Chevy Spark EV 90 miles range @100 kph

Matt Simis · 11-09-2013 2:30pm

Yeah I basically disagree with the above, you are just randomly saying things now. :pac:

11-09-2013 2:33pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

with regards to the I8, how come there is no diesel equivalent?

A diesel would be bigger and heavier and noisier. Harder to control emissions.

keithclancy · 11-09-2013 2:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The Germans still couldn't build an EV like the Model S because as you say Tesla chose cell (sizes) i.e 18650 cells that are already in production, but it's not just that it's the design of the battery as in the whole pack, and bms systems and the cooling systems.

rather than build a pointless ultra expensive toy, BMW could have built a 40 kwh ev half affordable 3 series size car, even 5 series with a real 150 mile range it would have been far more worth while than the useless pile of crap they built. And it would still have cost far less. And then they can sell ice cars if that's what they want.

Why did they not build a proper decent range ev ? simple, they don't have to and/or they can't, the I3 is there to keep the German Government off their back, problem solved.

They built the Mini E with a 100 mile range back in 2009.

So I would definitely say its possible, however at the time they found that to overcome range anxiety a second car was needed.

11-09-2013 2:37pm

Matt Simis wrote: »

Yeah I basically disagree with the above, you are just randomly saying things now. :pac:

It all comes down to the biggest fact. BMW are an ice maker and they do not want to change this more than anything.

BMW make huge profits and it isn't necessary to make electric cars unless they are forced to, as is the reason for the I3.

keithclancy · 11-09-2013 2:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

A diesel would be bigger and heavier and noisier. Harder to control emissions.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08/16/review_volvo_v60_plug_in_hybrid_4wd/

Like the V60 Diesel Hybrid ?

49grams of Co2 per KM.

11-09-2013 2:39pm

keithclancy wrote: »

They built the Mini E with a 100 mile range back in 2009.

So I would definitely say its possible, however at the time they found that to overcome range anxiety a second car was needed.

They built the mini with no back seats !

The Mini is severely over priced and no one would pay for an all electric version.

Idbatterim · 11-09-2013 2:40pm

It all comes down to the biggest fact. BMW are an ice maker and they do not want to change this more than anything.

BMW make huge profits and it isn't necessary to make electric cars unless they are forced to, as is the reason for the I3.

yeah as far as I know, they have to reduce the average fleets Co2 levels to a certain amount, thats probably why they are making the I3 and I8, so they can still continue to do, what they do best. Build gas guzzling tanks like 760 etc

11-09-2013 2:41pm

keithclancy wrote: »

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08/16/review_volvo_v60_plug_in_hybrid_4wd/

Like the V60 Diesel Hybrid ?

49grams of Co2 per KM.

When the battery runs out I'd like to see the emissions. But they don't test these cars with 0 battery.

Same with the Volt/ampera

So you got a choice to plug it in or not.

keithclancy · 11-09-2013 2:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

When the battery runs out I'd like to see the emissions. But they don't test these cars with 0 battery.

Same with the Volt/ampera

So you got a choice to plug it in or not.

I'd like to see a test with an Electric car that has 0 battery :rolleyes:

0-60 in 4 hours etc

Zubeneschamali · 11-09-2013 2:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why did they not build a proper decent range ev ?

Because there is no such thing as a decent range ev, and there isn't going to be until battery technology advances at least another generation.

Max Power1 · 11-09-2013 2:50pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Because there is no such thing as a decent range ev, and there isn't going to be until battery technology advances at least another generation.

I think this is the crux of the issue.

It is like the development of the car at first, there were lots of different configurations, pedal positions gearing methods etc etc before the current structure was reached. Even some of the very first cars had to have their fire lit before they would start

We are currently (still?) at this inception stage with EVs. We have not passed the stage (like in the initial development of the motor car in the final years before the turn of the 20th century) where the EV is anything other than a novelty

11-09-2013 2:51pm

The Volvo at least has half decent battery, but no fast charging.

The motor is too small for all electric drive.

I'm not saying the volvo is a bad car, it's not but the emission figures are BS the test could get only 55 mpg compared to the 155 mpg figure, meaning the C02 figure is bound to be much higher.

Will people plug it in ? well I doubt if anyone pays 50 K Euro's for a car could care less.

One of the things is it only emphasises C02 which is harmless to us humans, they don't mention the nox, pm etc which is doing us harm.

11-09-2013 2:53pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Because there is no such thing as a decent range ev, and there isn't going to be until battery technology advances at least another generation.

Well if you have a 500 mile range EV I'd like to see how you would charge it. ?

The Future is faster charging, I doubt range will ever be necessary past 200-250 miles if you can charge in 5 mins.

Nuclear batteries would be super, refuel once every 10 years.

Max Power1 · 11-09-2013 2:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if you have a 500 mile range EV I'd like to see how you would charge it. ?

The Future is faster charging, I doubt range will ever be necessary past 200-250 miles if you can charge in 5 mins.

Nuclear batteries would be super, refuel once every 10 years.

Why do ICE cars have such large fuel tanks, allowing such range, especially in larger cars, if it is not needed?

keithclancy · 11-09-2013 3:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not saying the volvo is a bad car, it's not but the emission figures are BS the test could get only 55 mpg compared to the 155 mpg figure, meaning the C02 figure is bound to be much higher.

I don't think people give a crap as long as the motor and registration tax is low.

Similarly you will never get the full range of a leaf or whatever if you are going flat out the whole time down the motorway.

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if you have a 500 mile range EV I'd like to see how you would charge it. ?

The Future is faster charging, I doubt range will ever be necessary past 200-250 miles if you can charge in 5 mins.

Nuclear batteries would be super, refuel once every 10 years.

Ah here.... this is a bit 'Oirish' now.

What if I want to drive from Dusseldorf to Munich as people quite frequently do ?

11-09-2013 3:03pm

Max Power1 wrote: »

Why do ICE cars have such large fuel tanks, allowing such range, especially in larger cars, if it is not needed?

Most people don't drive 500 miles in a week never mind a day.

Large tanks are there because they don't take up so much space.

Lithium air batteries will probably offer the energy densities to achieve such range in the next 10 years or so.

By then current batteries will most likely be close to 200 miles.

Longer lasting faster charging batteries will be the game changer more than anything.

When 500 miile range EV's arrive people will then be crying it takes too many mega watts to charge them !

Matt Simis · 11-09-2013 3:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It all comes down to the biggest fact. BMW are an ice maker and they do not want to change this more than anything.

BMW make huge profits and it isn't necessary to make electric cars unless they are forced to, as is the reason for the I3.

No, and this underlines your warped perception. BMW are a car manufacturer, in the business of making money. Were you a motoring enthusiast you would have the experience of seeing BMW moving from 4-pot to 6-pot to V12 to 3 cylinder, from NA to FI to NA to FI, to Diesel to Diesel M-Cars from RWD to AWD etc etc. They arent defined by technology, they (aspire to be) defined by the Ultimate/Fun/Joyful expression of motoring. They also release products that disgust their hardcore fans in the aims of maintaining relevance and marketshare.. you know, like a business should.

And thats just BMW, the other actual car marques are the same.

The above literrally highlights you massive mis-understanding on the market. Its not "us" vs "them". Just such an utterly and completely incorrect assessment.

11-09-2013 3:06pm

keithclancy wrote: »

I don't think people give a crap as long as the motor and registration tax is low.

Similarly you will never get the full range of a leaf or whatever if you are going flat out the whole time down the motorway.

Ah here.... this is a bit 'Oirish' now.

What if I want to drive from Dusseldorf to Munich as people quite frequently do ?

Then you can buy a model S 85 kwh and charge over lunch !

11-09-2013 3:10pm

This is Tesla's predicted Model S range at the end of 2014 with the supercharger network installation taking place already with 6 in Norway as we speak.

Ireland is not there for obvious reasons, we're too insignificant and poor and won't be buying Model S's any time soon.

200 mile range in 30 mins,

Elon is planning 240 kw charging soon bringing that down to not much more than 5-10 mins !

Zubeneschamali · 11-09-2013 3:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Large tanks are there because they don't take up so much space.

Car makers have stopped providing a spare wheel or a place to store one to save weight and improve mpg/CO2. If they could cut 30 kg by halving the fuel tank size on my S-Max, they'd do it like a shot.

But then they'd have to try and sell a car with half the range of its rivals and no-one would buy it.

11-09-2013 3:25pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Car makers have stopped providing a spare wheel or a place to store one to save weight and improve mpg/CO2. If they could cut 30 kg by halving the fuel tank size on my S-Max, they'd do it like a shot.

But then they'd have to try and sell a car with half the range of its rivals and no-one would buy it.

Just shows how lazy people are if they can't fill up a car more than they used to. Ridiculous !

Zubeneschamali · 11-09-2013 3:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if you have a 500 mile range EV I'd like to see how you would charge it ?

Yes, this is another problem. The sort of electrical machines that are capable of charging a battery with enough juice to rival 60 litres of diesel in 2 minutes are usually surrounded by a tall fence 10 meters away covered in yellow DANGER! CROSS THIS AND DIE! signs.

Max Power1 · 11-09-2013 3:30pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Most people don't drive 500 miles in a week never mind a day.

Large tanks are there because they don't take up so much space.

Which begs the question why have 80-100kg of fuel on board if it is not needed. This is 7% of my cars weight, when the manufacturers remove space savers that are half this weight.

keithclancy · 11-09-2013 3:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just shows how lazy people are if they can't fill up a car more than they used to. Ridiculous !

Yes .... clearly the customer is stupid

Max Power1 · 11-09-2013 3:33pm

keithclancy wrote: »

Yes .... clearly the customer is stupid

And not the company who want us to go from a 500 mile range to a 90 mile one

Zubeneschamali · 11-09-2013 3:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just shows how lazy people are if they can't fill up a car more than they used to. Ridiculous !

Yep, Nissan Leaf sales will skyrocket as soon as they can sell them to your fellow Vulcans.

On Earth, to humans, probably not.

11-09-2013 3:39pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, this is another problem. The sort of electrical machines that are capable of charging a battery with enough juice to rival 60 litres of diesel in 2 minutes are usually surrounded by a tall fence 10 meters away covered in yellow DANGER! CROSS THIS AND DIE! signs.

There wouldn't be any danger because power "ONLY" flows "WHEN" the plug is connected to the car.

500 miles range based on the Leaf efficiency of 30 kwh/mile =150 kwh battery

charging @150 kw= 1hr 300 kw in 30 mins and 450 kw in 15 mins, if I got my maths right. at home on a 30 amp single phase connection = 21 hrs, 7 kw x 21 hrs = 147kwh !

Cost would be 12 Euro's if you could charge at home !

So say .5mw for 15 mins, that would be some serious power but I'm sure it's possible.

Charging at home would be possible as you would not do 500 miles a day so the range is there when you need it.

The most you would use on a 100 mile commute would be 30 kwh leaving 120 kwh in the battery.

keithclancy · 11-09-2013 3:41pm

Max Power1 wrote: »

And not the company who want us to go from a 500 mile range to a 90 mile one

Try to explain to a German that they'll save a bucket load of money if they spend 95k on a Tesla S with limited range.

They'll have to plan where they stop on their journey to charge it.

And not drive too fast because that'll run down the battery too quickly.

The Answer would be

If it was that much hassle i'd just get the train.

11-09-2013 3:42pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yep, Nissan Leaf sales will skyrocket as soon as they can sell them to your fellow Vulcans.

On Earth, to humans, probably not.

They are selling as fast as they can make them and in the U.S where fuel is cheap but cars usually thirstier. Sales are picking up.

Max Power1 · 11-09-2013 3:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

They are selling as fast as they can make them and in the U.S where fuel is cheap but cars usually thirstier. Sales are picking up.

So, in the US, where generally fuel tanks are bigger (I was looking at a US car the other day with a 40gallon fuel tank for example) customers are more willing than in the EU to sacrifice range for economy, when they already have cheaper gas than we have by about 50%?

Doesnt add up tbh

Chevy Spark EV 90 miles range @100 kph

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