Chevy Spark EV 90 miles range @100 kph

Joe 90

Deleted User wrote: »

Max I told you before, you can't compare the torque of an electric motor with that of an ICE, it's just completely different.

Torque of the AC Synchronous Motor is also not a function of RPM but of Current applied to the coils and that is available at all rpm.

HP of 130 is enough to bring the Spark to 90 mph but it's the torque that gets it there in 7.5 ish seconds, and it's heavy. If it was half the weight could be 5 seconds or less.

in EV volts x amps = watts

amps = torque and volts = speed

hp is a unit of power in this case being volts x amps = watts = HP

So if they want more torque they will add more amps and it may or may not go faster depending on the final gear but all they have to do is increase the volts.

volts x amps = power = torque x rpm.

power x time = energy.

Power gives you performance and energy lightens your wallet.:)

Henry Ford III

You'd need to be careful drag racing a Spark. A few flat out runs with the radio heater and lights on and it'll need a recharge.

Joe 90

CiniO wrote: »

This is pure bullsh1t...
At zero RPMs power is 0.
Power = torque * revolutions (obivously assuming compartibile units)
If torque is constant through all RPM range in EV, then power chart would be a straigh rising line up to max rpm.

But I don't think that EV has constant torque over all rpm range.

In fact you can produce an electric motor which has peak torque at zero rpm and decreases as the revs increase or you can produce an electric motor which has constant torque. You decide what you want and build it accordingly.
But, as I said in another post:
volts X amps = power = torque X rpm. That is a fact, less of course the losses due to inefficiency.

Joe 90

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You'd need to be careful drag racing a Spark. A few flat out runs with the radio heater and lights on and it'll need a recharge.

You'd need a drag strip with a charger:)
Or trailer it to the strip like a proper race car.:)

SV

SV wrote: »

lol. LOL.
This really has just summed this thread up in terms of how ridiculous the argument is.

It's isn't ridiculous if someone learns something from it ? If I can be educated more on engines and someone else on EV's or both, then that's hardly a waste is it ?

Joe 90

Joe 90 wrote: »

You'd need a drag strip with a charger:)
Or trailer it to the strip like a proper race car.:)

Na I'd have a direct 3 phase connection to moneypoint !

Joe 90

Deleted User wrote: »

Na I'd have a direct 3 phase connection to moneypoint !

And if you really want to win with an EV you could adapt the launch laser system from 'High Justice'.

Max Power1

Deleted User wrote: »

It's isn't ridiculous if someone learns something from it ? If I can be educated more on engines and someone else on EV's or both, then that's hardly a waste is it ?

No but it kindof sums up the bias that we are dealing with when an ev with 130bhp and peak torque at 2k rpm equivalent is being classed as a "fast car"

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

You're forgetting that electric cars are a lot more efficient so you don't need the equivalent of petrol or diesel.

LOL, are you serious? The low efficiency of an ICE (say 70%) compared to the high efficiency of an EV (say 100%) is immaterial compared with the energy storage figures of 20kWh vs 700kWh...

Joe 90

Joe 90 wrote: »

And if you really want to win with an EV you could adapt the launch laser system from 'High Justice'.

No I wouldn't bother, I'd just turn on warp drive, punch a hole in space time and be back before the start of the race !

unkel

unkel wrote: »

LOL, are you serious? The low efficiency of an ICE (say 70%) compared to the high efficiency of an EV (say 100%) is immaterial compared with the energy storage figures of 20kWh vs 700kWh...

ICE is more like 30 % for a petrol and 40 ish for a diesel could even be less than this.

IF the Leaf requires average of 30 kwh per 100 miles then it would need 150 kwh for 500 miles.

I get roughly 520 miles on 38 litres in the Prius.

That's a long way off 700 kwh !

Joe 90

Deleted User wrote: »

ICE is more like 30 % for a petrol and 40 ish for a diesel could even be less than this.

IF the Leaf requires average of 30 kwh per 100 miles then it would need 150 kwh for 500 miles.

I get roughly 520 miles on 38 litres in the Prius.

That's a long way off 700 kwh !

I make that about 62 mpg, pretty good for a big barge in the real world. At what sort of speed and what sort of driving?

Joe 90

Joe 90 wrote: »

I make that about 62 mpg, pretty good for a big barge in the real world. At what sort of speed and what sort of driving?

Various speeds roads etc but the trick is learning to use the hybrid system properly.

The Prius isn't a barge.

Herself manages 53 mpg but she couldn't care less about divine efficient. That's mainly motorway 120 130 kph

Joe 90

Deleted User wrote: »

Various speeds roads etc but the trick is learning to use the hybrid system properly.

The Prius isn't a barge.

Herself manages 53 mpg but she couldn't care less about divine efficient. That's mainly motorway 120 130 kph

I get about 52 in the wife's Ka, mostly motorway at a genuine 75 to 80 mph. I say mostly motorway but that particular run that I use it for has the dreaded Dartford crossing and a fair few miles of roadworks to screw thinks up at the moment.

Max Power1

Deleted User wrote: »

Various speeds roads etc but the trick is learning to use the hybrid system properly.

The Prius isn't a barge.

Herself manages 53 mpg but she couldn't care less about divine efficient. That's mainly motorway 120 130 kph

Thats terrible, considering the Prius is supposed to be an uber efficient hybrid

I used to get more than that in my 13yo golf. Hell, I nearly get that in the 535d if im cruising constantly at 120 kph city-city on the motorway

Would have expected better from an "uber green hybrid" tbh
The new 1.0 diesel vw's do 20-30 mpg better than that without any hybrid tech.

galwaytt

Deleted User wrote: »

No the range won't be pitiful with the heat on like the Leaf because the battery is heated which makes a much bigger difference than actually using the heat.

I don't know the actual consumption figures yet or if it's got a heat pump or not.

the A/C is pretty efficient anyway so it wouldn't be hard on the battery.

With the Leaf you got reduced range in the cold because the battery is not heated and the heater.

...sorry, but my 1983 Inter Cert physics is still ingrained on my psyche: The Law of Conservation of Energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but only changed from one form to another.

I think :pac:

by which I mean, where does the heat to heat the the battery come from, magically. Er...the battery...?...that'll be the.........same........battery is it ? IOW, the battery creates heat.........to heat itself.

I sincerely doubt Chevrolet have cracked zero-loss energy generation and transmission.

Look at it his way: using the climate control in our old Saab or my TT takes up about 3mpg............there's nowt for nowt in this world.

Even the buildings we manufacture, with air-air heat pumps have COP of some ratio or other - but I can guarantee you it's not 'infinity' !!

Matt Simis

galwaytt wrote: »

...sorry, but my 1983 Inter Cert physics is still ingrained on my psyche: The Law of Conservation of Energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but only changed from one form to another.

The inference is that EVs get crippled in cold weather due to the Chemical inefficiencies in Batteries. To combat that they heat (or cool on the other end of the spectrum) the packs (and the driver). This as you point out, also consumes energy. So also a loss, but possibly not as bad as trying to use the batteries at frigid temps. Definitely worse in the real world than the Arizona tests suggest however.

So while EV types constantly go on about efficiency over ICE, which produces free heat (given Otto, Atkinson and Diesel are all technically Heat Engines, this is part of their design) they routinely omit the fact heat is needed and desired, clawing back a percentage of that allegedly "lost" efficiency.

Joe 90

Matt Simis wrote: »

The inference is that EVs get crippled in cold weather due to the Chemical inefficiencies in Batteries. To combat that they heat (or cool on the other end of the spectrum) the packs (and the driver). This as you point out, also consumes energy. So also a loss, but possibly not as bad as trying to use the batteries at frigid temps. Definitely worse in the real world than the Arizona tests suggest however.

So while EV types constantly go on about efficiency over ICE, which produces free heat (given Otto, Atkinson and Diesel are all technically Heat Engines, this is part of their design) they routinely omit the fact heat is needed and desired, clawing back a percentage of that allegedly "lost" efficiency.

Of course the EV brigade totally ignore the inefficiencies in the power station, the transmission and the charging systems. They only talk about the efficiency of the electric motor.:)

Max Power1

Joe 90 wrote: »

Of course the EV brigade totally ignore the inefficiencies in the power station, the transmission and the charging systems. They only talk about the efficiency of the electric motor.:)

Not to mention that they ignore that the vast majority of electricity from the power stations is generated from fossil fuels. So it still is non-renewable. Just like ICE's.

dgt

Deleted User wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I was expecting a better reply than that. How disappointing, just like the Spark :rolleyes:

Henry Ford III

It's a reflection on just how pathetically impractical these vehicles are that a thread is started to highlight a potential range of 90 miles.

Come back to us when the range goes up to say 500 miles Mad Lad.

kippy

Joe 90 wrote: »

Of course the EV brigade totally ignore the inefficiencies in the power station, the transmission and the charging systems. They only talk about the efficiency of the electric motor.:)

Could be said for both sides of the argument..........


I said this before but for our family, the main issue with an EV is the initial cost and as time goes by, size.

The actual range is ideal for someone working in or near a city, who may be part of a two cat household however there are still issues with charging points, initial cost and the size of the vehicle.

I suppose I think of the traffic that comes into Galway city on a daily basis from all sides of the country. I would suggest that a lot of these people are in one passenger cars and wouldn't do a round trip commute of more than 50 or 60 miles.
Ideally these people should be using public transport, but it doesn't exist.

Joe 90

kippy wrote: »

Could be said for both sides of the argument..........


I said this before but for our family, the main issue with an EV is the initial cost and as time goes by, size.

The actual range is ideal for someone working in or near a city, who may be part of a two cat household however there are still issues with charging points, initial cost and the size of the vehicle.

I suppose I think of the traffic that comes into Galway city on a daily basis from all sides of the country. I would suggest that a lot of these people are in one passenger cars and wouldn't do a round trip commute of more than 50 or 60 miles.
Ideally these people should be using public transport, but it doesn't exist.

Yes, the problem is what you get for the cost. You start off by paying a lot of money for a car that is limited. If you want to do any sort of longish journey you have to seriously plan ahead, possibly add the cost and inconvenience of an otherwise unwarranted overnight stay or possibly hire another car.

For my sensible driving, one of them would o most of it but I would be left with the need to get hold of something else for the days when I need to do a couple of hundred miles. It would have be be cheaper than basic hatchback for it to make any sense to me.

Max Power1

Max Power1 wrote: »

Thats terrible, considering the Prius is supposed to be an uber efficient hybrid

I used to get more than that in my 13yo golf. Hell, I nearly get that in the 535d if im cruising constantly at 120 kph city-city on the motorway

Would have expected better from an "uber green hybrid" tbh
The new 1.0 diesel vw's do 20-30 mpg better than that without any hybrid tech.

I don't think it's bad for a petrol automatic with 10 year old technology to be honest, it's not worse than most modern diesels of similar size and power.

64 mpg does me fine, 840 kms on 38 litres is pretty good, Granted a polo Bluemotion 1.2 TDI 80 hp would probably do a lot better but it's a lot smaller car too. But the size would be fine for commuting.

Now that I'm well used to the Prius I don't think I'll be going back to diesel however if I had to I would probably like to try the new clio diesel with it's claimed 90 mpg extra urban figure. If I could get 80 then I'd probably be persuaded however at the cost to purchase new I wouldn't be saving.

Prius on LPG would be a much better bet.

Maybe the new 1.0L would do better however I couldn't live with 60 hp and 75 lbs torque. Unless they are turbo ?

Can't reply to all posts now.

I'll be back !

Max Power1

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think it's bad for a petrol automatic with 10 year old technology to be honest, it's not worse than most modern diesels of similar size and power.

64 mpg does me fine, 840 kms on 38 litres is pretty good, Granted a polo Bluemotion 1.2 TDI 80 hp would probably do a lot better but it's a lot smaller car too. But the size would be fine for commuting.

Now that I'm well used to the Prius I don't think I'll be going back to diesel however if I had to I would probably like to try the new clio diesel with it's claimed 90 mpg extra urban figure. If I could get 80 then I'd probably be persuaded however at the cost to purchase new I wouldn't be saving.

Prius on LPG would be a much better bet.

Maybe the new 1.0L would do better however I couldn't live with 60 hp and 75 lbs torque. Unless they are turbo ?

It's not bad, but it is not the "uber green" planet saving efficiency that it seems to have gotten a rep for. Granted it is good for a largish petrol auto, but not good for a machine who's economy is supposed to be the main selling point.

If I wanted pure economy I would get either a vw bluemotion diesel lupo, or a fiat panda diesel. Both of which are better for the environment than the prius.

thecomedian

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Various speeds roads etc but the trick is learning to use the hybrid system properly.

The Prius isn't a barge.

Herself manages 53 mpg but she couldn't care less about divine efficient. That's mainly motorway 120 130 kph

So real world mpg is 53, and that's driven normally and not hard. It's not bad but a diesel would do the same.

Max Power1

Max Power1 wrote: »

It's not bad, but it is not the "uber green" planet saving efficiency that it seems to have gotten a rep for. Granted it is good for a largish petrol auto, but not good for a machine who's economy is supposed to be the main selling point.

If I wanted pure economy I would get either a vw bluemotion diesel lupo, or a fiat panda diesel. Both of which are better for the environment than the prius.

I'd love a test in above cars, especially the new Clio diesel. In fact I'd love to be a Auto Journalist that could give proper reviews of cars and not just rally the car and talk about the handling all the time.

The Prius is or was at the time made from far more recycled materials than any other car, they battery is recyclable and the motor, inverter etc, and the body is aluminium. It's not any less environmentally friendly than any other car production wise, it is though one of the cleanest cars on the roads, emissions wise.

I didn't get the Prius for anything other than it was a steal at the Price, I got it at least 3k cheaper than garage or Private because the chap I got it off of wanted rid of it to take back to Poland. And I was Happy and surprised that my mpg went from 48 to 60-64 mpg. And for not that much less power and far more interior room.

The Prius has superb reliability record and that was the icing on the cake. It's certainly been the most reliable vehicle I've ever driven which is remarkable considering the complexity of it.

At the time the mpg of the Prius was pretty damn good in late 2003 when it was announced, diesel cars have not advanced that much and those with better mpg than the prius i.e above 64 mpg will usually be smaller and have less power.

thecomedian

thecomedian wrote: »

So real world mpg is 53, and that's driven normally and not hard. It's not bad but a diesel would do the same.

See the thing me getting 60-64 mpg is normal now to me and the hybrid driving is 2nd nature to me now I don't really think about it.

In fact not that many diesel automatics can get 64 mpg either never mind manual diesels.

Joe 90

Joe 90 wrote: »

Yes, the problem is what you get for the cost. You start off by paying a lot of money for a car that is limited. If you want to do any sort of longish journey you have to seriously plan ahead, possibly add the cost and inconvenience of an otherwise unwarranted overnight stay or possibly hire another car.

Thing is if you are buying new or 2nd hand at a similar price to the Leaf then it becomes viable, the 60 mile winter range on a (new) battery is limited and not even I can do a return trip to Dublin City, however most likely I wouldn't be driving to the City anyway and will park and charge at the Luas or QC at Bewleys Newlands Cross.

The Spark would add 20-30 odd miles which is always useful. But there are no fast chargers for U.S/E.U ev's yet.

Joe 90 wrote: »

For my sensible driving, one of them would o most of it but I would be left with the need to get hold of something else for the days when I need to do a couple of hundred miles. It would have be be cheaper than basic hatchback for it to make any sense to me.

Even if that were the case for me I wouldn't have a problem of getting a loan of an ICE for a few days if I absolutely had to, My Mother/Aunt/Sister. And for free ! just pay for petrol/diesel.

Fast charging in 20 mins for 150 miles range isn't exactly going to kill me 40 mins for 200-220 ish miles isn't going to kill me for the occasional long trip.

A good few hotels have chargers now too.