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LVP Thermodynamic solar Panels

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    #242
    The devils
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭The devils


    adam88 wrote: »
    Can it work with other water heating systems. I've my hot water currently heated by oil and back boiler which will be used a lot more now but live the idea of this for mornings just back from work etc.
    What I want to know is for eg If I have a savage fire down will the thermo stay off due to the fact that the water is already bring heated.
    Hi Adam , yes as far as I am aware it can work. But I think you would have to replace your existing hot water tank with a triple coil one. I am assuming you have a twin coil tank installed now ? I have installed a 250 litre tank so I should have plenty of hot water, considering the previous one was 90.


    If you need any more info , no problem.


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    #243
    adam88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭adam88


    The devils wrote: »
    Hi Adam , yes as far as I am aware it can work. But I think you would have to replace your existing hot water tank with a triple coil one. I am assuming you have a twin coil tank installed now ? I have installed a 250 litre tank so I should have plenty of hot water, considering the previous one was 90.


    If you need any more info , no problem.

    Yes triple coil sounds familiar. I presume that is thermo, stove and oil. I also presume that if the thermo has the water hot and the oil is set to start that it also won't turn in if the water is hot enough. Really want to get this right. I think I'm getting the box fitted rather than the tank system. All at the planning stage


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    #244
    The devils
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭The devils


    I also presume that if the thermo has the water hot and the oil is set to start that it also won't turn in if the water is hot enough. If the thermo unit is running and reaches the required set point , well then the thermo unit will switch off..and also I assume if you have your oil heating/stove on delivering heat to triple coil unit maintaining a set point above the thermo unit one that you have , then thermo unit should not start. It will only start when temp drops below!




    Really want to get this right. I think I'm getting the box fitted rather than the tank system.
    The only thing that I would do is price the triple coil and thermo block and panel and see what price diff it would be, rather than just thermo block and panel..if I get a chance I might be able to get some more info for you.

    Vomiting bug hit house last night ...


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    #245
    braka
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭braka


    braka wrote: »
    Mine is set at 55, .....for comparison purposes it may be better if we were all on the same set temperature of 55?

    Also I think having it set at 52 at the beginning was definitely too low!
    Is your system manufactured by Energie because it has 55deg as the set temp in its manual?

    .........and of course you have to use the anti-legionaires button to put it to 65 if you were not using the water for a period.



    If you could post the actual kWh used, it would be better I think as everyone is not using the same supplier and costs are different per kWh.

    Good luck with the system.... Mine is actually costing less this year (probably due to the milder Autumn) and I will be putting up my latest data next weekend.

    Latest October usage from the Energie System.
    Weather to get colder this month so should be interesting how the different systems perform?


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    #246
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,109 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Re; these panels and their location, are they meant to be on south facing roofs like real solar panels?

    I know they will work anywhere, but is there an optimum location?


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    #247
    braka
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭braka


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Re; these panels and their location, are they meant to be on south facing roofs like real solar panels?

    I know they will work anywhere, but is there an optimum location?


    A south facing roof is preferred for maximum efficiency..but it's not essential as mine is facing West!

    see the faq's on http://www.energie.pt/en/faq/general/


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    #248
    The devils
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭The devils


    braka wrote: »
    A south facing roof is preferred for maximum efficiency..but it's not essential as mine is facing West!

    see the faq's on http://www.energie.pt/en/faq/general/

    Mine is also facing west!


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    #249
    The devils
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭The devils


    First week in and power consumption was 22.37 kW !


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    #250
    whitenoise
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭whitenoise


    braka wrote: »
    Latest October usage from the Energie System.
    Weather to get colder this month so should be interesting how the different systems perform?

    How do I set the temperature? I have a feeling that the manual with the description either got munched by the kids or fecked out


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    #251
    The devils
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭The devils


    whitenoise wrote: »
    How do I set the temperature? I have a feeling that the manual with the description either got munched by the kids or fecked out

    Press menu for 5 seconds
    Scroll down to parameters, press okay
    Scroll to set point compressor, press okay
    Then use arrow up or down to set value,
    When you are happy with temp , press cancel again and again to exit.
    Hope this helps any problems get back in touch.


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    #252
    deeno1975
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭deeno1975


    The devils wrote: »
    First week in and power consumption was 22.37 kW !

    Are you happy with this and does it meet your expectations?


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    #253
    The devils
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭The devils


    deeno1975 wrote: »
    Are you happy with this and does it meet your expectations?

    Sorry for the delay in getting back.
    Yes brilliant system, meets all our expectations. Will be interesting to see how it gets on during the winter months.

    Are you thinking of installing something similar. Let me me know and I can send on details!


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    #254
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,109 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Getting more interested in one of these systems.

    Can anyone who has got one installed tell me the total cost of getting it fitted? (by PM if you don't want to reveal costs publicly).


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    #255
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Total results from September so now giving a very realistic running cost.


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    #256
    braka
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭braka


    Latest data from the Thermodynamic system..

    With the recent addition of a grandchild, the parents & baby have been staying over quite a bit.....so its quite noticeable that extra hot water was being used in the past month.


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    #257
    whitenoise
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭whitenoise


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Total results from September so now giving a very realistic running cost.

    Fair play Shane, thanks for that


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    #258
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    braka wrote: »
    Latest data from the Thermodynamic system..

    With the recent addition of a grandchild, the parents & baby have been staying over quite a bit.....so its quite noticeable that extra hot water was being used in the past month.

    How many litres of hot water is the system heating? I had a look back over the thread but could not see any cylinder size.


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    #259
    beertons
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 23,063 ✭✭✭✭beertons


    I imagine 280L


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    #260
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Mine is 250 litre. Braka's is also 250 litres.


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    #261
    beertons
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 23,063 ✭✭✭✭beertons


    Ooops. Mine is 280.


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    #262
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Mine is 250 litre. Braka's is also 250 litres.

    Thanks all,
    Is this for thermodynamic only, has running cost for immersion back up been factored into the spread sheet?

    I was checking it against a formula to check how accurate the formula was compared to actual working costs. Needed to work out Delta T for a working system.

    Using the formula: it works out at €210 per year on average when Delta T is 35 degrees for 250 ltrs. When looking at the figures on Braka's spread-sheet for last year & this year it's looking as if the calculation is not a 100 miles out.

    I've been involved in putting one into a laundrette which has heated 2000 ltrs from cold to 50 degrees for approx €3.70 based on our calculations and is set up on 8 panels. We're now working on designing one to do both hot water and underfloor heating which will have 16 panels.

    Thermodynamic seems to be the way to go guys.


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    #263
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Mine is not a LVP. Mine is an Ariston NUOS which is an air to water with no roof panel.

    There is more controllability with the NUOS, in that I can set it into different modes, Green, Auto, Boost & Timed.

    Green will not allow the immersion back up to operate.
    Auto will only allow the immersion back up if the air temp falls below zero.
    Boost is heat pump & immersion.
    Timed is a time set to reach a given set temp & it will use the immersion to achieve it if struggling to satisfy.

    All figures, including Braka's, would be actual so any immersion back up is included as the unit is monitored not just the heat pump side of the unit.

    I have mine running in Green Mode.


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    #264
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Mine is not a LVP. Mine is an Ariston NUOS which is an air to water with no roof panel.

    There is more controllability with the NUOS, in that I can set it into different modes, Green, Auto, Boost & Timed.

    Green will not allow the immersion back up to operate.
    Auto will only allow the immersion back up if the air temp falls below zero.
    Boost is heat pump & immersion.
    Timed is a time set to reach a given set temp & it will use the immersion to achieve it if struggling to satisfy.

    All figures, including Braka's, would be actual so any immersion back up is included as the unit is monitored not just the heat pump side of the unit.

    I have mine running in Green Mode.

    Yours is more like an air to water heat pump if I'm correct. They're a good job also. Ideal for underfloor. How are you finding it?


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    #265
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Froststop wrote: »
    Yours is more like an air to water heat pump if I'm correct. They're a good job also. Ideal for underfloor. How are you finding it?

    Yes mine is an air to water heat pump.
    I love it. One of the best things I installed. Constant hot water for very low cost & I have really noticed a significant drop in my oil usage since installing it.


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    #266
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    Here is a post in UK regarding a commercial Thermodynamic installation under test for 2 years in Southwest UK.
    http://www.renewablerescue.co.uk/do-not-install-thermodynamic-systems

    Some of the comments are familiar. Note this is thermodynamic heating not air to water or air to air.


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    #267
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    freddyuk wrote: »
    Here is a post in UK regarding a commercial Thermodynamic installation under test for 2 years in Southwest UK.
    http://www.renewablerescue.co.uk/do-not-install-thermodynamic-systems

    Some of the comments are familiar. Note this is thermodynamic heating not air to water or air to air.

    Freddy, Im no fan of Thermodynamic 'solar panels' BUT we need to be seeing peer reviewed literature.


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    #268
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    freddyuk wrote: »
    Here is a post in UK regarding a commercial Thermodynamic installation under test for 2 years in Southwest UK.
    http://www.renewablerescue.co.uk/do-not-install-thermodynamic-systems

    Some of the comments are familiar. Note this is thermodynamic heating not air to water or air to air.

    TBH, that website is totally designed to scare monger customers to get them out to get more money out of them. Their so-called engineers will inspect & do a report! I wonder how many they pass & how many are referred to them to take action.
    Braka's installation is a thermodynamic system & it is not working out with a COP of 0.93.

    I absolutely hate negative crap. Braka's & my own system are doing what they say on the tin. They are providing complete domestic hot water needs for very low costs, with proven energy used & thus proven energy cost. I understand mine is not thermodynamic but it is still a similar technology.

    For me, I have seen an enormous drop in my oil bill & I expect it to continue. In the past 12 months, I have used 800 litres of kerosene. I have UFH both upstairs & downstairs, measuring 3,000sqft. I will also be making further improvements to the house which may or may not reduce the oil usage, but should improve the comfort levels within the home.


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    #269
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    I was the one calling for real time actual data for the past 18 months. I have followed all the information. Only Braka has kept us informed others have disappeared so either their systems are not working or they lost interest.
    The MCS rejected the Thermodynamic systems because they felt they were not efficient enough and no real data from the manufacturer.
    I have used about 30% of my normal oil load this year as this has been the warmest winter for some years so far so not really a fair test of systems that are susceptable to low temperatures. We know at lower temperatures the COP falls and the heat pump has to run all day to keep up in theory.
    So a balanced view is all I am offering from another perspective ie. a real installation but larger and for all to see. If it is a complete red herring then I am sure we will know soon enough and I will advise.
    Just because one system is apparently working OK in mild temperatures you cannot surely close the book? If it actually works there will be plenty of interest I can assure you. If it is just keeping pace with an immersion heater then my previous arguments will prevail when it gets colder.
    I truly want it to work as I have something similar to test when I get a chance. I want that oil usage down to 10%.


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    #270
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    I genuinely think you are wrong & I am quite surprised you picked such a crap website to assist you back up your arguments.

    I built my house in 2003, so I have seen all sorts of winters & summers. This past 7 months has been no milder than most of the past 11 years apart from the 2 years of the big freeze and the significant drop in my oil usage is very noticeable.

    A very good friend of mine who is not earning a lot has recently installed a pre-pay electricity meter. His cylinder recently leaked & I had a spare 300 litre solar cylinder which I gave him. The immersion was at the bottom of the cylinder so it heats nearly full volume. He ran out of oil & switched on the immersion. He knew what average his daily electricity usage was by monitoring the credit daily. For this day, the immersion took €9.00 from his remaining balance after deducting his average daily normal usage.
    I do understand for pre-pay meters he would be paying a slightly higher kwh rate but his rate equates to €63 per week. Even if we half that to allow for the bigger cylinder & perhaps for some non-usage of hot water that may carry over, and then deduct a bit more, that would be €30 per week.

    Compared to an average of €3 - €4 per week for my air to water & Braka's thermodynamic, well let's just say the figures speak for themselves.


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    #271
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    Not disputing weather data as not seen any real data. However we had one or two mildly frosty nights to date.
    Heating a 300 litre solar cylinder with an immersion from the bottom of course will use a lot of (wasted) energy. Immersions go in the top of a cylinder so you heat with expensive electricity just the amount you need and switch it off. It takes very little time but it is relevant to the starting temperature and I have solar coming in too. So for around 100 litres to get from my average "cold" 35c it will take me 30 - 40 minutes to get to temperature so 2kWh. I would never use 300 litres in one go so would never heat a complete cylinder with immersion. Your friend would not use 300 litres of hot water every day?? That is why you put solar in the bottom which is free. I will get quite a few immersion boosts for €4 and I have not spent any money on a heat pump system. When it gets really much more wintery we can revisit results.
    I thought the website I presented offered another view not a be all and all of the discussion. If it turns out to be totally incorrect I will withdraw it. I cannot do anything about the MCS decision however. (Thermo not Heat pump).


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