Al Jazeera

snaps wrote: »

Yes but its the same situation with sky UK's receivers and subscriptions are being used all over Europe in bars and clubs out of their intended broadcasting area. Probably more sky uk subs being used over in bars and clubs in Europe than foreign subs in the uk? To me that's the same thing as what all Jazeera and fox Italia are being punished for. What's good for the goose is good for the gander?!

Right, before anybody else joins in with this part of the JSC debate, please ask yourself this before continuing: is what I'm about to say relevant to the Premier League stopping 3pm matches being available in English commercial premises. If it's not, and just like the ridiculous Super Sunday into Ireland comment earlier, then it's not relevant - as is this quoted post.

I thought the points had been dealt with, but it seems some still don't get it.

Jazeera Sports (and Fox Italia and Diema/Nova and indeed all European broadcasters) have been - and are being - "punished" because their channels are being used in commercial premises in England to show, in particular, 3pm Premier League fixtures.

That's the only issue here and this is the sole remit of the Premier League - I would've thought that was obvious but it appears to not be the case for some people. No fixtures at any other time have been stopped (except in the case of Tring who got away with quite a lot to be fair!). Indeed, tomorrow night many foreign providers will thankfully be showing more than one PL game.

In the UK, Sky also monitor commercial premises to ensure a domestic Sky subscription is not being used in commercial premises. They also use a secure set-top box with paired cards for their premium channels; as we all know if they are made aware that their cards are being used outside the authorised area they cut the cards. They have done what they can to prevent piracy.

As it happens, the availability of their Premier League broadcasts in other countries is down to the rights-holders in those particular territories to monitor and report anyway. The Premier League's remit is unauthorised reception in the UK.

Pre-paid Fox Sports Italia cards not even needing Sky Italia receivers for use were widely available at the start of this season.

Bulgarian cards are easily available, again without the need for an official receiver. Their relevant channels are also easily opened on HellasSat with no payment necessary.

None of these providers have been prevented from showing matches at any other time so please stop posting red herrings about Sky and take a long hard look at the facts!

irishchris wrote: »

Think you are missing the emphasis on debate here. It means more than Inge side debating "facts" and their beliefs. Just because you believe it does not make it fact. Have to say I agree with points from both sets of views here

JSC (and others) have been stopped showing 3pms (no other fixtures have been stopped).

The reason for doing so is because their signals are being pirated and shown in pubs in England during the blackout period there (2.45pm-5.15pm).

If you can add any facts relating to Sky TV to that debate, please do

I'm going to change the subject slightly here, tomorrow night there are 8 live matches on JSC, 4 of them on +1 - +4.
I know we've had a situation twice this year where Al Jazeera broadcast matches on these channels and blocked them out on hotbird but on both occasions the matches were on at 3pm on a Saturday.
How likely/unlikely is it that they might show the matches on hotbird tomorrow night seeing as these matches are outside the blackout times?

snaps wrote: »

How about Setanta? A 3pm kick off game and in English? I know of a few local bars here (Outside Ireland) showing these matches instead of the local NC+. I also know of a lot of Irish bars in the UK showing the setanta games too.

Is there some reason things are going over people's heads?

Setanta's use is hardly widespread, and with good reason - only 1 match, no HD and it's tied to the secure Sky card.

radiowaves wrote: »

When did this JSC thread go off-topic?

Thread seems bogged down in a piracy debate, just my opinion.

Finne1993 wrote: »

I'm going to change the subject slightly here, tomorrow night there are 8 live matches on JSC, 4 of them on +1 - +4.
I know we've had a situation twice this year where Al Jazeera broadcast matches on these channels and blocked them out on hotbird but on both occasions the matches were on at 3pm on a Saturday.
How likely/unlikely is it that they might show the matches on hotbird tomorrow night seeing as these matches are outside the blackout times?

Thread subject is JSC

I doubt that Jazeera will want to upset the Premier League right now! They fired up new transponders on other satellites for their PL coverage so I would say it's highly unlikely - besides, there are 2 matches on Saturday and usually at least 2 games on Sundays outside the blackout period, these haven't yet appeared on Hotbird.

irishchris wrote: »

What is more secure about a sky card over a jsc One?
On a side note you should watch the condescending tone to your posts here. This is a hobby happy forum with people trying to help each other :-)

Let's start from scratch.

Sky cards are paired to their set top box.

Jazeera are in the process of introducing a card-paired system.

That's been the whole crux of the matter.

As for your last line, don't ask the question if you're not looking for a helpful answer!

irishchris wrote: »

Sky cards are as easily "pirated" as jsc and have been so for years. Their pairing is not secure in any sense and there is no difference in that sense between jsc and sky. But then you probably already knew that :-)

Sky have done all they can to secure their service, JSC have not.

The crux of the matter :P

irishchris wrote: »

How have they? Pairing is not secure. Their cards are being pirated and shared Europewide & on the strongest UK/Ireland beam that there is. Jsc have put their services on nileSat and badr and removed from hotbird making nigh on impossible for most to receive it. Now let's see " who has done the most to combat people viewing premier league football the most? " Hmmm....Your argument is flawed my friend.

And yet again, my friend, the crux of the matter is the broadcasting of 3pms in UK licensed premises.

So many circles being run around in this thread, so little time.

And, by the way, this is not my argument - I am presenting the reasons why the Premier League have done what they have done.

irishchris wrote: »

But my friend it's nit just the 3Pms that we are talking about. On a whole sky have done VERY little to combat piracy whereas jsc have done everything possible including moving ALL games to badr and nileSat and reducing its hotbird channels to 4 without any player footy. And that is THE crux of the matter :-)

You might be talking about all sorts of things

The matter under discussion (why JSC have been targeted) is quite simply because their 3pms could be viewed in licensed premises all over England.

It is their 3pm matches that have been taken away from them, no other timeslot has been affected, including tomorrow night (when 8 games will be broadcast).

Unfortunately for them they were one of the very few services that carried all the 3pms making them highly desirable. I do think that is not their fault and for them to be targeted by the PL is unfair, but the facts are the facts - it is the easy availability of their service which has led to them being targeted.

I wholeheartedly agree that they did what they could to prevent their signal being receivable in the UK but their cards are not secured to set-top boxes, the very least any provider can do. Rightly or wrongly the Premier League believe this to be all that is required (having also advised TV2 Norway and Fox Sports Netherlands to take this course of action).

In the next couple of months they will have switched most of their subscriber-base to new STBs, hopefully for all our sakes that will be enough to sate the Premier League.

STB wrote: »

Is this a personal opinion ?

If you do not infringe logo usage, how is it piracy ? There are already ad based systems available for this.

Also Sky piracy via illegal IPTV servers has made redundant their card marrying deployment. It is in more common usage than people with 5m dishes attempting to pull in MENA satellite beams!

Finally, is there any chance you could drop the I am vastly superior tone please ? Thanks.

Unauthorised use of a television subscription service is piracy.

And yet again the issue here is broadcast of 3pms in the UK so mentioning Sky is still a red herring and unrelated.

Finally, I don't think you are vastly superior.

Thanks

STB wrote: »

Unauthorised use and piracy are NOT the same thing, especially as regards how that applies to the topic being discussed.

In this instance they most certainly are...

STB wrote: »

I made no mention of 3pms, you did. I was simply pointing out that piracy of Sky's services via IPTV is very prevailent and possibly more so than numbers using 5m dishes to access MENA rights with subscription cards. Whoevers mantra you are regurgitating comparing preventitive measures may not be true!

I seem to remember your OTT aggression earlier in this thread about being on-topic? This is about JSC and the heart of that matter is their 3pms being available in UK pubs

STB wrote: »

If you had an iota what you were talking about you would not be making this mistake. My request to tone it down was for your own sake. I cant stop you from coming across as a dick.

You can't help yourself, can you? I'm astonished you are allowed get away with your very aggressive attitude on this board.

Superior tone, not the first time you've thrown accusations about without looking at your own image? Pots. Kettles. Off-coloured.

I can see the point of view about the 3pm kick offs here, but at the end of the day Sky UK/Setanta/BT is possibly more pirated than any other channel due to its English Language audio. Also the breach of terms and conditions of tens of thousands of subs being used outside the UK o sky boxes possibly far out numbers the amount of people that watch 3pm kick offs via foreign subs/other means.
Its swings and roundabouts here, The easiest thing to be done is the EPL move all EPL games from outside this blackout zone. Money to be made by everybody here (Ive said this a few times in this thread). EPL need to modernize their business plan (Said this as well), we do not have these viewing restrictions in the other main big football league countries in Europe.
The EPL are happy to milk as much money out of everybody and anybody at the moment, its also been said already "They want their cake and now they have to eat it".

Times change, people change, technology changes. Simple, EPL needs to change.

The Champions league changed, the Uefa cup changed and seems to have worked, Im a bit dubious of all this money being thrown at the champions league now (BT sports apparently paid 1 billion in rights), but we will see what comes of this as we could have the same fighting over TV rights for CL too on match nights.

Anyone watching Al Jazeera on Hotbird tonight? I'm just wondering are they showing any of the premier league matches on it?