Welsh Lions: Brian O'Driscoll dropped from the 23 for 3rd Test [MOD NOTE POST 1]

Klunk_NZ · 07-07-2013 12:00pm

Jawgap wrote: »

Fair play to Gatland, him and his team won the series - he gambled big and he won big....

......but that doesn't make him a great coach. To paraphrase Yoda.....

"Wars do not make one great"

He came up with a system, found the beefy players to execute it ruthlessly and deservedly won, but I hope this is not the future of the game - hopefully someone will come up with a better way to play that moves the game on and negates this 'style.'

South Africa have been doing this for years in the professional era. Doesnt work consistently on teams with a dangerous back 3 (Say Dagg Jane Savea)

.ak · 07-07-2013 12:18pm

leakyboots wrote: »

Ah here, come out of the fog

You thought the first two tests were good?

[Jackass] · 07-07-2013 12:25pm

I think healthy servings of humble pue must be doled out around here.

Gatland made fools of all the press and neighsayers. Absolutely smashed the Australians, the only thing being that I don't think Davies did anything that BOD wouldn't have been more than capable of doing and it's a shame BOD never got the chance to play off Roberts, so still a bit bitter about that call, but as for the rest, you can't complain.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Gatland is a top class coach and I found it hard to doubt him, even warned that he would make fools of us all, and so he did.

Fair play to him.

On a side note, it is worth mentioning however, that having had two extremely close tests, is it a shock that the one test that Poite was ref for, the European team that has him week in, week out in regular season demolished the team not used to him?

AGAIN, the scrum was COMPLETELY illegal, 7 and / or 6 from Lions driving inwards, front row losing bing and popping up, but scrum moving forward and penalty given, plus his other mad interpretations, he completely changes an entire gameplan, which makes him the worst ref in the international game imo. He has WAY to much influence on how the game is played and a ref should merely be in the background, but he's such a picky fu*k and gets involved in everything - plus his token yellow card at scrum time - lest we forget, the whole purpose of a scrum is to restart the game, nothing more, the same as a lineout or a drop out - so how many yellow cards and penalties do we see from lineouts and drop outs compared to scrums? It's a joke and Poite is the biggest joker in the pack.

I also had to laugh at Barnes ONCE AGAIN saying Poite is the number one scrum referee - just because he has no fu*king clue about the scrum and thinks its purpose is to award a penalty to one side or the other DOES NOT mean he understands how it works, let alone is the best at reffing it. The only reason that type of "destructive" scrummaging only happens in Poite games is because the Lions would have been blown off the park by any other ref for illegal scrummaging.

Artful_Badger · 07-07-2013 12:26pm

Jawgap wrote: »

Fair play to Gatland, him and his team won the series - he gambled big and he won big....

......but that doesn't make him a great coach. To paraphrase Yoda.....

"Wars do not make one great"

He came up with a system, found the beefy players to execute it ruthlessly and deservedly won, but I hope this is not the future of the game - hopefully someone will come up with a better way to play that moves the game on and negates this 'style.'

Its the future of Welsh rugby but I cant see anyone who doesnt already employ it switching now, it wasnt very effective considering the Aussies were pretty poor.

Aussies should have won that first game, they messed up bad with their kicks. Second game they fixed some of their mistakes and the Lions were found out to some degree. Gatland's entire plan for that last game was based on the fact that he lucked a win already and he felt the Aussies were spent after the second test. In other words, change nothing in terms of the plan despite it not being good enough on two previous occasions (more if you look at Welsh record against the Aussies).

Fortunately for the Lions their front row did an amazing job and the Aussies did all in their power to avoid putting scores on the board.

robertlegear · 07-07-2013 12:44pm

Well in all fairness, welsh rugby has managed plenty of six nations grand slams in recent years so there was definitely pedigree in galtlands selection. Maybe if he had picked that team with o connell in the mix from the start the lions would have won all three tests easily. I just think that there was an obscenely vocal bod fanclub distorting the facts ever since he got dropped, the win totally vindicates gatlands decision.

07-07-2013 12:50pm

https://www.coursera.org/course/intrologic

Free courses for people on here.

.ak · 07-07-2013 12:51pm

robertlegear wrote: »

Well in all fairness, welsh rugby has managed plenty of six nations grand slams in recent years so there was definitely pedigree in galtlands selection. Maybe if he had picked that team with o connell in the mix from the start the lions would have won all three tests easily. I just think that there was an obscenely vocal bod fanclub distorting the facts ever since he got dropped, the win totally vindicates gatlands decision.

How? Davies was average at best yesterday?

Artful_Badger · 07-07-2013 12:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.coursera.org/course/intrologic

Free courses for people on here.

That looks like a pretty cool site, I might even take that logic course :P

robertlegear · 07-07-2013 1:12pm

.ak wrote: »

How? Davies was average at best yesterday?

41 - 16 enough said

.ak · 07-07-2013 1:22pm

robertlegear wrote: »

41 - 16 enough said

Absolutely not. What's the point of judging performances on results? If that was the case we wouldn't have Rugby Discussion forums.

Davies had no bearing on the score whatsoever.

Hype710 · 07-07-2013 1:32pm

.ak wrote: »

Absolutely not. What's the point of judging performances on results? If that was the case we wouldn't have Rugby Discussion forums.

Davies had no bearing on the score whatsoever.

Apart from playing a massive role in Sexton's try? Apart from a multitude of highly effective kicks? Come off it.

Hagz · 07-07-2013 1:34pm

BBDBB wrote: »

I only spotted that when I watched the highlights, but after Beales shove after the try there was a hint that Tommy Bowe subsequently shoved Beale. It was only one camera angle and then it switched to Sexton who appeared to see some kind of scuffle and he started to head back to the in goal area

Beale gave Sexton a shoulder after he touched down and then North patted Beale on the head which p*ssed him off and he went to go at North, but Bowe gives him a push and he falls over. I wish the camera would have stayed on it. The blurred version of it looked funny.

Teferi · 07-07-2013 1:34pm

Hype710 wrote: »

Apart from playing a massive role in Sexton's try? Apart from a multitude of highly effective kicks? Come off it.

You mean the try that Sexton scored which he set up himself?

Grandpa Hassan · 07-07-2013 1:39pm

Teferi wrote: »

You mean the try that Sexton scored which he set up himself?

And his very good kicking game

Tox56 · 07-07-2013 1:45pm

If Davies had a 9/10 performance I would understand, as it was he had a solid 7/10 game, but dropping BOD still just doesn't make any sense to me. Again if Maitland had started ahead of North and put in a 7/10 performance and we'd won, it still would have been a bizarre decision.

Phoeey · 07-07-2013 1:50pm

Tox56 wrote: »

If Davies had a 9/10 performance I would understand, as it was he had a solid 7/10 game, but dropping BOD still just doesn't make any sense to me. Again if Maitland had started ahead of North and put in a 7/10 performance and we'd won, it still would have been a bizarre decision.

I agree. It doesn't make any logical sense that Davies playing ahead of O Driscoll and the Lions winning = vindication of Gatland. A more apt comparison would be the dropping of Vunipola for Corbisiero.

Jawgap · 07-07-2013 1:58pm

robertlegear wrote: »

Well in all fairness, welsh rugby has managed plenty of six nations grand slams in recent years so there was definitely pedigree in galtlands selection. Maybe if he had picked that team with o connell in the mix from the start the lions would have won all three tests easily. I just think that there was an obscenely vocal bod fanclub distorting the facts ever since he got dropped, the win totally vindicates gatlands decision.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

robertlegear wrote: »

41 - 16 enough said

There wasn't one score he had direct hand where you could say 'but for Davies that wouldn't have been a try or penalty" neither did he play a direct role in any of the points conceded.

Just because Gatland wasn't wrong, does he mean he was right.

I'd give him credit for having the balls to stick by his convictions and pick 'his' team. It delivered a series win and an emphatic result on the day.

The only way this controversy would have been conclusively settled is if Davies had a howler and the Aussies won, or he had a blinder.

He had a solid game and never really looked like he was under pressure.

OldRio · 07-07-2013 2:04pm

For feck sake the scrum won the Lions the match. Period.

Though I think O'Brien playing instead of Warburton was a BIG factor.

:D:D

.ak · 07-07-2013 2:22pm

Hype710 wrote: »

Apart from playing a massive role in Sexton's try? Apart from a multitude of highly effective kicks? Come off it.

It was hardly a massive role. He passed the ball. I guess that just highlights how poor his distribution had been that people are lauding a simple pass that should be bread and butter stuff.

His kicking was good. But that was hardly the making of the game.

I'll stick by what I said. He was average, not poor by any means, but when all were on singing form around him he was probably the quietest in the backline.

jordainius · 07-07-2013 3:24pm

This "Gatland vindicated" stuff is nonsense, dropping O'Driscoll is not the difference between a 2 point game and a 25 point game.

That Australia team wasn't great, this was by far the weakest opposition the Lions have faced in the professional era (and for a decade or two before that), "vindication" for Gatland would have been a 3-0 series win, as it was they were very lucky not to be 2-0 down after the second test. Given the opposition, 2-1 is probably a slight underachievement.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good coach, his CV speaks for itself, but this vindication stuff is nonsense.

marienbad · 07-07-2013 3:50pm

jordainius wrote: »

This "Gatland vindicated" stuff is nonsense, dropping O'Driscoll is not the difference between a 2 point game and a 25 point game.

That Australia team wasn't great, this was by far the weakest opposition the Lions have faced in the professional era (and for a decade or two before that), "vindication" for Gatland would have been a 3-0 series win, as it was they were very lucky not to be 2-0 down after the second test. Given the opposition, 2-1 is probably a slight underachievement.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good coach, his CV speaks for itself, but this vindication stuff is nonsense.

He didn't need vindication. If it wasn't BOD it wouldn't even be a discussion point.

Webbs · 07-07-2013 4:38pm

.ak wrote: »

It was hardly a massive role. He passed the ball. I guess that just highlights how poor his distribution had been that people are lauding a simple pass that should be bread and butter stuff.

His kicking was good. But that was hardly the making of the game.

I'll stick by what I said. He was average, not poor by any means, but when all were on singing form around him he was probably the quietest in the backline.

In fact he beat one man and took another out of it for that try. His performance was very good and you could see the chemistry between him and Roberts at all times particularly in defence.
I still think BOD should have been in the 23 but Davies certainly did enough to justify his selection at 13.
Davies defence was solid, kicked very well and was a key factor in the decisive try. If BOD had put in that performance it would rightly be talked about as a very good one.

crybaby · 07-07-2013 4:40pm

Lions would have won with him on the pitch as well, I still don't understand the reasons why Davies was picked as I think Roberts and BOD are outstanding together .

Only got to see the game today and am delighted with the series win, test in 09' will always stick in my mind so it's fantastic to finally see them win

Tox56 · 07-07-2013 4:52pm

Webbs wrote: »

. If BOD had put in that performance it would rightly be talked about as a very good one.

Not sure, Davies' performance yesterday was similar to BOD's performance in the first test, where he was solid but people were expecting more, you have to remember BOD is judged by incredibly high standards.

ThirdMan · 07-07-2013 4:54pm

- Argue that we won't win the series.

(We win the series)

- Argue about how we won the series.

Seriously... BOD got dropped. Get over it.

.ak · 07-07-2013 5:46pm

ThirdMan wrote: »

- Argue that we won't win the series.

(We win the series)

- Argue about how we won the series.

Seriously... BOD got dropped. Get over it.

People can discuss what they want so long they don't break the forum charter.

This whole 'get over it' malarkey needs to stop. If people want to discuss the merit or BOD not being selected, then fine. If you don't want to be part of that discussion, then don't.

This is aimed at everyone by the way.

ThirdMan · 07-07-2013 5:52pm

.ak wrote: »

People can discuss what they want so long they don't break the forum charter.

This whole 'get over it' malarkey needs to stop. If people want to discuss the merit or BOD not being selected, then fine. If you don't want to be part of that discussion, then don't.

This is aimed at everyone by the way.

My apologies.

I feel that Warren Gatland got it absolutely right yesterday. In my eyes he's been fully vindicated. I'm delighted for him.

ThirdMan · 07-07-2013 5:54pm

.ak wrote: »

People can discuss what they want so long they don't break the forum charter.

This whole 'get over it' malarkey needs to stop. If people want to discuss the merit or BOD not being selected, then fine. If you don't want to be part of that discussion, then don't.

This is aimed at everyone by the way.

Incidentally, is asking that people 'get over it' breaking the Forum Charter?

thomond2006 · 07-07-2013 5:55pm

ThirdMan wrote: »

My apologies.

I feel that Warren Gatland got it absolutely right yesterday. In my eyes he's been fully vindicated. I'm delighted for him.

So in your mind his selection of Phillips was correct?

ThirdMan · 07-07-2013 5:57pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

So in your mind his selection of Phillips was correct?

Who's Philips? Was that the big lad?

Welsh Lions: Brian O'Driscoll dropped from the 23 for 3rd Test [MOD NOTE POST 1]

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