here. I was trying to open up a dialog by giving my (admittedly unpopular) opinion on Slumdog but unfortunately few are willing to properly engage.

    I just gotta laugh.

    We're having a discussion you know. And frankly one with more merit than the one you'd like to have.


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    #260
    e_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    Take it to PM please, you've derailed this thread far enough.


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    #261
    Mousewar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    I'm struggling to think of a better film than 'A Single Man' in the last ten years.


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    #262
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    e_e wrote: »
    Take it to PM please, you've derailed this thread far enough.

    Says the guy that started the entire discussion

    We can continue this on PM but I doubt it's gonna end well


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    #263
    shamrock55
    Registered Users Posts: 7,208 ✭✭✭shamrock55


    On that list id say mystic river or the departed, i didt think much of zodiac tbh it was only ok


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    #264
    ThirdMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭ThirdMan


    No Country For Old Men is a very good film, but killing the lead character off-screen was a very poor decision. The Coen's made McCarthy's ending, which was already bad, even worse.


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    #265
    Conbhar
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭Conbhar


    Cannot for the life of me pick between Zodiac, Oldboy, Downfall, Apocalypto, Children Of Men, Into The Wild, Brick, Zatoichi or The Loved Ones. Saying that if someone had a gun to my head I'd probably go with Oldboy with The Loved Ones a very close second.


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    #266
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,158 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    ThirdMan wrote: »
    No Country For Old Men is a very good film, but killing the lead character off-screen was a very poor decision. The Coen's made McCarthy's ending, which was already bad, even worse.

    He wasn't the lead character. ;)


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    #267
    kop-end
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭kop-end


    flip between Gone Baby Gone and Into The Wild....

    so I'm gonna go with Mystic River.


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    #268
    ThirdMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭ThirdMan


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    He wasn't the lead character. ;)

    His decision-making drives the entire plot and he has quite a large (if not the largest) amount of screen time. The theme of the film is centred around Bell, but for me Moss is the lead character. I know what you're saying though. It's a very good point.

    By the way, have you read this? It's a good analysis (although I don't agree with it).


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    #269
    123 LC
    Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭123 LC


    Just watched Zodiac after reading this thread, and to be honest don't understand the hype. I thought it was very drawn out, and for me it seemed like an extended episode of CSI or one of those shows - without the satisfaction of the killer being caught (I understand he wasn't caught in real life :P). Just found it boring to be honest.


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    #270
    Den_M
    Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Den_M


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Oh god no, it has got to be one of, if not the most boring drawn out pile of shíte of a film I have ever had the misfortune to endure. Words can not express how much I hated it!
    How is it possible for a bad ass stunt driver come getaway wheelman to be so god damn boring? How is that even possible?
    ,

    Looks like you're in the minority there, pal. As far as I'm concerned, a film has a few different elements to manipulate to its advantage. Drive looks great, sounds great, has a great cast, has an interesting plot, is very stylish, has some really affecting moments...the question is not why would I choose it as my top film for the decade, it's why did you decide to hate on it?


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    #271
    blade1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,149 ✭✭✭✭blade1


    Not the best, but for me definitely worth a mention..
    Training Day.


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