Chevy Spark EV 90 miles range @100 kph

08-09-2013 11:34am #1

Not bad at all and it will still have decent winter range because the battery is heated, sure the heater will consume energy but it should still have at least 80 odd miles range. Which would be a lot better than the Leaf.

The Spark can also fast charge 10 mins quicker than the Leaf too 0-80% in 20 mins.

The test was done with no heat and a/c just the fan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPsgnI4vRoQ

The spark will be really good fun to drive 400 lbs torque, at the wheel ? I don't know I just go by any car advertising whatever torque, it's a lot anyway and way more than most cars on the road.

SO from Carlow Town to Drogheda is 83.3 miles, there are no fast chargers so you'll have to charge at around Lusk, about 67 miles, and then it's another 90 miles to Belfast.

So you'd have to charge twice, but each time should be less than 20 mins if the 20 min charge time is correct, you'll arrive at the Lusk charger with 20-30% range left and more at the Drogheda charger.

SO Carlow Town to Belfast can be done with maybe 30 mins extra to charge in total, That's around 160 miles and you can fast charge the Spark many times a day, every day according to GM.

Major inconvenience to some people but it can be done, to me for the odd long trip it's ideal. Now if I only had the cash

But hold on, there is a major obstacle to over come.

The Europeans and the American Auto companies decided to abandon the Japanese CHAdeMO fast charging standard in favour of the SAE standard.

What does that mean ?

It means the the current fast charge infrastructure in Europe and the U.S will be incomparable with the Spark EV, BMW I3, VW E-UP, E-Golf etc, basically all future E.U and U.S fully electric cars.

I have not found out yet if they can use the non fast charge public infrastructure. I.E the smaller green/white street chargers.

I also can't find out if there will be some kind of adaptor to allow charging from current fast chargers.

So the ESB will now have to source dual chargers or have 2 different systems side by side or abandon future fast chargers compatible with the Leaf/Imev.

It could seriously delay the roll out of the fast charging infrastructure, however the new SAE standard will allow for 240 kw charging compared to 50 kw with the current CHAdeMo standard.

240 kw would mean you could charge your leaf to 80% from 0 in <5 mins if it were capable.

Max Power1 · 08-09-2013 11:50am

Range still too small to be heralding as the "future" of EV motoring

It is a move in the right direction, but not enough yet to be a viable alternative form of transport

08-09-2013 12:05pm

You won't be buying it then Max, it's perfectly viable for most people, that is when there is a fast charge network compatible for the likes of the Spark.

Personally I'd rather a much cheaper car that will do 95% of my driving than a much more expensive car.

For the 5% I can fast charge, no big deal to me, If we're going to the West, say to Galway from my house is about 124 miles so would mean a single 20 min charge. We would normally stop for a bite to eat or coffee along the way anyway or stop and see some sights.

Going to Belfast , 2 x 10 min charges are not going to seriously effect my sanity for the rare times we're up north.

Going to Donegal ? still possible. However I stress that this is with the existing charging network.

I only hope that the ESB can figure out the bast and quickest way of installing the quick chargers for SAE compatible cars as currently there are a fair few QC points installed and more to come by 2014.

If I were the ESB I would not continue to spend millions on a Quick charge network that is only compatible with, lets face it what, 100 or less total E.V's in Ireland ? can anyone tell me how many exactly ?

It must be a complete headache now for the ESB !

166man · 08-09-2013 12:09pm

A figure of X amount of lb/ft of torque is hardly going to make it a great car to drive. Swift off the line, maybe but I can't see it being a drivers car in any single sense of the word.

Range is too small too, I think maybe as a second car they might work, but how many people are pumping €15k+ into a second car to runabout in? Not many Id have thought...

Yawlboy · 08-09-2013 12:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If I were the ESB I would not continue to spend millions on a Quick charge network that is only compatible with, lets face it what, 100 or less total E.V's in Ireland ? can anyone tell me how many exactly ?

I read recently that there were 259 EV's registered in Ireland since 2009. See link > http://www.thejournal.ie/electric-cars-charge-points-970659-Jun2013/

Mycroft H · 08-09-2013 12:17pm

It's still kinda rubbish to be fair. When it can do Dublin to Galway in a single go I'll be impressed. As of now? Nope, not yet. Still massive room for improvement.

08-09-2013 12:17pm

166man wrote: »

A figure of X amount of lb/ft of torque is hardly going to make it a great car to drive. Swift off the line, maybe but I can't see it being a drivers car in any single sense of the word.

Maybe maybe not but you got to experience instant torque of electic cars before you can comment, all I can say was the Leaf was really fun, not going to break any records of course but the power delivery is a lot difference so you can't make direct comparisons.

I can only imagine that the Spark having twice the torque would be just mental.

That torque by the way is instantly available at all speeds.

166man wrote: »

Range is too small too, I think maybe as a second car they might work, but how many people are pumping €15k+ into a second car to runabout in? Not many Id have thought...

If I could afford it I'd be selling the Prius and the Spark would be my main car.

The greatest obstacle for now is the lack of fast chargers and the current ones won't work, though I'm still trying to find out if there will be some kind of adaptor.

If I was doing my old 80 miles a day commute i could just make it if those figures are correct, if not all I would need is 5 mins on a fast charger or less.

100 miles a day I would need 5 mins maybe a little more.

If someone parks at a Luas stop with ev charging, then no problem at all.

08-09-2013 12:21pm

Yawlboy wrote: »

I read recently that there were 259 EV's registered in Ireland since 2009. See link > http://www.thejournal.ie/electric-cars-charge-points-970659-Jun2013/

Thanks, so 60 fast chargers for 260 odd ev's. By the end of 2013,

SO I think they should not install another single fast charger unless it has dual ChadeMo (leaf/Imev) and SAE (all E.U/U.S) cars.

That's a lot of money for 260 cars for a charge system to be phased out !

08-09-2013 12:23pm

BX 19 wrote: »

It's still kinda rubbish to be fair. When it can do Dublin to Galway in a single go I'll be impressed. As of now? Nope, not yet. Still massive room for improvement.

What, you can't charge for 20 mins or less for what, 1-2 trips to Galway a year ?

galwaytt · 08-09-2013 12:26pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You won't be buying it then Max, it's perfectly viable for most people...

Sorry, but its not. That test was done with no heat or ac. That might work in Arizona,

With either heat or ac on the range would be pitiful.

And no vehicle here would usefully function without heat. Work it out: when was the last time you used a car with neither?

Mycroft H · 08-09-2013 12:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What, you can't charge for 20 mins or less for what, 1-2 trips to Galway a year ?

I travel a little bit more frequently than that.

For me until the range stretches beyond what would be my daily maximum mileage than no, it's just not practicable or reliable enough for me. Imagine you get home and you realise you've not got any tea. Simple, hop in the car and drive to the shops. Or not so simple, since you've drained your car on your daily commute and it's on the slow charge and won't be ready for a while. Or you've to run to the chemist/doctors late at night etc.

You just don't have that dependability of switching the key and driving off whenever you need to. I couldn't pay money for a car and not have that.

Max Power1 · 08-09-2013 12:32pm

galwaytt wrote: »

Sorry, but its not. That test was done with no heat or ac. That might work in Arizona,

With either heat or ac on the range would be pitiful.

And no vehicle here would usefully function without heat. Work it out: when was the last time you used a car with neither?

Finally a welcome retrieve from Mad_Lad's blinkered view on this topic

I've always said, give me an EV that can match the range on my car to even 50% and I would consider it. At the weekends for example I often go on fun random drives of 100-300 km. Not possible in the current ev (spark included, which dissapoints me having heard better things about it)

I would consider buying an EV with a range of 80-100km if it were cheap (like sub 5k cheap) and keeping it as a second car. It is just not viable as a first car for >90% of people - to believe otherwise is just delusion.

Think about it, if it were any way an option for people, it would have taken off like diesels did post '08. The average irish motorist wants "de cheep taaaax" and to pay less at the pumps. The EVs offer both of this, but yet they did not take off. Why? Because in their current format they are not a viable option.

08-09-2013 12:54pm

galwaytt wrote: »

Sorry, but its not. That test was done with no heat or ac. That might work in Arizona,

With either heat or ac on the range would be pitiful.

And no vehicle here would usefully function without heat. Work it out: when was the last time you used a car with neither?

No the range won't be pitiful with the heat on like the Leaf because the battery is heated which makes a much bigger difference than actually using the heat.

I don't know the actual consumption figures yet or if it's got a heat pump or not.

the A/C is pretty efficient anyway so it wouldn't be hard on the battery.

With the Leaf you got reduced range in the cold because the battery is not heated and the heater.

08-09-2013 12:59pm

BX 19 wrote: »

I travel a little bit more frequently than that.

For me until the range stretches beyond what would be my daily maximum mileage than no, it's just not practicable or reliable enough for me. Imagine you get home and you realise you've not got any tea. Simple, hop in the car and drive to the shops. Or not so simple, since you've drained your car on your daily commute and it's on the slow charge and won't be ready for a while. Or you've to run to the chemist/doctors late at night etc.

You just don't have that dependability of switching the key and driving off whenever you need to. I couldn't pay money for a car and not have that.

You'll still get home with plenty of range left.

If I'm charging at fast charger or Luas I'll still have plenty of range left for a trip to the shops etc. and way more.

I would certainly not return home with a battery so empty that I couldn't make it to the shops after an 80-100 mile commute !

08-09-2013 1:09pm

Max Power1 wrote: »

Finally a welcome retrieve from Mad_Lad's blinkered view on this topic

I've always said, give me an EV that can match the range on my car to even 50% and I would consider it. At the weekends for example I often go on fun random drives of 100-300 km. Not possible in the current ev (spark included, which dissapoints me having heard better things about it)

I would consider buying an EV with a range of 80-100km if it were cheap (like sub 5k cheap) and keeping it as a second car. It is just not viable as a first car for >90% of people - to believe otherwise is just delusion.

Think about it, if it were any way an option for people, it would have taken off like diesels did post '08. The average irish motorist wants "de cheep taaaax" and to pay less at the pumps. The EVs offer both of this, but yet they did not take off. Why? Because in their current format they are not a viable option.

I guarantee you matt, if you couldn't afford to run your 30 mpg 535D if diesel got so high you would have no choice to switch if petrol and diesel got that expensive.

This is the thing that most effects ev adoption is the fact petrol and diesel is still far too cheap for most people but the longer distance commuter.

If people decided enough, I can't afford to or am not willing to shell out xxx amount on fuel a week you would see a far greater adoption.

Currently as I keep saying there is 0 incentive for most people to change because they can afford petrol/diesel and until the point comes where it gets unaffordable nobody will change to electric 200 mile range or not.

Fact is if I can do 80-160 miles a day in an ev I would hardly say that is not suitable for most of the population. And if I can QC along the way for the odd long trip even better.

Matt you're never going to change to electric because I bet you drive the 535 hard and are willing and can afford to spend a lot on diesel or you simply don't do the miles. That is up to you but the average motorist doesn't care about electric/petrol/diesel simply what they can afford or are willing to spend and currently petrol/diesel suits that fine.

08-09-2013 1:17pm

There is a lot of uncertainty and mis information on electric cars as far as the public are concerned, even the dealers are clueless about them.

I've had some people even say that they heard that they can't do more than 50 miles on the motorway and that the lights run down the battery.

I've heard some crap like "sure it's will run up me electric bill, and it's expensive enough" this has to be the one that makes me laugh the most. And I say how much do you put in your tank at the garage every week ? " eah around 50 euro" grand I say so how much is your electric bill ? "around 80 Euro's" right I say , do you know that 50 euro's is around 2,400 miles equivalent in electric ? "jaysus go away your joking " no I'm not !

Uncertainties remain about battery life also, this will not be over come for a while as data comes in but ev tech is changing so fast that if the Leaf battery lasts say 75,000 miles in no way reflects if the BMW I3, Spark etc won't do 200,000 miles.

Matt Simis · 08-09-2013 1:24pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The spark will be really good fun to drive 400 lbs torque, at the wheel ? I don't know I just go by any car advertising whatever torque, it's a lot anyway and way more than most cars on the road.

I thought we already explained to you how thats not a correct assumption based on the arbitrary "400 lbs torque" paper stat? :pac:
Chevy should be shot for the Marketing spin on this.

Fun fact: this mini car is best-in-class when it comes to torque, generating more than the Ferrari 458 Italia and Porsche Carrera S

Idiots. Real cars always quote peak BHP and torque at X RPM, Chevy dont as it undermines their BS.

This motor makes 540 Nm (402 ftlbf) of Torque at stall and out to about 2000 rpm.

The very high torque is motor performance that we are very proud of, and customers will notice the difference: (It has a gear reduction of 3.18 to 1, so the axle torque is the product of these two)

http://insideevs.com/gm-general-says-spark-evs-400lb-ft-of-torque-no-misprint/

Call a spade a spade, its an urban runabout with 130bhp. Lots of torque low down (peak torque at 2000rpm would be considered brutal in any performance application) makes for a car that springs off the line for the first 10m then bogs down. So if your definition of fun driving is accelerating in a Town from traffic light to traffic light quickly but at a low actual speed, then yeah, the Spark is awesome and better than many other cars. If you actually plan to do real driving on real roads, then its the opposite. Its all the worst characteristics of Diesel's power delivery.

Max Power1 · 08-09-2013 1:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I guarantee you matt, if you couldn't afford to run your 30 mpg 535D if diesel got so high you would have no choice to switch if petrol and diesel got that expensive.

This is the thing that most effects ev adoption is the fact petrol and diesel is still far too cheap for most people but the longer distance commuter.

If people decided enough, I can't afford to or am not willing to shell out xxx amount on fuel a week you would see a far greater adoption.

Currently as I keep saying there is 0 incentive for most people to change because they can afford petrol/diesel and until the point comes where it gets unaffordable nobody will change to electric 200 mile range or not.

Fact is if I can do 80-160 miles a day in an ev I would hardly say that is not suitable for most of the population. And if I can QC along the way for the odd long trip even better.

Matt you're never going to change to electric because I bet you drive the 535 hard and are willing and can afford to spend a lot on diesel or you simply don't do the miles. That is up to you but the average motorist doesn't care about electric/petrol/diesel simply what they can afford or are willing to spend and currently petrol/diesel suits that fine.

Dont know who Matt is! But I have already mentioned on pretty much every thread on EV's recently, give me one for 5k and it can take my work commuting miles, leaving me more fun miles in the 535 at the weekends.

I do roughly 30-40 k km per year. A lot of that is a 80km total commute (as in, there and back) daily to work. So for those journeys of course an EV is an option, a viable one, and one that I would avail of once I didnt have to sink 15k in to a fast updating technology. Give me an EV for 5k and I will take it.

Other driving I do is at the weekends, traction control off, foot to the floor, sideways :P Which would not be fun in an ev with no power. (or any ICE car with fwd and not much power either btw)

I'm never going to change to electric? If I wasnt in work I would go back through my post history and could find multiple posts saying I would consider an EV at the right price.

Max Power1 · 08-09-2013 1:31pm

Matt Simis wrote: »

Call a spade a spade, its an urban runabout with 130bhp. Lots of torque low down (peak torque at 2000rpm would be considered brutal in any performance application) makes for a car that springs off the line for the first 10m then bogs down. So if your definition of fun is driving accelerating in a Town from traffic light to traffic light quickly but at a low actual speed, then yeah, the Spark is awesome and better than many other cars. If you actually plan to do real driving on real roads, then its the opposite. Its all the worst characteristics of Diesel's power delivery.

Exaggerated to the nth degree. An average diesel like a vag exits useful power band at 3k rpm (lets leave exceptional bi- and tri-turbo ones out of this factor)

If that is reduced down to 2k rpm, then you have a very very narrow powerband, almost down to the point when it becomes dangerously underpowered imo.

Is there anywhere I can get a test drive in an EV?

Idbatterim · 08-09-2013 1:43pm

Is it not possible to have an extra battery that you could pop say into the boot of the car etc if you needed more range the odd time?

Days 298 · 08-09-2013 2:16pm

Couldn't the EV1 do between 70-90 miles per charge depending on conditions? Thats nearly 15 years ago at this stage. It's disappointing how slow progress on range is being made, if proper strides could be made petrol prices could come down gradually. If the range could be got to 200 miles then I could see them taking off hugely if the price was right.

08-09-2013 2:37pm

Why do I keep mixing up matt and Max ?

08-09-2013 2:40pm

Max Power1 wrote: »

I'm never going to change to electric? If I wasnt in work I would go back through my post history and could find multiple posts saying I would consider an EV at the right price.

True.

I wouldn't be willing to shell out so much in diesel though as you.

Max Power1 · 08-09-2013 2:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

True.

I wouldn't be willing to shell out so much in diesel though as you.

Well most of it is discretionary income. Like, I don't need to drive randomly down to wexford or something and take the back roads. But its a fun drive!

If I had to, I could cut my fuel bill by 50-60% without much effort at all. And it is that other 40 odd percent (perhaps it is less than 40%, I never calculate how much I spend on fuel) is where I could substitute in an EV.

Max Power1 wrote: »

Is there anywhere I can get a test drive in an EV?

Does anyone know the answer to this? Just to satisfy my curiosity

08-09-2013 2:55pm

Days 298 wrote: »

Couldn't the EV1 do between 70-90 miles per charge depending on conditions? Thats nearly 15 years ago at this stage. It's disappointing how slow progress on range is being made, if proper strides could be made petrol prices could come down gradually. If the range could be got to 200 miles then I could see them taking off hugely if the price was right.

No it had around 16 kwh battery so 60 max miles.

The Leaf for instance weighs about the same but with a 24 kwh battery but it's a fair bit bigger than the EV1

The Leaf battery is smaller. And much more powerful.

Lithium batteries offer much higher power densities and more energy densities than NiMh.

You do know that EV development was not going to happen 15 years ago because the idiots GM sold the Battery patents for the NiMh battery to Chevron Texaco who turned around to GM and said HA HA you can't use the battery.

Then Toyota were only allowed to make a battery big enough for hybrid only use and were strictly not allowed to make a battery electric car.

Still, I wonder what we would have got today if GM had not been so stupid, it could have sparked off a lot of research and a race into building better electric cars.

Nissan have started the ball rolling now because they released a 24 kwh battery other car makers did too, when Leaf Gen II comes in 2016 it will have more range and other car makers will follow.

08-09-2013 2:56pm

Max just go to Windsor Nissan on Belgard. That's where I test drove the Leaf.

Max Power1 · 08-09-2013 2:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No it had around 16 kwh battery so 60 max miles.

The Leaf for instance weighs about the same but with a 24 kwh battery but it's a fair bit bigger than the EV1

The Leaf battery is smaller. And much more powerful.

Lithium batteries offer much higher power densities and more energy densities than NiMh.

You do know that EV development was not going to happen 15 years ago because the idiots GM sold the Battery patents for the NiMh battery to Chevron Texaco who turned around to GM and said HA HA you can't use the battery.

Then Toyota were only allowed to make a battery big enough for hybrid only use and were strictly not allowed to make a battery electric car.

Still, I wonder what we would have got today if GM had not been so stupid, it could have sparked off a lot of research and a race into building better electric cars.

Nissan have started the ball rolling now because they released a 24 kwh battery other car makers did too, when Leaf Gen II comes in 2016 it will have more range and other car makers will follow.

Have they said what they expect the range to be? I would imagine that 200-250 miles of range would be a mental turning point for people. I think it is just the fact that the current range is in (or near to) double digits only. 200+ and you have pretty much everyone in Ireland as a potential customer!

Max Power1 · 08-09-2013 2:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Max just go to Windsor Nissan on Belgard. That's where I test drove the Leaf.

Might head down next weekend so. I'll tell 'em some mad lad from the internet sent me!

166man · 08-09-2013 3:07pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Maybe maybe not but you got to experience instant torque of electic cars before you can comment, all I can say was the Leaf was really fun, not going to break any records of course but the power delivery is a lot difference so you can't make direct comparisons.

I can only imagine that the Spark having twice the torque would be just mental.

That torque by the way is instantly available at all speeds.

If I could afford it I'd be selling the Prius and the Spark would be my main car.

The greatest obstacle for now is the lack of fast chargers and the current ones won't work, though I'm still trying to find out if there will be some kind of adaptor.

If I was doing my old 80 miles a day commute i could just make it if those figures are correct, if not all I would need is 5 mins on a fast charger or less.

100 miles a day I would need 5 mins maybe a little more.

If someone parks at a Luas stop with ev charging, then no problem at all.

You're still only looking at the car from how quickly it goes off the line. What about how it corners, stops, changes direction at the flick of your wrist etc. these are all things that make it a drivers car, not just torque. I can't see the Spark or the Leaf etc being in anyway fun to drive. I'd miss petrol power. The smell of burning fuel and rasping my twinspark right up to 7k revs.

See the Spark might work for you due to your specific routine, but everyone's is different. I'm not going to change my life routine for my car to save on emissions, your car is there to facilitate, not the other way around.

Life changes everyday and with the leaf/spark you'd need to be constantly thinking ahead of when you need to stop where you can recharge etc. I can't say if I will or will not need to be in Donegal next week, if I do I like to know that I can jump in my car on half a tank if fuel and get there.

08-09-2013 3:07pm

Max Power1 wrote: »

Have they said what they expect the range to be? I would imagine that 200-250 miles of range would be a mental turning point for people. I think it is just the fact that the current range is in (or near to) double digits only. 200+ and you have pretty much everyone in Ireland as a potential customer!

If based on the Leaf's efficiency according to the EPA (which is far more trustworthy then the BS NEDC ) then the Leaf needs 30 kwh average per 100 miles so the leaf would need 40 kwh or basically twice the battery size and that's can't be done with the cells they use, it would weigh 3,000 kg.

Tesla use a much higher energy density and use a 18650 cell type, i.e round and not pouch cells A4 size. These cells are made much cheaper using already in use production techniques.

Tesla's battery is huge so it naturally can take a higher cell charge and discharge rate. The smaller the battery the harder that is. So the need for an ev specific cell.

Tesla say in around 3-4 years they will have a 200 mile range Ev that is affordable, and they will do it, as that's their goal.

Most of the worlds car makers do not want to do this, and this is why Tesla will succeed in this regard, with the exception of Nissan, But Nissan made some poor choices in battery choice. One of the reasons Renault went with LG Chem. Nissan being mainly ICE producer did not have the expertise that Tesla have in battery pack design so they had to use bigger more expensive cells that are already out dated. And because of contracts they can't simply change manufacturer and they can't change the battery so early in the leaf's cycle life, it would be far too expensive and one of the reasons you'll not see new battery technology in the Leaf when it's battery wears out. I'd be very surprised if they did.

Leaf II will be very interesting.

Max Power1 · 08-09-2013 3:18pm

166man wrote: »

You're still only looking at the car from how quickly it goes off the line. What about how it corners, stops, changes direction at the flick of your wrist etc. these are all things that make it a drivers car, not just torque. I can't see the Spark or the Leaf etc being in anyway fun to drive. I'd miss petrol power. The smell of burning fuel and rasping my twinspark right up to 7k revs.

.

For me, the sound of the gear change in the 535 at 5000 rpm, foot flat to the floor, getting tunnel vision, is what I would miss.

You couldnt powerslide in a leaf :P

But it goes back to what I said earlier. The leaf/ev could be used for the boring stuff like 40km motorway trips to work and back. But, if I had to rush into hospital or someone told me I had to be in cork in 2hrs I know what I would want and it would not be the ev.

For the laugh, is there anyone with an EV that is going to the trackday!!!:D:D:D

Chevy Spark EV 90 miles range @100 kph

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