Formula 1 2013: General Discussion Thread

smellslikeshoes · 11-12-2013 10:47pm

Infoanon wrote: »

A bit bizzare - Bernie only wants 10 teams max, while Ferrari (and others?) want 8 teams with 3 cars each....

With Marussia looking for a merger, teams like Lotus not being able to pay staff/drivers and the extra costs involved with next years changes it really wouldn't be too outside the realms of possibility to see 2+ teams go to the wall in next few years.

Jordan 199 · 12-12-2013 12:14am

Max_Charger wrote: »

Feck, that's team Max_charger out of the running anyway!

I'll give you a loan with friendly interest rates

12-12-2013 1:42am

Vegeta wrote: »

The driver you have chosen to single out and criticise in multiple posts above.

I think it very difficult to know for a certainty if a car will or will not be retired on return to the pits.

I was watching the Chinese Grand Prix from this year, when Webber did it.
If a driver is tootling around in 2nd gear having radioed back to the pits saying that the suspension is broken I'd be pretty sure they're retiring.

Infoanon wrote: »

A driver will always drive to the pits be it simply to get the car inspected after an incident or if the car is damaged it is safer to return the cars to the pits.

As above.

Donnelly117 wrote: »

Do you really think the only reason they bring the car home is to save them getting it later? With the astronomical cost of building, transporting and racing these cars I think the teams are well within their right to try and get the cars to the finish and maybe scrape a point or 2, and if that means one slow lap out of 50-70 laps then so be it.
As for blocking other cars...they are supposed to be the 22 best drivers in the world...if they cant avoid a car with 3 wheels on it moving slowly ten they should rethink their career choice.

Also if it takes 4 minutes to get back to the pits...why cant they assess the damage? Just because it takes 4 minutes to do a lap doesnt mean the damage is terminal. It takes 4 minutes because these cars are bloody hard to drive when in perfect condition...Id say its even harder when it has 3 wheels. You can see how unstable the cars are when carrying a puncture while watching the onboard when they are returning to the pits.

So if someone is driving around with oil or water leaking and getting it everywhere it's fine? Or is that different because it presents a different impediment to to other competitors?
As for the race I watched today, Webber had all 4 wheels still on the car and thought the loose wheel was broken suspension. He got in the way on 2 apexes of several people, it was after the hairpin the wheel came off and did a loop across the track.
If a car is running at half the speed of the rest of the field they should. I know that if it wasn't Webber in this particular case, and especially if it was one of the slower teams, that most people would be in agreement with me and talk about how they had no business getting in everyone else's way and possible jeopardising others' races.

12-12-2013 2:22am

Just to be clear, I don't think my bias against Webber (which I won't deny) is particularly relevant, it's a pet hate of mine to see drivers at top teams get away with things that midfield runners would get berated for.

Also, just for fun, I thought I'd explain my bias against Webber and here is something I just put together (wish I could put this effort into something worthwhile :P ). It's Webber and someone else's qualifying record against their teammates. See if you can guess which is Webber and who the other driver is. :P Bottom line is the average gap to the teammate over the season, leaving out 2 for each where there was no running for one or either.

ZiabR · 12-12-2013 10:30am

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

With Marussia looking for a merger, teams like Lotus not being able to pay staff/drivers and the extra costs involved with next years changes it really wouldn't be too outside the realms of possibility to see 2+ teams go to the wall in next few years.

I agree here, but the FiA seem to be looking for more teams to enter the sport.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/12/11/fia-invites-competitive-new-teams-to-enter-f1/

Tea 1000 · 12-12-2013 10:32am

Is the other driver Maldonado?

Donnelly117 · 12-12-2013 10:32am

I have no idea what that table is showing or what point you're making

But I'll take a guess that the second driver is Pastor Maldonado...

Ive yet to see a car which was spilling oil onto the track carry on back to the pits as they always break down or burst into flames. The bottom line is that the trained race marshals are there to decide which cars are capable of returning to the pits safely and which should be shown a black flag (or black and yellow at least). They are the ones who are trained and given direction by race control to make these decisions. You are just a spectator judging from the couch, complaining about a driver you dont like (so am I, and so are the rest of the people who post here)...

Donnelly117 · 12-12-2013 10:33am

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Is the other driver Maldonado?

You read the name of the attachment to then

Vegeta · 12-12-2013 11:00am

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to be clear, I don't think my bias against Webber (which I won't deny)

I don't mind if you have a bias, everyone has their favourites, I just think it is detracting from fair discussion on the very valid point you have raised. Wounded cars on track.

I think if they can recover them, they should. I think parking them might lead to increase in safety cars, which impact on races much more than having to overtake a slow car. The counter point is "well pull them in somewhere safe" but that's ambiguous, what if they have to drive three quarters of the track to find somewhere decent. Also what if the driver wants to pull in but the team instruct him to continue. Kinda harsh to penalise the driver in that scenario.

I think it is ok as is, we see drivers pull off when they can and we see drivers return to the pits if the teams think it might be possible to continue.

Donnelly117 · 12-12-2013 12:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's Webber and someone else's qualifying record against their teammates. See if you can guess which is Webber and who the other driver is. :P Bottom line is the average gap to the teammate over the season, leaving out 2 for each where there was no running for one or either.

Finally figured this out after staring at it for a while... As I am biased towards Webber, as I think of all the recent drivers (last 20 years probably) he was one of the best personalities in the paddock. He is just a normal, likable, down to earth guy as opposed to the self obsessed playboys who live in Monaco and date models etc who drive most of the other cars. He always seemed to have great time for fans and media, and whether he was happy following a race win or fuming following a crash he always has a good long chat with the media after the race and always comes across as a gentleman. He is one of the few drivers who will always talk to MB on his gridwalk. I'm sure Frostie who posts here (who I think mentioned he met and interviewed?) will confirm he is an absolute gent! Most other drivers who are after a bad race will give a 10 second interview with a puss on their face and only provide yes and no answers (Im looking at you Lewis

). But to each his own, and everyone has drivers who they do and dont like. I just think that there aren't too many drivers, media and fans out there who agree with you.
Im guessing my assumption that Maldonado is the second driver in the table based on the title of the attachment, and the point your making is that Maldonado was as closer to Bottas then Webber was to Vettel. Here, you are comparing Maldonado to Bottas, a rookie. But on the flip side you are comparing Webber to Seb Vettel, a 4 time world champ who we know is lightning fast over a single lap. Which makes all the time you put into it a bit of a waste really.

12-12-2013 1:12pm

Gotchas! :P The other driver is everyone's favorite Max Chilton.

I liked Webber until this year but his constant complaining about everything and attendant hypocrisy has really gotten on my nerves. If it was anyone else in that Red Bull this year they would have been fairly criticised quite strongly but his reputation is blinding some people to just how bad he has been.

As for getting wounded cars back to the pits, when was the last time someone got their suspension fixed to get back on track?

Donnelly117 · 12-12-2013 1:24pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Gotchas! :P The other driver is everyone's favorite Max Chilton.

I liked Webber until this year but his constant complaining about everything and attendant hypocrisy has really gotten on my nerves. If it was anyone else in that Red Bull this year they would have been fairly criticised quite strongly but his reputation is blinding some people to just how bad he has been.

As for getting wounded cars back to the pits, when was the last time someone got their suspension fixed to get back on track?

No fair...you cheated!!!

I genuinely did not notice Webber complaining except for Malaysia (which I feel he was in the right to complain as he had been told Vettel would not overtake and gets overtaken half a lap later, but that's a discussion for a different thread which has been done to death). But maybe that's because The racing for half the season was so predictable I used to change channel once Vettel the winner crossed the line

I didnt mention broken suspension anywhere in my posts but if a driver is missing an entire wheel or has no tyre left he most likely will not be able to diagnose broken suspension. The point I'm trying to make (any maybe does not apply to China) is that before a definite call can be made on the condition of the car cannot be made until the mechanics can check it over, in 90% of cases. And teams do not want to be retiring cars which could technically continue and gets a few points for their effort. If the marshals do not black flag the car then it is perfectly entitled to carry on.

stevenmu · 12-12-2013 1:34pm

He did complain a lot about other drivers, but to be fair wasn't he the head of the drivers representative group (can't remember what they're called), so in a way it was his responsibility.

12-12-2013 1:53pm

Donnelly117 wrote: »

No fair...you cheated!!!

I genuinely did not notice Webber complaining except for Malaysia (which I feel he was in the right to complain as he had been told Vettel would not overtake and gets overtaken half a lap later, but that's a discussion for a different thread which has been done to death). But maybe that's because The racing for half the season was so predictable I used to change channel once Vettel the winner crossed the line

I didnt mention broken suspension anywhere in my posts but if a driver is missing an entire wheel or has no tyre left he most likely will not be able to diagnose broken suspension. The point I'm trying to make (any maybe does not apply to China) is that before a definite call can be made on the condition of the car cannot be made until the mechanics can check it over, in 90% of cases. And teams do not want to be retiring cars which could technically continue and gets a few points for their effort. If the marshals do not black flag the car then it is perfectly entitled to carry on.

The case I was talking about yesterday (because I saw it on the telly) was China when Webber radioed to say his suspension was broken. It turned out to be a loose wheel but either way I think it's a lot more responsible to pull over with such issues. As I've said elsewhere, a wheel coming off should mean instant disqualification IMO.

stevenmu wrote: »

He did complain a lot about other drivers, but to be fair wasn't he the head of the drivers representative group (can't remember what they're called), so in a way it was his responsibility.

I just found it funny that he was the first to be penalised under the reprimand system having been so vocal about driving standards in the past.

Jordan 199 · 12-12-2013 3:56pm

Perez confirmed at Force India.

ZiabR · 12-12-2013 4:12pm

Glad for Perez, he deserves another year or two at least in F1. I think he got a raw deal at McLaren. But I do feel a little sorry for Paul. He will most likely leave F1 now which is a shame.

h3000 · 12-12-2013 4:20pm

Formula 1 to introduce 'pole trophy' competition for 2014

smellslikeshoes · 12-12-2013 6:22pm

logik wrote: »

I agree here, but the FiA seem to be looking for more teams to enter the sport.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/12/11/fia-invites-competitive-new-teams-to-enter-f1/

Seriously do you just pick out posts and reply to them without reading them or what. The context of that post was that the FIA were looking for new entries and then you reply to it that the FIA were looking for new entries :rolleyes:

GarIT · 12-12-2013 6:25pm

h3000 wrote: »

Formula 1 to introduce 'pole trophy' competition for 2014

They could have done that much better, they should offer a full set of points for quali the same as the race and have a 1 lap championship for both drivers and teams. It's actually not a terrible idea. Obviously with quali points not carrying over to the race.

ZiabR · 12-12-2013 6:36pm

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Seriously do you just pick out posts and reply to them without reading them or what. The context of that post was that the FIA were looking for new entries and then you reply to it that the FIA were looking for new entries :rolleyes:

I just like to provide a source for what I post when I am quoting a different website

smellslikeshoes · 12-12-2013 6:47pm

logik wrote: »

I just like to provide a source for what I post when I am quoting a different website

I'm going to put you on ignore now, you don't seem to be able to understand anything I post and my blood pressure doesn't need your nonsensical replies.

Frank Bullitt · 12-12-2013 7:52pm

Glad Perez gets a second go, it was looking dire for his career there for a while!

And I feel so sorry for DiResta...my bollox I do! No more moaning from that git!

12-12-2013 8:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As for getting wounded cars back to the pits, when was the last time someone got their suspension fixed to get back on track?

I think it's just laziness most of the time, trying to limp back to the pits in a broken car is quicker than getting out and looking for a lift on a moped.

counterlock · 12-12-2013 8:26pm

Gintonious wrote: »

Glad Perez gets a second go, it was looking dire for his career there for a while!

And I feel so sorry for DiResta...my bollox I do! No more moaning from that git!

I'm glad he got a drive too. I never rated him at the start of the year but he really showed a great improvement as the season progressed. Force india get a driver that is certainly on the way up. Hopefully his pay cheque doesn't bounce.

SilverScreen · 13-12-2013 12:22am

I wonder will the pole position trophy have much impact? I still think they should just give points for pole and also for fastest lap during the race.

Myrddin · 13-12-2013 9:45am

I dunno, a Pole Position trophy just seems gimmicky to me...the drivers want the drivers championship & the team want the constructors...anything else is pretty meaningless really. More so when you consider Vettel would have one the Pole Position trophy for four of the last five years I think...it's won already if you ask me.

ZiabR · 13-12-2013 10:27am

Myrddin wrote: »

I dunno, a Pole Position trophy just seems gimmicky to me...the drivers want the drivers championship & the team want the constructors...anything else is pretty meaningless really. More so when you consider Vettel would have one the Pole Position trophy for four of the last five years I think...it's won already if you ask me.

Yes, in the last four years Vettel would have taken the trophy for sure but here is hoping that next year changes. I am holding out for other teams being closer to Red Bull in 2014, the sport needs a shake up. Is this trophy another attempt to motivate the drivers/teams to try harder in qualifying and bringing more of a spectacle to the fans...

ZiabR · 13-12-2013 10:35am

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

I'm going to put you on ignore now, you don't seem to be able to understand anything I post and my blood pressure doesn't need your nonsensical replies.

If you read back over your original post, it reads that you were implying that over the next fews years, you can see 2+ more teams being pushed out of the sport. I was agreeing with you.

On top of agreeing with you, I simply made the point that the FiA are looking for more teams to join F1 which I think is mad when so many of the current teams are struggling.

But anyway, moving on.....

ZiabR · 13-12-2013 10:47am

Reading over some of the rule changes this morning and a few of them seem a little unfair towards the driver. For example the below:

"Following several instances of cars being released from their pit boxes in an unsafe, fashion, the FIA has revised the penalties for ‘unsafe releases’. Drivers who break the rule during practice will be given a grid drop for the race, and drivers who break the rule during the race will receive a grid drop for the following round."

This seems a little unfair I think towards the driver. They are completely relying on the team to release them, if the team make a mess, the driver gets the penalty. Why not take points off the team in the constructors championship. That way you are affecting the team and not just the driver.

I do think the below is a fairer though, in relation to grid position during qualifying.

"This has forced a change to another part of the regulations as drivers could previously be assigned their qualifying position based on their car number if they failed to set a time. That rule now states they will now start the race “in the order they were classified in the previous period of qualifying or, in the case of Q1, the order they were classified in P3″."

For anyone interested in some of the other rules...http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/12/12/2014-f1-rules-more-changes/

Myrddin · 13-12-2013 10:50am

logik wrote: »

Is this trophy another attempt to motivate the drivers/teams to try harder in qualifying and bringing more of a spectacle to the fans...

To try harder in Quali? I doubt there is ever a driver out there on Saturdays not giving 110%. The Quali trophy for me personally, isn't one the drivers will be motivated by at all.

Formula 1 2013: General Discussion Thread

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