Formula 1 2013: General Discussion Thread

Daniel S

Since the 2012 season is about to come to an exciting finish, we might as well start talking about the 2013 line up. The New Jersey GP has been postponed until 2014, there may only be 22 cars on the grid next year and as of now there are still 3 vacated F1 seats at the mid-back of the grid with 4 drivers still to be confirmed for next year.

Seats available:
Force India - Probably Sutil, Bianchi or Alguersuari. Robin Frijns has been signed by Sauber as a test/reserve driver so he is out of the question.
Williams - Senna or Bottas, almost certainly Bottas
Caterham - General concensus is that Caterham are dropping both drivers. Pic is confirmed for 2013. Possibly a place for Senna?
Marussia - Max Chilton teamed with Timo Glock is an almost certainty.
HRT - Unlikely to be here next year.

Think there's a place for d'Ambrosio?

ScrubsfanChris

During the F1 Forum, EJ was convinced that Senna will be with Caterham next year but Bruno wouldn't admit anything with a smile on his face.

Just looked at the calendar, the location of the German GP is TBA, while else where I read that it has a contract until 2018, whats happening there?

afatbollix

Nuremburg ring is bankrupt. They dont know if they can afford it. Hockenheim will be the other venue if they can't do it.

Daniel S

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

During the F1 Forum, EJ was convinced that Senna will be with Caterham next year but Bruno wouldn't admit anything with a smile on his face.

He's always like that though!

I suppose one way of looking at it is to just compare him to Heikki. It's pretty much accepted that Heikki is gone and was very very downbeat, but Bruno seemed very happy. I really hope he gets a seat in Caterham (as I do want to see Bottas rip the entire midfield to bits! ).

Santan

Next dream scenario is Schumacher to return in 2013 having bought HRT, with Ferrari engines, chief tech officer Adrian Newy, head of operation Ross Brawn and to have Rory Byrne in there somewhere with Vettle as number one driver and number two maybe Bottas, or even Rosberg oh well one can dream

Kevski

Wasn't there talk of a French GP replacing New Jersey?

111 days til Australia according to Button's twitter!

Daniel S

Kevski wrote: »

Wasn't there talk of a French GP replacing New Jersey?

111 days til Australia according to Button's twitter!

Wouldn't mind that!

Jordan 199

Kevski wrote: »

Wasn't there talk of a French GP replacing New Jersey?

There was back in October. Magny Cours or Paul Ricard could hold the race.

I would like to see it at Paul Ricard.

Seannew1

Can't for the life of me see Sutil go back to Force India,they really missed up there letting Hulkenberg so easy,he was fantastic second half of the yr and really outshown Di Resta all ends up. Have a feeling Kobayashi will end up with williams or force india. WOuld love to see a veteran like Barrichello,Trulli or Ralf Schumacher get a seat somewhere but can't for the life of me imagine it.

Autosport

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Ralf :eek: I can only imagine how bad he would be behind a F1 car now.

He drives in the DTM series, he is actually an alright driver but he was never as good as Michael

Jordan 199

I see Kamui Kobayashi raises nearly £500,000 so far towards getting a race seat next year.

Daniel S

Jordan 191 wrote: »

I see Kamui Kobayashi raises nearly £500,000 so far towards getting a race seat next year.

I'd love if he somehow got into the Force India!

Rascasse

I wonder who'll get the second Caterham seat. With them getting the extra 10m in prize money they may reconsider letting heikki go. Someone (Kravitz?) said that rubens was talking to them but it was only a slim chance. Sutil and kobayashi possible too? GvdG too inexperienced with Pic?

frostie500

Rascasse wrote: »

I wonder who'll get the second Caterham seat. With them getting the extra 10m in prize money they may reconsider letting heikki go. Someone (Kravitz?) said that rubens was talking to them but it was only a slim chance. Sutil and kobayashi possible too? GvdG too inexperienced with Pic?

When I was chatting to the Caterham guys in Singapore I made a point of asking about Heikki's future and no-one was willing to say anything of note about keeping him. Just a few platitudes and the like. They spent a lot of money this year (moving to a new factory and increasing the work force) so a pay driver is the most likely solution. Heikki has done really well for them over the last three years and deserves to be in a better car but it's probably the toughest time I can remember to get a drive if you dont bring a budget

Kamui cant raise enough cash. There's no chance of Rubens isnt coming back. Sutil would be a very good driver who could bring in a pretty good budget. Same for Senna. Giedo...take some cash off him and give him a run in every Friday session to raise some money with Pic and Senna/Sutil alternating each race for FP1.

The interesting question is really what Marussia do for their number two driver. I'd hate to see Chilton get it. I don't rate him too highly but he can bring loads of cash to the table which will obviously be crucial for the team

Seannew1

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Ralf :eek: I can only imagine how bad he would be behind a F1 car now.

I was a ralf schumacher fan back in the day so I'd be inclined to defend him to the hills though!

bbsrs

Jordan 191 wrote: »

There was back in October. Magny Cours or Paul Ricard could hold the race.

I would like to see it at Paul Ricard.

Bernie owns Paul Ricard .

frostie500

frostie500 wrote: »

When I was chatting to the Caterham guys in Singapore I made a point of asking about Heikki's future and no-one was willing to say anything of note about keeping him. Just a few platitudes and the like. They spent a lot of money this year (moving to a new factory and increasing the work force) so a pay driver is the most likely solution. Heikki has done really well for them over the last three years and deserves to be in a better car but it's probably the toughest time I can remember to get a drive if you dont bring a budget

Kamui cant raise enough cash. There's no chance of Rubens isnt coming back. Sutil would be a very good driver who could bring in a pretty good budget. Same for Senna. Giedo...take some cash off him and give him a run in every Friday session to raise some money with Pic and Senna/Sutil alternating each race for FP1.

The interesting question is really what Marussia do for their number two driver. I'd hate to see Chilton get it. I don't rate him too highly but he can bring loads of cash to the table which will obviously be crucial for the team

What's the craic with Heikki? He's barely outperformed teammates in a **** car for the last 3 years, actually been beaten the last 2, and was completely embarrassed at McLaren. Let's be honest here, to enjoy him at McLaren would require one to have a proper sadistic kink. Has there been two teammates so far apart in recent times? Hell as pathetic as Webber and Massa have been at times in the last 2 years they didn't spend a year a second a lap slower than a teammate.

Rascasse

BOTTAS confirmed alongside Maldonado at Williams.

Daniel S

Senna's pissed I'd say but hopefully he'll get the Caterham seat.

EDIT: Turns out he's not at all and he has known for some time!

Frank Bullitt

Delighted Bottas got the drive, clearly has the talent and speed, like most Finns. Can see him doing very well.

LaminatorSGL

Most pressing issue on my mind for 2013 is: who's going to be wearing the yellow helmet at Mercedes? Will Rosberg be forced to give it up to Hamilton, or will they both be sporting the same colour, making things very tricky for commentators next year.

Rascasse

LaminatorSGL wrote: »

Most pressing issue on my mind for 2013 is: who's going to be wearing the yellow helmet at Mercedes? Will Rosberg be forced to give it up to Hamilton, or will they both be sporting the same colour, making things very tricky for commentators next year.

Nah, Lewis will be the one in front. :pac:

Jordan 199

LaminatorSGL wrote: »

Most pressing issue on my mind for 2013 is: who's going to be wearing the yellow helmet at Mercedes? Will Rosberg be forced to give it up to Hamilton, or will they both be sporting the same colour, making things very tricky for commentators next year.

Hamilton helmet:



Rosberg helmet:



Hamilton's helmet has a darker shade of yellow and is more colourful. I'd say they will stick with the designs they have.

Rascasse

They can also just look at the camera on top of the air intake. One is orange and the other yellow, I assume to help the commentators.

h3000

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Hamilton helmet:

Hamilton's helmet has a darker shade of yellow and is more colourful. I'd say they will stick with the designs they have.

I presume Vodafone was a McLaren sponsor rather than a Hamilton sponsor so his helmet design will have to change at least some bit.

RayM

Kobayashi to Lotus?

I really hope this happens. Kobayashi didn't deserve to be dropped by Sauber - it would be nice to see him beating them next year. And I don't think too many people would miss Grosjean.

Myrddin

RayM wrote: »

And I don't think too many people would miss Grosjean.

The sad thing is, Grosjean is actually fast, very fast. He's down on his luck big time, I can't help but think he'd mature into a serious racer with time

TheChrisD

They should send Grosjean to IndyCar - with his talent for beating and banging, he should do rather well until he gets dumped with 2 laps to go.

Jordan 199

h3000 wrote: »

I presume Vodafone was a McLaren sponsor rather than a Hamilton sponsor so his helmet design will have to change at least some bit.

Yes. Lewis will have the Mercedes sponsors logos on his helmet, apart from that I'd say the colour scheme and design on Lewis' helmet will remain the same.

TheChrisD

TheChrisD wrote: »

They should send Grosjean to IndyCar - with his talent for beating and banging, he should do rather well until he gets dumped with 2 laps to go.

Nah stick him in NASCAR and put him next to Gordon at the start of each race.

Jordan 199

2013 French GP ruled out.

A shame. Would have loved to see a race at Paul Ricard.

Grim.

Jordan 191 wrote: »

2013 French GP ruled out.

A shame. Would have loved to see a race at Paul Ricard.

It would've been terrible scheduling anyway with the 24H of Le Mans the week after.

Myrddin

Ficus wrote: »

He is fast alright but i disagree that he is down on his luck. If you look back through his career starting in karting, he has always been accident prone and gotten himself into all sorts of trouble. I think its too late to be in f1 and still hitting everything that moves through stupidity.

Ah, I knew nothing of his time before F1...so this is normal for him? Shame, as I said, he's genuinely quick.

lolie

Jordan 191 wrote: »

I see Kamui Kobayashi raises nearly £500,000 so far towards getting a race seat next year.

At £1million now:)
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/11/30/kobayashi-raises-1m-fans/
He might just pull it off.
How much bucks would sutil bring with him?

Infoanon

HRT Technical Director,Toni Cuquerella has tweeted this morning "Four years ago I suggested to a freind to start an F1 team,today after three years,the final page of that story is written for HRT"

Stories from Spain say that the employees have been made redundant, phone lines have been disconnected and another story doing the rounds is the drivers were given the option of not racing at interlagos as many parts including brakes were beyond their life cycle.

Sad end but also once again raises many questions about the process used to choose these new comers at the exclusion of better financed and more experienced operations

Jordan 199

Infoanon wrote: »

HRT Technical Director,Toni Cuquerella has tweeted this morning "Four years ago I suggested to a freind to start an F1 team,today after three years,the final page of that story is written for HRT"

Stories from Spain say that the employees have been made redundant, phone lines have been disconnected and another story doing the rounds is the drivers were given the option of not racing at interlagos as many parts including brakes were beyond their life cycle.

Sad end but also once again raises many questions about the process used to choose these new comers at the exclusion of better financed and more experienced operations

Campos Meta/HRT had money problems from day one and changed hands three times during it's three year period in F1.

Of the four teams that were granted entry for the 2010 championship, USF1 didn't make it to the grid, Campos Meta/HRT just closed their doors, so only Caterham and Manor/Virgin/Marussia remain.

Since I started watching F1 in 1994, the following teams closed due to finances:

1994: Lotus and Larrousse.

1995: Simtek* and Pacific.

1996: Forti Corse.*

1997: Lola.*

2001: Prost.

2002: Arrows.*

2008: Super Aguri.*

* denotes teams that closed during the season.

smellslikeshoes

^^^^^


Alain is not amused you forgot Prost Grand Prix

Infoanon wrote: »

Sad end but also once again raises many questions about the process used to choose these new comers at the exclusion of better financed and more experienced operations

Is there any proof of this? As far as I can tell any of the other 14 potential entries would have been just as likely to be in the same position HRT are now.
Fact is when you look into how long the average new F1 team lasts it's a surprise that at least one of them haven't closed shop before now.

kksaints

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Campos Meta/HRT had money problems from day one and changed hands three times during it's three year period in F1.

Of the four teams that were granted entry for the 2010 championship, USF1 didn't make it to the grid, Campos Meta/HRT just closed their doors, so only Caterham and Manor/Virgin/Marussia remain.

Since I started watching F1 in 1994, the following teams closed due to finances:

1994: Lotus and Larrousse.

1995: Simtek* and Pacific.

1996: Forti Corse.*

1997: Lola.*

2002: Arrows.*

2008: Super Aguri.*

* denotes teams that closed during the season.

Did Prost not close down aswell?

Jordan 199

kksaints wrote: »

Did Prost not close down aswell?

Forgot about Prost

frostie500

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Is there any proof of this? As far as I can tell any of the other 14 potential entries would have been just as likely to be in the same position HRT are now.

This isnt directed at you by the smellslikeshoes, quoting you because I agree with you! but I wanted to reiterate something about these new teams and their struggles. When the teams were announced the FIA changed the goalposts midway through the process. The budget cap of 40million was what enticed a lot of teams to start the application process and when the budget cap was removed suddenly they needed to raise a lot more cash.

Of the teams that could have entered F1 at the time Prodrive was the only one that would likely have been able to do F1 but they werent willing to be their own constructor (they had some sort of agreement with Mclaren IFRC. USF1 never got off the ground and if they hadnt been given their entry Lola would have been the most likely replacement....but they've since gone bust too

It's a very difficult time to try and build a team at the minute unfortunately

Jordan 199

lolie wrote: »

At £1million now:)
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/11/30/kobayashi-raises-1m-fans/
He might just pull it off.
How much bucks would sutil bring with him?

I'm not sure how much money Sutil brings with him. I read that one of the teams that both Sutil and Kobayashi are being linked to (Force India) are saying that speed and not money will be the deciding factor on their driver lineup next year.

Jordan 199

frostie500 wrote: »

It's a very difficult time to try and build a team at the minute unfortunately

F1 has always been a difficult sport to crack and it will continue to be that way IMO.

bbsrs

I think Perez could outshine Button next year and be a title contender , anyone agree?

Daniel S

bbsrs wrote: »

I think Perez could outshine Button next year and be a title contender , anyone agree?

Nah not really, but I do love your username! :pac:

Wouldn't expect it.

hawkwind23

big story for me is how the merc and LH will perform.
i suspect this years car was shelved and they were focusing on developing next years car.
either that or Hamilton has made the dumbest career move ever, cant see him languishing at the back of the top ten all season.

bbsrs

Deleted User wrote: »

Wouldn't expect it.

Paddy Power doesn't think so either ,Perez 18/1 , button 8/1 big odds imo considering the car won 5 out of the last 10 races of 2012 .

GarIT

bbsrs wrote: »

I think Perez could outshine Button next year and be a title contender , anyone agree?

I think they will struggle to compete with Renault next year. They may even have to fight until the end with Mercedes over fourth.

frostie500

Id be very surprised if Perez was able to match Jenson over the course of the season. Sergio has a lot of talent, obviously, but it's one thing to be able to have strong races every now and then compared to doing it when the pressure to perform week in and week out is on with the top teams. Heikki couldn't do it at McLaren and we all know how talented he is. Getting the move to a big team means that you have to achieve big results.

We saw over the last three years that Button doesnt have the same speed as Hamilton over a single lap but over a race and over the course of three seasons there was little to choose between them. There'll be races where Perez is faster but I'd be surprised that over the balance of the season Button will be the man to beat

bbsrs

frostie500 wrote: »

Id be very surprised if Perez was able to match Jenson over the course of the season. Sergio has a lot of talent, obviously, but it's one thing to be able to have strong races every now and then compared to doing it when the pressure to perform week in and week out is on with the top teams. Heikki couldn't do it at McLaren and we all know how talented he is. Getting the move to a big team means that you have to achieve big results.

We saw over the last three years that Button doesnt have the same speed as Hamilton over a single lap but over a race and over the course of three seasons there was little to choose between them. There'll be races where Perez is faster but I'd be surprised that over the balance of the season Button will be the man to beat

Between the top 4 there is little to choose in outright race pace but in terms of innovation and rule interpretation RB's Adrian Newey is the difference over a season.
I think if Perez gets a good confidence boosting start to the season he is in with a shout as long as Newey's magic takes a while to get going.

Myrddin

bbsrs wrote: »

I think Perez could outshine Button next year and be a title contender , anyone agree?

Nope, he hasn't been great towards the end of this season, & I suspect if his performance at the start/middle of this season was the same as it was near the end, he wouldn't have got near a McLaren. He wold do well to get his head down & learn how the team works & stay outta trouble for the first season.

hawkwind23 wrote: »

either that or Hamilton has made the dumbest career move ever, cant see him languishing at the back of the top ten all season.

Time will tell, there's many factors at play that you or I have no idea about.