Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

corktina · 23-10-2013 2:37pm

fair point, the 100 million was sunk before the bubble burst

Copyerselveson · 23-10-2013 2:45pm

West on Track are a lobby group, in the same way the Sligo Mayo Greenway group are also a lobby group. I fail to understand the purpose of asking the Minister to make one lobby group "listen" to another lobby group.

Errigal Climber seems to think that West on Track are some quasi-governmental body answerable to the Department of Transport.

I rather suspect that letter will undoubtedly be given a brisk response from one of the DOT civil servants and then filed away.

Copyerselveson · 23-10-2013 2:49pm

And right now there is no approval for any new railway. (Though that may change after 2015 if we come out of the bailout) There are plans but the real issue for the Greenway lobbyists is that Mayo County Council are intending to reserve the existing track for a future railway service. The County Development plan is nearly fixed at this stage and from what the majority of councillors are saying its unlikely that they will adopt any part of the Greenway proposals.

errigalclimber · 23-10-2013 3:33pm

Let's be clear, track laying on the Limerick to Galway line was ongoing in 2009, one year after the collapse of Lehman Brothers. So millions of investment on the Limerick to Galway section were taking place as the financial crisis had unfolded. It was a disgraceful ordering of priorities given especially what has emerged in respect of the line's patronage.

In response to another posting above, I do not believe that West On Track is a quasi-governmental body. Indeed, it is because they are not such a body that I question their apparent access to the Minister in the pictures they have posted on their website of the opening of Oranmore Station - it is as if this unlected lobbying group takes credit for an important aspect of Government transport policy costing the Irish taxpayer millions.

West On Track as a group does not have a monopoly on ideas for the use of the disused section of line from Athenry. The proposals for greenway have the benefit of: (1) attracting footfall now and not some indeterminate time in the future, (2) benefiting local communities and rural economies now and not some indeterminate time in the future; (3) preserving the trackbed for potential future rail use if it ever becomes economonically viable; and (4) preventing adverse possession claims being made on public land.

The greenway proposals deserve at least the same amount of government time as those promoted by West On Track and if they are not receiving such time, then one has a right to query why that is the case. My personal view is that advocating a rural train service to the exclusion of all other uses of the track bed that might benefit the local economies bordering the disused line is to fly in the face of what might benefit those economies in the here and now.

Copyerselveson · 23-10-2013 3:37pm

At this stage it would be best to write to the Mayo County Manager and make that case, if you haven't done so already.

errigalclimber · 23-10-2013 3:41pm

Will happily write to the County Manager, Copyerselveson.

corktina · 23-10-2013 3:47pm

errigalclimber wrote: »

Let's be clear, track laying on the Limerick to Galway line was ongoing in 2009, one year after the collapse of Lehman Brothers. So millions of investment on the Limerick to Galway section were taking place as the financial crisis had unfolded. It was a disgraceful ordering of priorities given especially what has emerged in respect of the line's patronage.

In response to another posting above, I do not believe that West On Track is a quasi-governmental body. Indeed, it is because they are not such a body that I question their apparent access to the Minister in the pictures they have posted on their website of the opening of Oranmore Station - it is as if this unlected lobbying group takes credit for an important aspect of Government transport policy costing the Irish taxpayer millions.

West On Track as a group does not have a monopoly on ideas for the use of the disused section of line from Athenry. The proposals for greenway have the benefit of: (1) attracting footfall now and not some indeterminate time in the future, (2) benefiting local communities and rural economies now and not some indeterminate time in the future; (3) preserving the trackbed for potential future rail use if it ever becomes economonically viable; and (4) preventing adverse possession claims being made on public land.

The greenway proposals deserve at least the same amount of government time as those promoted by West On Track and if they are not receiving such time, then one has a right to query why that is the case. My personal view is that advocating a rural train service to the exclusion of all other uses of the track bed that might benefit the local economies bordering the disused line is to fly in the face of what might benefit those economies in the here and now.

i'm going to pick you up here again as misinformation will not help your cause. Tracklaying was completed in 2009 having started in I think 2006. Thus the bulk of the €103 million was spent before the bubble burst

errigalclimber · 23-10-2013 3:54pm

Corktina, I have no issues with you picking me up, goodness me I want to be as accurate as I can be. I understand that the expenditure started in earnest in the 2006/2007 financial year. The sub-prime bubble burst in 2007, Lehmans collapsed in 2008 and therefore by definition a significant amount of expenditure occurred in a time of financial crisis. I don't think it is a stretch to reach that conclusion. Also, in repect of tracklaying, I understand that a significant amount of track had to be relaid in 2009 due to flooding.

But spending €100m of public money on such a project with such limited projected returns and with such poor projected journey times at any time, even in boom times, in my view, was not an appropriate prioritising of public spending.

corktina · 23-10-2013 4:02pm

i'm fully in agreement with you over this waste of our tax money for years to come. I just don't want the argument on here, which has remained remarkably pure , to be tripped up with facts not being fully presented (in marked contrast to the dirty tricks of other organisations.)

errigalclimber · 23-10-2013 4:04pm

Completely understand Corktina and appreciated. As for the "pureness" of the argument, the reference above to "a few lads playing trains" I don't think does justice to such a profligate waste of public money at the behest of a lobbying organisation.

relaxed · 23-10-2013 4:29pm

errigalclimber wrote: »

Completely understand Corktina and appreciated. As for the "pureness" of the argument, the reference above to "a few lads playing trains" I don't think does justice to such a profligate waste of public money at the behest of a lobbying organisation.

The €100m was long spent before austerity hit the streets of Ireland. That makes your argument look misguided.

As regards lobbying, the greenway people met the minister too, so that makes your argument look even more misguided

Banging on about this being inappropriate lobbying when its a photograph of a minister with a community group makes the whole letter look like a rant, which is exactly what it is.

Your letter is poorly researched, poorly written and inaccurate. How much of my taxpayers money will be wasted dealing with it?

serfboard · 23-10-2013 4:31pm

errigalclimber wrote: »

I question their apparent access to the Minister in the pictures they have posted on their website of the opening of Oranmore Station

They don't have access to the Minister.

They showed up on the day. That's all. If the Tuam Greenway or Sligo-Mayo Greenway campaigns (or indeed, anyone) had shown up on the day and asked the Minister could they have a photo with him, he would have done the same.

Anyway, let's look at the photo. There are five people in it. One is the Minister. Another is someone from IE. Another is Tom McHugh, a Fine Gael county councillor and unsuccessful General Election candidate, who no doubt thought he would get his photo in the local papers. Tom is a builder-turned-hotelier and is a WOT supporter, hosting their recent conference in the hotel he owns.

The fourth person in the photo I can't identify.

And last, but not least, is Colman, who, in the absence of the priest, is West On Track.

So, to say the photo is "Members of West on Track pictured with Transport Minister" is stretching credibility - unless Colman has taken to referring to himself in the plural?

errigalclimber · 23-10-2013 4:38pm

Relaxed, the €100m was manifestly still being spent as the sub-prime bubble burst in 2007. That is fact - it is not misguided, it is self evident.

Did the greenway advocates meet Mr Varadker? I understand they met a junior minister and received a letter from Mr Varadker, but I have no personal knowlege of this, only what I have read. I certainly have not seen photos of them standing with Mr Varadker by the Hornby level crossing "gates" in Tubercurry, or by those parts of the disused line that are subject to adverse posession.

My question to the Minister is aimed at finding out whether preferential access is being given to West On Track. If such preferential access is being given, then that needs to be explained as West On Track does not have a monopoly in presenting "community" views. My "rant" is a rational critique of what is, in my view, a wholly profligate and inappropriate spending of public money on a project with marginal (at best) benefits to the public which has led to empty trains taking two hours to run from Limerick to Galway and back.

You are entitled to your view of course, but making personal remarks as to my being "misguided", "ranting" and "banging on" hardly demonstrates a willingness to engage in rational discussion. I will let others judge if my letter is poorly researched, poorly written and inaccurate. Personally, I think it is bang on.

errigalclimber · 23-10-2013 4:42pm

Serfboard, the caption to the photo on the West On Track website refers, and I quote, to "Members [plural] of West on Track pictured with Transport Minister Leo Varadkar TD and Jim Meade, Director, Rail Undertaking, Iarnród Éireann."

So, if it is stretching credibility it is not me doing the stretching!

serfboard · 23-10-2013 4:44pm

errigalclimber wrote: »

Serfboard, the caption to the photo on the West On Track website refers, and I quote, to "Members [plural] of West on Track pictured with Transport Minister Leo Varadkar TD and Jim Meade, Director, Rail Undertaking, Iarnród Éireann."

So, if it is stretching credibility it is not me doing the stretching!

Agreed. The quote I used was from their website.

errigalclimber · 23-10-2013 4:51pm

And I can understand WOT wishing to publicise their advocacy and perhaps even wishing to take credit, but I want to ensure that the alternative view receives a fair hearing, at Ministerial level and otherwise.

what_traffic · 23-10-2013 5:08pm

What a greenway can mean to a local economy.
Picture and caption says it all. Was taken Saturday the 12th of October at the Mulranny Park Hotel

RT @galwaycycling Pile of bikes on the Western #Greenway at the Mulranny Park Hotel at 14h40 today.
https://twitter.com/GalwayCycling/status/389023748797775872/photo/1/large?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=GalwayCycling&utm_content=389023748797775872

relaxed · 23-10-2013 6:09pm

errigalclimber wrote: »

Relaxed, the €100m was manifestly still being spent as the sub-prime bubble burst in 2007. That is fact - it is not misguided, it is self evident.

Did the greenway advocates meet Mr Varadker? I understand they met a junior minister and received a letter from Mr Varadker, but I have no personal knowlege of this, only what I have read. I certainly have not seen photos of them standing with Mr Varadker by the Hornby level crossing "gates" in Tubercurry, or by those parts of the disused line that are subject to adverse posession.

My question to the Minister is aimed at finding out whether preferential access is being given to West On Track. If such preferential access is being given, then that needs to be explained as West On Track does not have a monopoly in presenting "community" views. My "rant" is a rational critique of what is, in my view, a wholly profligate and inappropriate spending of public money on a project with marginal (at best) benefits to the public which has led to empty trains taking two hours to run from Limerick to Galway and back.

You are entitled to your view of course, but making personal remarks as to my being "misguided", "ranting" and "banging on" hardly demonstrates a willingness to engage in rational discussion. I will let others judge if my letter is poorly researched, poorly written and inaccurate. Personally, I think it is bang on.

There was no indication of austerity in Ireland when this €100m was being spent, which is what your letter is claiming.

Linking Lehmen brothers to rebuilding Ennis - Athenry is stretching it a long way!!!

errigalclimber · 23-10-2013 6:25pm

Relaxed, you are manifestly wrong, but we will simply have to agree to differ.

eastwest · 23-10-2013 8:58pm

relaxed wrote: »

There was no indication of austerity in Ireland when this €100m was being spent, which is what your letter is claiming.

Linking Lehmen brothers to rebuilding Ennis - Athenry is stretching it a long way!!!

I think what is really relevant is not what happened in the past, but what may happen in the future.
Clearly, given the failure of Ennis-Athenry to deliver numbers, no government is going to squander further taxpayer funds on compounding the error.
When you add to that the fact that no government ever planned to do anything with the Claremorris-Collooney route, and the veiled hint by Leo Varadkar when he said that his priority was to keep existing lines open, anyone who looks at this dispassionately can see that the so-called 'western rail corridor' is off the table for decades, at best. The Claremorris-Collooney route was unviable in an era when nobody had a car; what chance would it have now?
Varadkar would clearly love to close Ennis-Athenry and other loss-makers, but the clamour from the assortment of bishops and rail buffs wouldn't be worth it. He won't give them any more toys to play with though; the first bit will be the last bit.
It's a pity that the local politicians in Mayo and Sligo are so locked into the railway promise that they can't see the possibilities of tourism, but that's how it is, and nobody will change that.
By comparison, I see that many of the Kerry councillors who were opposed to a greenway on the Listowel line have changed sides quietly this week, following a door-to -door survey that showed almost 90% of residents to be in favour of the greenway. Could the Sligo and Mayo councillors make the same U-turn, or have they built careers on promising trains?
Are they just a lot 'cuter' in Kerry?

Victor · 24-10-2013 12:39am

Grandeeod wrote: »

I know nothing except that these WRC people directly and indirectly are off the planet more than the moon! What upsets me most is the fact that WRC supportive posters here can be easily identified from their "likes" under extremely sad posts on that facebook page. They come on here and avail of a reasonably free to debate facility, cause mayhem, bans, infractions etc. but on that facebook page they are protected from any debate whatsoever. But thats the internet for you.

Personally I'd like to see them in the open and up for public debate with their faces seen and opinions backed up by real names. Put it on TV, because I guarantee you that every last one of them will be found wanting. The WRC campaign has to be the most spineless example of campaigning ever. Full of spin and hiding from the reality that exists. Its tantamount to (actually I cant say it for fear of a ban on boards).

Do not insult people.

Do not speculate on peoples' identities.

Moderator

serfboard · 24-10-2013 10:17am

eastwest wrote: »

have they built careers on promising trains?

Yes.

However, I can't see why they can't just roll out the standard excuse of "them lot in Dublin etc. etc." and say that since there's no funding "coming down the tracks" (;)) for the railway, we might as well try and make use of it somehow ...

galwaycyclist · 24-10-2013 11:02am

eastwest wrote: »

Are they just a lot 'cuter' in Kerry?

Part of the issue in Kerry may be that the County Council and the NRA just got a very bloody nose and much egg on faces regarding the N86 upgrade on the Dingle peninsula.

They spent EU1million on a road upgrade proposal that included putting "tourist cycle paths" directly beside a national road - with the cyclists 1-2m away from HGVs doing 100km/h. An Bord Pleanala threw out the cycle path and then threw out the whole thing.

So now as a result of trying to be "cute" and trying to avoid using the old Dingle railway alignment for the cycle path - they have lost the whole road scheme.

If they had come up with a plan to put the cycle path on a separate alignment and do the road separately they could have gotten both. Now they have nothing to show for their 1million.

Perhaps reality is sinking home in Kerry?

eastwest · 24-10-2013 11:59am

Reality sinks in a lot more slowly in the west, I'm afraid.

Copyerselveson · 24-10-2013 12:34pm

Looks like Galway County Council won't support the Greenway proposals.

Greenway Project ‘is not even on Minister’s radar’

By TONY GALVIN
TUAM HERALD

24 October 2013

A GREENWAY for Tuam and its environs along the disused rail corridor is not "even on the Minister's radar" and the focus is entirely on building a cycle route from Dublin to Galway and out as far as Clifden in Connemara.

This was stated by Athenry-based Cllr Peter Feeney who told Monday's meeting of Galway Co Council that he had this information from Transport Minister Leo Varadkar's own mouth and he agreed fully with him on this.

He was speaking during a debate which was prompted by Tuam-based Cllr Shaun Cunniffe's attempts to at least get a local group's proposal to develop a cycling and walking path along sections of the rail line mentioned in the County Development Plan as a possible option.

Earlier attempts to have the Greenway proposal adopted, or even considered, have been roundly rejected by the council, which is resolutely behind the Western Rail Corridor campaign. They hope to see the Athenry -Claremorris line reopened and again connecting Tuam to the national network.

However, Cllr Cunniffe was steadfast in his advocacy of the Greenway proposal. He argued that there was little likelihood of the rail link being reopened, even with the existing road infrastructure in place; but with the Gort-Tuarn M17 motorway
in the pipeline, there was absolutely none. His concern was that the cycle and walking plan was being excluded from the county's plans and this was unnecessarily restricting their options for development, especially tourism and recreational development.

Director of Services Kevin Kelly pointed out that this argument had been made several times in the past and had been rejected by Cllr Cunniffe's colleagues each time. He added that it would seem counter-productive for the council to support the rail campaign while prejudicing this goal by putting a counter-proposal forward.

Peter Feeney said he found it astonishing that anyone should suggest they should settle for an inferior transport system in the West, especially a public representative. He argued that the proper development of all infrastructure in the region, roads, rail and broadband, could prove a counterbalance to the sprawling and unsustainable expansion of Dublin and the East coast.

"We're looking at peak oil and are going to have to change our attitude to transport. The car is on the way out and mass public transport is the way of the future. This is not a time to jettison a vital artery of ourinfrastructure. Rail is already being used by companies such as Coca Cola, Coillte and Baxter in Mayo. We need to be lobbying harder, not giving up,” he argued.

There were appeals for the Tuam Greenway group to sit down with rail campaigners and see if an alternative Greenway route could be found, but it was made clear that the vast majority of members remained fully in support of the rail campaign and Cllr Cunniffe received no support for his argument.

www.tuamherald.ie

MayoForSam · 24-10-2013 12:50pm

The car is on the way out and mass public transport is the way of the future

Good luck with that one :rolleyes:

I'm really hoping a few of those Galway county councilors turn up on my doorstep next year before the elections so I make a few candid points about the difference between pragmatism and romanticism when it comes to transport, civic amenities and tourist infrastructure in the west.

Personally I would love it if some day we discovered about 10 billion barrels of oil off west Mayo, the entire western seaboard became California overnight and the population increased tenfold to make mass transport viable but I don't see it happening.

I'd be the first one on the train for my daily 50 mile commute to Ballina. But I'd prefer the odd cycle over to Milltown at the weekend and that might actually come to be some day in the not too distant future.

corktina · 24-10-2013 2:11pm

Quote"We're looking at peak oil and are going to have to change our attitude to transport. The car is on the way out and mass public transport is the way of the future. This is not a time to jettison a vital artery of ourinfrastructure. Rail is already being used by companies such as Coca Cola, Coillte and Baxter in Mayo. We need to be lobbying harder, not giving up,” he argued.Unquote

Peak oil-smoil. Electric cars are already here and will replace oil-fired cars eventually. It won't be The Train that does this or even The Bus. As I never miss an opportunity to point out, Roads lead to everyone's front door and destination. Public Transport is not most people's mode of choice. Most would prefer their own personal transport and that won't change.

Tuam Greenway Project · 24-10-2013 2:25pm

Copyerselveson wrote: »

Looks like Galway County Council won't support the Greenway proposals.

www.tuamherald.ie

Not that I was counting:)- but 8 out of the last 10 posts on the West on Track FB page relate to Greenways. Practically ALL media reports on the WRC in the last 6 months relate to Greenways, bar references to Oranmore Station ( which isn't really on the WRC) . So I'd say unless the Greenway campaigners are planning to go away anytime soon ( and we are not ) the Greenway v nothing debate will endure. Unless of course there is a major rail announcement eminent from Mayo Co Co.

Laviski · 24-10-2013 2:29pm

corktina wrote: »

Quote"We're looking at peak oil and are going to have to change our attitude to transport. The car is on the way out and mass public transport is the way of the future. This is not a time to jettison a vital artery of ourinfrastructure. Rail is already being used by companies such as Coca Cola, Coillte and Baxter in Mayo. We need to be lobbying harder, not giving up,” he argued.Unquote

Peak oil-smoil. Electric cars are already here and will replace oil-fired cars eventually. It won't be The Train that does this or even The Bus. As I never miss an opportunity to point out, Roads lead to everyone's front door and destination. Public Transport is not most people's mode of choice. Most would prefer their own personal transport and that won't change.

I think you should run for politics next round you sure do love stating the same thing in this thread and a few others do over and over. If not politics i think Micheal o Leary is hiring too as every statement he makes always contains the same phrases. Please bring something new to this thread than repeating yourself over.

corktina · 24-10-2013 2:33pm

there is nothing new to bring to this debate. You may not like it but the fact is that the WRC is a non-starter, Rail has limited uses at which it does well, a local low speed line serving tiny villages is not one of these.

Instead of attacking my post with comments of no substance, why don't you try refuting the substance of it?

Laviski · 24-10-2013 2:49pm

corktina wrote: »

there is nothing new to bring to this debate. You may not like it but the fact is that the WRC is a non-starter, Rail has limited uses at which it does well, a local low speed line serving tiny villages is not one of these.

Instead of attacking my post with comments of no substance, why don't you try refuting the substance of it?

just stating facts like yourself.

and for starters i would think it would be best to examine any stations that are being under utilized by the population it serves and reduce or close the service, if the result would increase times between the higher population centers. but i firmly believe that connecting galway to limerick/claremorris by rail is a good thing but Irish Rail need to address their price structure and not having online fares for such a length of time is just crazy.

Copyerselveson · 24-10-2013 2:54pm

I think there needs to be a discussion on the future of motor transport in general. I am quite interested in the ongoing evolution of electric cars, however I think while electric cars will ultimately take over from combustion engine based cars, there's no reason to think they will also completely kill off rail transport. 100+ years of personal motor transport still hasn't done that.

I can't think of any reason why electric cars will be adopted any quicker in the west than any other part of the country. I think they will be adopted at more or less the same pace nationally.

Will freight be carried in electric lorries? Maybe. But I do think for bulk freight, rail is the best option. It's certainly good enough for the Ballina - Waterford liner trains and a connection from Ballina to Claremorris, down to Athenry and along to Waterford via Clonmel would be possible rather than via Athlone and Cherryville as at present.

corktina · 24-10-2013 3:14pm

Laviski wrote: »

just stating facts like yourself.

and for starters i would think it would be best to examine any stations that are being under utilized by the population it serves and reduce or close the service, if the result would increase times between the higher population centers. but i firmly believe that connecting galway to limerick/claremorris by rail is a good thing but Irish Rail need to address their price structure and not having online fares for such a length of time is just crazy.

you weren't stating facts, you were launching a personal attack, a tactic seen before on here.

I firmly believe in rail transport between major concentrations of populations, but NOT on a half-hearted slow, indirect line such as Galway to Limerick. It was money wasted which could have been better spent elsewhere, for the benefit of 8 through passengers per train on average. Ask yourself , if passenger figures from city 3 to city 4 are so low, how many will ride to Claremorris?

corktina · 24-10-2013 3:16pm

Copyerselveson wrote: »

I think there needs to be a discussion on the future of motor transport in general. I am quite interested in the ongoing evolution of electric cars, however I think while electric cars will ultimately take over from combustion engine based cars, there's no reason to think they will also completely kill off rail transport. 100+ years of personal motor transport still hasn't done that.

I can't think of any reason why electric cars will be adopted any quicker in the west than any other part of the country. I think they will be adopted at more or less the same pace nationally.

Will freight be carried in electric lorries? Maybe. But I do think for bulk freight, rail is the best option. It's certainly good enough for the Ballina - Waterford liner trains and a connection from Ballina to Claremorris, down to Athenry and along to Waterford via Clonmel would be possible rather than via Athlone and Cherryville as at present.

what purpose would such a diversion have other than to justify expenditure on the WRC?

errigalclimber · 24-10-2013 3:18pm

I copied the West On Track email into my letter to the Minister yesterday. Colmán Ó Raghallaigh responded to me yesterday, saying he would repond substantively just as soon as I had provided to him my "business address as a solicitor" (I mentioned in my email to the Minister that as a lawyer I understand the law of adverse possession) and my telephone numbers.

I provided my 'phone number, my home address (as I write in a personal capacity), I made it clear that I write in a friendly and constructive manner and I get a response this afternoon talking of how "vicious the greenway campaign has been against the Western Rail Corridor Project and anyone who disagrees with them" and how it is a "little late in the day" for them [the greenway campaigners including myself presumably] to pretend otherwise.

For the record, I have not been "vicious" to West On Track or anyone else. I want to see the disused Western Rail Corridor used as a greenway as I believe that the local communities bordering the line will benefit from that economically now and not at some time in the future when most of the trackbed will likely have been lost to adverse possession claims.

Why cannot this issue be debated constructively? As I wrote to Colmán Ó Raghallaigh yesterday, the greenway campaingers and WOT have at least four things in common, as follows:

1. they clearly care about the local community;

2. they want to help the local economy;

3. they want the track bed preserved; and

4. they want the disused line to be put to economic use.

Greenway now and rail use in the future are not mutually exclusive aims, indeed they are fully complementary, but this is something that WOT do not appear willing to accept. I despair at this.

I remain willing to debate the issues constructively, but is there any point?!

Incidentally, having provided my credentials to Colmán Ó Raghallaigh as requested, the same courtesy was not extended to me. I still have no idea who West On Track are, who their members are, where they are based and who Colmán Ó Raghallaigh is.

Laviski · 24-10-2013 3:39pm

corktina wrote: »

you weren't stating facts, you were launching a personal attack, a tactic seen before on here.

I firmly believe in rail transport between major concentrations of populations, but NOT on a half-hearted slow, indirect line such as Galway to Limerick. It was money wasted which could have been better spent elsewhere, for the benefit of 8 through passengers per train on average. Ask yourself , if passenger figures from city 3 to city 4 are so low, how many will ride to Claremorris?

not attacking just tired of reading the same comments from you on both threads you repeat and repeat, just asking to bring a bit more discussion to the table that stating the same thing over again that is all. variety is the spice of life n all....

since this thread is focused on the disused section if the line does reopen it should only serve tuam and claremorris. And at least from claremorries you can get a connecting train. Restoring the WRC fully is a pipe dream that will and probably should not happen. But opening a line stopping in villiages is bound to failure much like the stations created between ennis and athenry.

Laviski · 24-10-2013 3:52pm

should also note that the train stations in both towns are located 5 mins walk from the town center.

Copyerselveson · 24-10-2013 3:53pm

errigalclimber wrote: »

For the record, I have not been "vicious" to West On Track or anyone else.

Incidentally, having provided my credentials to Colmán Ó Raghallaigh as requested, the same courtesy was not extended to me. I still have no idea who West On Track are, who their members are, where they are based and who Colmán Ó Raghallaigh is.

A google will tell you exactly who West on Track and Colmán Ó Raghallaigh is. Meanwhile you yourself have used the words "Sinister" regarding WOT in your earlier posts.

corktina · 24-10-2013 4:01pm

Laviski wrote: »

not attacking just tired of reading the same comments from you on both threads you repeat and repeat, just asking to bring a bit more discussion to the table that stating the same thing over again that is all. variety is the spice of life n all....

since this thread is focused on the disused section if the line does reopen it should only serve tuam and claremorris. And at least from claremorries you can get a connecting train. Restoring the WRC fully is a pipe dream that will and probably should not happen. But opening a line stopping in villiages is bound to failure much like the stations created between ennis and athenry.

you ask for more discussion and yet ignore my question on how many will ride to Claremorris when the re-opened section is averaging 8 persons per train between two Cities

Tuam Greenway Project · 24-10-2013 4:03pm

Laviski wrote: »

not attacking just tired of reading the same comments from you on both threads you repeat and repeat, just asking to bring a bit more discussion to the table that stating the same thing over again that is all. variety is the spice of life n all....

since this thread is focused on the disused section if the line does reopen it should only serve tuam and claremorris. And at least from claremorries you can get a connecting train. Restoring the WRC fully is a pipe dream that will and probably should not happen. But opening a line stopping in villiages is bound to failure much like the stations created between ennis and athenry.

You are making the argument for so called anti-rail campaigners. There is absolutley no prospect of a commuter rail from Claremorris to Athenry - even West on Track now accept this and are focusing only on freight rail north of Tuam. As for comuter rail from Tuam via Athenry, most Tuam people will tell you, if anyone cared to ask them, that outside of car use, the hourly Burkes Bus service that serves all the major industries in the city at times that best suit commuters is a much better prospect than a longer and limited commute via Athenry & dropping you in the city centre with further bus journeys neccessary.

galwaycyclist · 24-10-2013 4:07pm

Copyerselveson wrote: »

A google will tell you exactly who West on Track and Colmán Ó Raghallaigh is. Meanwhile you yourself have used the words "Sinister" regarding WOT in your earlier posts.

I took that advice - apparently Colmán Ó Raghallaigh is a publisher of childrens books. Why a publisher of childrens books would be opposed to a greenway escapes me.

Perhaps in the zero sum world of western local rivalries he is afraid that children who are out getting healthy exercise cannot therefore be at home reading his books?

serfboard · 24-10-2013 4:22pm

Tuam Greenway Project wrote: »

As for comuter rail from Tuam ... the hourly Burkes Bus service that serves all the major industries in the city at times that best suit commuters is a much better prospect than a longer and limited commute via Athenry & dropping you in the city centre with further bus journeys neccessary.

+1.

And if that's not enough, there are Bus Eireann services as well.

errigalclimber · 24-10-2013 5:09pm

Copyerselveson, Google searching West on Track simply does not explain who WOT are - who is a member, what is their constitution, who funds them, etc. It is "community based" apparently, but aren't all of the concerns raised about the disused line community based or oriented?

I used the word "sinister" to describe the anonymity of a lobbying organisation with such a loud voice and I felt the same adjective was appropriate today in being asked for my professional address and telephone numbers before WOT would reply to my email, particularly when that courtesy was not extended to me.

serfboard · 24-10-2013 5:19pm

The Galway Advertiser wrote:

Councillors call for Tuam to Athenry railway to be protected in Galway County Development Plan

Protecting infrastructure such as the Tuam to Athenry railway line is one step in ensuring that future investment and development in the west is not put at risk, that is according to the majority of county councillors who fiercely disagreed with suggestions that hopes of one day reopening the line should be abandoned and a greenway put in its place.

The greenway versss railway debate came up at the monthly meeting of the Galway County Council this week

I don't like this being referred to as a "Greenway Vs Railway" debate as it was in the advertiser. (Mind you, I think that's the way WOT would put it).

"Greenway until Railway" would be much better. That way, the alignment gets protected and we get to use it until some time, in a land far, far away, the funding gets released to turn it into a railway. (And even then, the current alignment would not be suitable anyway).

corktina · 24-10-2013 5:37pm

Greenway AND Railway is perfectly feasible

errigalclimber · 24-10-2013 5:41pm

Great photo Corktina. My favourite route along a disused line is the path from Annecy to Albertville - it is truly stunning:

http://http://www.cycling-challenge.com/annecy-to-albertville-cycling-path/

corktina · 24-10-2013 5:48pm

errigalclimber wrote: »

Great photo Corktina. My favourite route along a disused line is the path from Annecy to Albertville - it is truly stunning:

http://http://www.cycling-challenge.com/annecy-to-albertville-cycling-path/

in my view it's the Clincher in the argument. Sure there may be clearance problems in a few places, but I'm quite sure it would be possible to run the Greenway around theses places, mostly these will be bridges I would guess, in which case you slope the Greenway up (or down) to the roadway and install some form of crossing.

Copyerselveson · 24-10-2013 5:55pm

errigalclimber wrote: »

Copyerselveson, Google searching West on Track simply does not explain who WOT are - who is a member, what is their constitution, who funds them, etc. It is "community based" apparently, but aren't all of the concerns raised about the disused line community based or oriented?

I used the word "sinister" to describe the anonymity of a lobbying organisation with such a loud voice and I felt the same adjective was appropriate today in being asked for my professional address and telephone numbers before WOT would reply to my email, particularly when that courtesy was not extended to me.

Well you did copy them in on an email questioning the appropriateness of the Minister posing for pictures with members of West on Track. If I had been Colmán O Raghallagh my response to you would not have been so civil.

Copyerselveson · 24-10-2013 6:00pm

Corktina has put up a nice picture but that looks like a former double track railway with one track converted to a cycle and walking path.

The WRC is for the most part a single track railway with relatively little clearance in parts. Certainly not enough for an operational railway to run in tandem with a cycle path safely.

The Foyle Valley Railway was shut down when Derry City Council installed a parallel path I seem to recall.

Tuam Greenway Project · 24-10-2013 6:25pm

corktina wrote: »

Greenway AND Railway is perfectly feasible

http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2012/may/06/mawddach-trail-bike-ride

I've been on this one with my kids when the train passes - nice rush.

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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