Rock & Roll Dublin City marathon - photogs wanted

Corkbah · 26-07-2013 10:03pm

AnimalRights wrote: »

People asking for threads to be locked I find irritating.

Referring the 'job' I will try it and that way I will see if I ever want to do it again, I don't work and I live in town so handy cider money for me...I hope.

hope you enjoy it ...best of luck

pullandbang · 26-07-2013 10:08pm

Corkbah wrote: »

look were all agreed that the work with Marathon foto's is a long hard day of repetitive work, but they do not advertise it as such - the advert claims the photographer would be finished by 12 noon (P&B said it was 5ish by the time they finished last year - and he had to travel back to Meath afterwards)

if he received €120 for his 12hours - minus €20 driving expenses - thats around minimum wage to me !! ... so why not advertise it as :

Want to work hard ...in a competitive environment earning near minimum wage... then call us ...we'll pay you some money !!

I can only assume you were typing this reply while I posted mine. You have your facts a little askew. The last shoot was the 12 hours and this one isn't. I got €150'ish IIRC and my expenses would have been a tenner given that I was sharing with missuspandb - for the €20 expenses you have to add in her €150 too!

pullandbang · 26-07-2013 10:11pm

AnimalRights wrote: »

Re: the thread, It's a good long read, it's a different read and while I mostly disagree with Corkbah he pursues his side of the argument pretty well.

I just can't wait until we start getting bitchy and calling each other names :eek:

keps · 26-07-2013 10:11pm

What are the Tax implcations - do you need your PPS number

could your property tax be deducted?

(joke ok)

Jonnykitedude · 26-07-2013 10:15pm

Corkbah wrote: »

I agree - but its a very long hard day and most would not consider it worth the money

offer was made to two people - one of which was you - you haven't accepted because you want more information.

like I said in my earlier post - you will be required to goto a location or number of locations between 3-4am on two days selected by me take a small number of images and send via email/ftp or post a CD of the images (unedited).

if that's not specific enough - the details are to be given within 12hours of shoot time - if you accept the job.

Did you give Marathon fotos a contract with your terms and conditions (you wanted me to sign a contract earlier in the thread)....doubt it.

look were all agreed that the work with Marathon foto's is a long hard day of repetitive work, but they do not advertise it as such - the advert claims the photographer would be finished by 12 noon (P&B said it was 5ish by the time they finished last year - and he had to travel back to Meath afterwards)

if he received €120 for his 12hours - minus €20 driving expenses - thats around minimum wage to me !! ... so why not advertise it as :

Want to work hard ...in a competitive environment earning near minimum wage... then call us ...we'll pay you some money !!

You wrong on a number of your points which pullandbang has stated to you!

I never said I wouldn't do the job, I said that I would if it suited me on certain days.

Do you ask all togs how far they are driving from? If they want to do the job and show on time etc then that's none of your concern.

With regards to the contract, no I didn't because they are a company, you had me believing that you where not a agency until your last response but an individual looking for me to take pictures and normally I would have all my clients sign one.

So you work for an agency??

keps · 26-07-2013 10:28pm

I think I am a very reasonable guy- and could do with a few euros at the moment.. I have worked all my life and don't mind getting stuck in.

And I am free and easy on that Bank Holiday Monday and just love taking photos.

I go to Naas races just to capture the movement of the horses- I go tho club Rugby matches and local soccer matches just to get close and personal to the action - and love going to the stand in Croke park with a long telephoto. No payment.

But getting paid 17 cents per photo( that marathonfoto might decide to accept) between 6am and 8.30am on a Bank Holiday Monday is way outside the realms of a reasonable offer.

As they say on Dragon's Den

I'm out:)

Corkbah · 26-07-2013 10:41pm

pullandbang wrote: »

No, just the Irish guy Neil McShane who is a former club member and he asked me to put a call out here and in the club.

Yet again you're wrong. The club members were also asked and they are doing it too - again.

Wrong again. The last one I did was the Dublin City Marathon - full day job. This is a half marathon as pointed out by keps earlier and I'm expecting to earn the same again for half the hours.

I'm just telling what happened last time. They ALL got free on street parking.

Without going into gory details, missuspandb suffers with a bad back and all the running around didn't agree with her. That's why she won't do it - nothing to do with the money.

Wrong again. This job is not a 12 hr day and the min you get is €60. Once you do your job properly you can expect to earn up to the €150 mark.
The details have been sent to those that expressed an interest and they can still opt out if it's not for them. No one came on here twisting anyone's arm to do this. As to the images being the property of MF, what did you expect? You are being hired by them to use their equipment and take photos for them - naturally the resulting images will then belong to them.

Apologies for the assumptions made and thanks for the correction.

I would be a bit concerned about the assumption you are making that by working half the time you will get approx the same money - only time will tell whether you will or not.

as regards the final paragraph - I agree - no-ones arm is being twisted - but there are people who think the job will be handy money when as you said yourself its a long hard day....its advertised as such (easy money before 12noon)

its not for me, it might be suitable for some but I believe the amount earned is not enough for the amount of work involved, as regards marathon fotos having the full copyright...for the money they are offering I'd expect a % of after sales to be included - to encourage photographers to shoot more and be creative with their photography.

Maybe I'm wrong but I believe a photographer should earn money from their images.

AnCatDubh · 26-07-2013 10:44pm

keps wrote: »

But getting paid 17 cents per photo( that marathonfoto might decide to accept) between 6am and 8.30am on a Bank Holiday Monday

I dunno Keps, I reckon you could shoot a whole lot of damage within 2.5 hours with burst mode even on a Nikon

What's it 6/8/10 fps @ .17c = €€€€€€

How many cards have they got in stock?

:pac:

Corkbah · 26-07-2013 10:46pm

pullandbang wrote: »

I can only assume you were typing this reply while I posted mine. You have your facts a little askew. The last shoot was the 12 hours and this one isn't. I got €150'ish IIRC and my expenses would have been a tenner given that I was sharing with missuspandb - for the €20 expenses you have to add in her €150 too!

apologies for the incorrect figures.

12hrs ....€150 - €10 for expenses = €140/12 just over €11 an hour - slightly above minimum wage.

but this is half the time (half-marathon) and you expect they will pay you the same money ? have you checked it with them and gotten it in writing.

keps · 26-07-2013 10:47pm

AnCatDubh wrote: »

I dunno Keps, I reckon you could shoot a whole lot of damage within 2.5 hours with burst mode even on a Nikon

What's it 6/8/10 fps @ .17c = €€€€€€

How many cards have they got in stock?

:pac:

This is before the race even starts - so you have to cajole people:)

Corkbah · 26-07-2013 10:50pm

AnCatDubh wrote: »

I dunno Keps, I reckon you could shoot a whole lot of damage within 2.5 hours with burst mode even on a Nikon

What's it 6/8/10 fps @ .17c = €€€€€€

How many cards have they got in stock?

:pac:

you forgot about the buffering and battery life ... buffering on cards would cut it back a bit but there is a max of €150 (from what I understand) ....and its only .17¢ per image that they accept (you might shoot thousands but they might only accept 50 @.17¢)

in theory it sounds great but they will be getting very similar images from all the other photographers so they will choose a few of each "bib number" which they offer for sale...they do not put every image taken up for sale.

pullandbang · 26-07-2013 10:54pm

Corkbah wrote: »

apologies for the incorrect figures.

12hrs ....€150 - €10 for expenses = €140/12 just over €11 an hour - slightly above minimum wage.

Min wage is €8.65 and €11 is over 27% higher than the minimum wage. I'd say the 27% is a bit more than "slightly"

Corkbah wrote: »

but this is half the time (half-marathon) and you expect they will pay you the same money ? have you checked it with them and gotten it in writing.

Yes!

Corkbah · 26-07-2013 10:57pm

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

You wrong on a number of your points which pullandbang has stated to you!

I never said I wouldn't do the job, I said that I would if it suited me on certain days.

Do you ask all togs how far they are driving from? If they want to do the job and show on time etc then that's none of your concern.

With regards to the contract, no I didn't because they are a company, you had me believing that you where not a agency until your last response but an individual looking for me to take pictures and normally I would have all my clients sign one.

So you work for an agency??

and I told you I was thinking of Mon/Tues or maybe Mon and Wed/Thurs.

I was asking P&B about the driving as I thought he may not have considered the possible extra expenses which are incurred when doing the work and now that I reflect on my earlier response - he said the travel expenses were halved because there was two of them, this year his expense will be €20 as the Mrs wont be there.

pullandbang · 26-07-2013 11:02pm

Corkbah wrote: »

...and its only .17¢ per image that they accept (you might shoot thousands but they might only accept 50 @.17¢)

Again you're wrong. It's 17c per bib captured and not whether they decide to accept them or not. By bib captured it means a visible number that can be read.

Corkbah wrote: »

in theory it sounds great but they will be getting very similar images from all the other photographers so they will choose a few of each "bib number" which they offer for sale...they do not put every image taken up for sale.

Wrong! See above.

Jonnykitedude · 26-07-2013 11:03pm

Corkbah wrote: »

and I told you I was thinking of Mon/Tues or maybe Mon and Wed/Thurs.

I was asking P&B about the driving as I thought he may not have considered the possible extra expenses which are incurred when doing the work and now that I reflect on my earlier response - he said the travel expenses were halved because there was two of them, this year his expense will be €20 as the Mrs wont be there.

I said I should be free Wed/Thurs night/morning.

No his travel expenses will still be halved as I'll be sharing transport with him

So you work for an agency??

pullandbang · 26-07-2013 11:07pm

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

No his travel expenses will still be halved as I'll be sharing transport with him

What? Who the fook are you? I don't know you. You're not getting in my car weirdo!

(Right I'm off to bed. See you in the morning at some ungodly hour and we'll go kill a few fish)

stcstc · 26-07-2013 11:10pm

my understanding is marathonfoto have an auto mated number recognition system

all the images are uploaded to their server, and the system recognizes the bib numbers and logs them against a database

the runners can then search by their number and choose which pictures to order

its not done by hand the processing system its all auto

and NO before you say it i have no connection whats so ever to do with marathonfoto

Corkbah · 26-07-2013 11:16pm

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

I said I should be free Wed/Thurs night/morning.

No his travel expenses will still be halved as I'll be sharing transport with him

So you work for an agency??

so you are saying no ...you are not willing to accept the job if its on a Monday/Tues....or Mon and Wed/Thurs as I said.

Work for ??? own ? it's immaterial - you've said you don't want to work if its not suitable for you.(wed/thurs/fri only)

- over the years I've worked for agencies, worked freelance and worked as staff as well as done commercial and industrial photography.

Jonnykitedude · 26-07-2013 11:27pm

Yes as I said the start of the week didn't suit as I'm working myself but after that I'm on annual leave. You did say "during the week" and I stated the days I'm free, if you want me to take theses "pictures" at 3am on the days I have specified that's not a problem.

Its a simple answer Corkbah, yes or no???

Oh and you did say come work for us....so who's us??

Corkbah · 26-07-2013 11:47pm

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

Yes as I said the start of the week didn't suit as I'm working myself but after that I'm on annual leave. You did say "during the week" and I stated the days I'm free, if you want me to take theses "pictures" at 3am on the days I have specified that's not a problem.

Its a simple answer Corkbah, yes or no???

Oh and you did say come work for us....so who's us??

please point out where I said "us" - I offered two of you the opportunity to "work" at 3am on two days of my choice (in reference to people saying they would like to work at any opportunity .... money is money and the chance to make easy money is available...on my terms)

keps · 26-07-2013 11:50pm

Nobody seems to have mentioned that the income from Marathonfoto is taxable

Jonnykitedude · 26-07-2013 11:52pm

Corkbah wrote: »

Want to work hard ...in a competitive environment earning near minimum wage... then call us ...we'll pay you some money !!

Ehhhh...

Jonnykitedude · 26-07-2013 11:56pm

Corkbah I have called your bluff, accept it!
Anyway I have wasted enough of my time on this.

If you ever do have a real job and want somebody, look me up

keps · 27-07-2013 12:02am

pullandbang wrote: »

I got €150'ish IIRC and my expenses would have been a tenner given that I was sharing with missuspandb - for the €20 expenses you have to add in her €150 too!

How much was that each after TAX

DaireQuinlan · 27-07-2013 12:08am

keps wrote: »

Nobody seems to have mentioned that the income from Marathonfoto is taxable

Huh ? Of course it's taxable. That's a given, unless you earn under whatever the threshold is nowadays.

keps · 27-07-2013 12:11am

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Huh ? Of course it's taxable. That's a given, unless you earn under whatever the threshold is nowadays.

all the figures being mentioned so far seem to assume there is no tax payable - I'm just wondering does the photo business operate in a 'black economy'?

DaireQuinlan · 27-07-2013 12:47am

keps wrote: »

all the figures being mentioned so far seem to assume there is no tax payable

Why do you think that ? It's not mentioned because it's assumed. In freelance situations the assumption is that the payee is responsible for his or her own tax affairs. Liability on whatever you get payed for the day could range from nothing to 40%+, all depends on the circumstances of the individual.

keps · 27-07-2013 12:49am

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Why do you think that ? It's not mentioned because it's assumed. In freelance situations the assumption is that the payee is responsible for his or her own tax affairs. Liability on whatever you get payed for the day could range from nothing to 40%+, all depends on the circumstances of the individual.

Or else it's assumed you say nothin' to nobody.
Which is my guess!

keps · 27-07-2013 2:26am

Remember I recommended M&S’s ‘The Boxer.

Here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2652UWuXhTA

Note the lines

I have squandered my resistance
For a pocket full of mumbles such are promises
All lies and jests
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest.

CabanSail · 27-07-2013 2:37am

I used to do some work for MarathonFoto and found them to be very good.

The other mobs may pay a bit more BUT they make you use your own gear. MF supply the gear and pay you to shoot for them. They use Nikon D2H bodies, and you normally have a spare.

If using your own gear you need to take in to account the cost per actuation on your shutter. To give you an idea, when I was shooting the Berlin Marathon I shot over 21thousand individual images on the day. 15K of them on one body. That's 10% of shutter life in a day.

Rock & Roll Dublin City marathon - photogs wanted

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