The Best 10k workouts - by Greg Mcmillan

FrClintPower wrote: »

Another late update on my McMillan sessions. Did the Pride Run the week before last in 20.42, so was happy to beat my target of 21 and hopefully it means I'm on track for sub-43 in Swords. Then last Thursday I did the third session, 2*2 miles and 2*1 miles, half-mile paces in brackets -

Interval 1 - 2 miles in 13.37.5 @6.49 (6.44, 6.42, 7.11, 6.38)
Interval 2 - 2 miles in 13.57.7 @6.59 (7.04, 7.04, 6.44, 7.04)
Interval 3 - 1 mile @7.02 (7.05, 6.59)
Interval 4 - 1 mile @6.48 (6.53, 6.42)

Pretty happy with the overall average pace of 6.54.5, and very happy to have completed them as I was tired and hungover beforehand. So onwards and upwards, thinking of doing a 20*400 or 24*400 session this week as recommended by Ceepo before the final McMillan 3*2 mile session next week.

Clint, well done, you're getting there! Is that a mistake above?? 24x400! I'm hoping you mean 24x200. If not.......... good luck.

Itziger wrote: »

Clint, well done, you're getting there! Is that a mistake above?? 24x400! I'm hoping you mean 24x200. If not.......... good luck.

Just to clarify. I did not recommend to do 24 x 400.
I was just saying I didn't see to many people doing this type if session but yet peoole were willing to do you 6 x 1 ml. Or any of the other sessions on here. Is that the same distance?

I have said before that I don't recommend doing the session on here for the reasons I have out line previous.
It doesn't really matter what session you do. But more the way its doneand Can only be seen in the context of the overall training plan and target.

Itziger wrote: »

Ceepo, as you are saying, and as we. ll know, it depends on the runner. I found the workouts here tough but doable and I think beneficial - which is the bottom line of training surely.

If someone said to me, do 6x1 mile at 10k pace I'd say, fine.
If they said do 24x400 at 3k pace (whatever that would be for me!) I'd say, No thanks!!! It's not just total distance, now is it?

Agree 100%
And that's my point on this thread.

If you look at the 400 session I stated earlier they were not at 3k pace.
The sample i gave on 1 athlete I coach done 4's @ 107 sec off 45 they are running 44 ish 10k
But I would not be asking them to do 24 of them nor 6 x 1ml.

If them sessions benefited you then great. If you improved from them even better.
Just to add that doesn't mean you might have improved more by doing different sessions.
That's not to say and again I would repeat that I would not recommended them to some one running the volume that op is running.

But as you quite rightly pointed out everyone is different.

There is also some great information in the 10k by debate thread.

Best of luck to yourself and indeed For Clint on his up coming race

Ok, new year, new 10k race. Same plan! Have already done the 6x1mile and the 1x2 + 4x1 mile sessions. Had forgotten how tough they can be. This year I'm setting the Garmin at a more realistic 1.66k = 1 mile and 3.30k = 2 miles (I know, I know!). Last Tuesday was the latter and I was pleased with it. The last of the single miles was the slowest but no harm. Was quite happy with the 2 miler, 11.45 I believe compared with last year's 11.58 and with a little added distance too. I did one 200mt rep session and hopefully this coming week will do a 400 mt effort. Maybe a dozen of em at 5k pace. I haven't really run a 5k but I'll do em at 3.30 km pace and see how they go. Maybe 3.20. Will see on the day.

This year's target 37:00 flat which would be 48 second improvement. Fairly big ask but wtf, you only live once!

wrstan wrote: »

Have you a race in mind Itziger?

My usual season opener: Postlaf in March. (In Luxembourg)

Update. Mixed report of the 3x2mile session.

Started off badly when I noticed a pain in my foot. Thought the lace was a bit tight or there was something in the sock but it turns out I had a minor blister. Burst it (I know!) but it did improve things a bit. The session itself was a bit up and down. After a 2.5k warm up I start the first - I'd set the Garmin distance at 3.26k cos this wasn't on the track and I reckon that is as near as bedamned to 2 miles in Garmin language. Was aiming/hoping for something a little under 12 minutes. First one came in at 11.47 but it was a bit downhill, and only figuratively, from there. Second one was 12.19 - not happy - but I was a bit more content when I managed 12.01 for the last. Also, the last was the most into the wind of the three so that was good.

While it wasn't what I was looking for, I'm not too despondent. I have done some half-decent runs in the last couple of weeks and will be more rested for the races in March than I was this morning. I took 3 and a half minute recovery instead of 5 which is surely too generous. I'm a tiny bit ahead of schedule as I was allowing for a missed session or two due to snow/ice. I could easily try this 3x2 again next week. Either that or go back to the first of the training spins, the 6x1 mile one. It would hopefully be easier now!!

belcarra wrote: »

Probably best to try this session again next week? I imagine the 6 x 1 would be a piece of pi$$ for you now (relatively speaking!). You will probably hit all targets next time out.
Or, how about a 2 x 3miler session? That would be a fair bit tougher again but even better training, no? (just keep an eye on recovery for whenever the races are!)

Yeah, you're probably right. Will repeat the 3x2m. I've kinda thought about the other possibility, the 2x3m but I don't see it recommended anywhere! There must be a reason.

YFlyer wrote: »

The 2 by 3 miles be done at tempo pace. More suitable for a 10 miler or HM.

Yeah that makes sense. Last year I did a 5k+5k+4k in my build up to a Half (At least I think that's what I did, must see if I can find it on Garmin records).

Done at Planned Half Pace.

Ok, probably last update before race on March 9th.

I've changed plan a little but I think it still works (I hope it does!)

Last Saturday I did a progression run with a Canadian Tri guy.. 4k@5min pace, 4k@4.30, 3k@4.00 and 3k@ 3.45. (It was supposed to be 4k at 4.00 pace but I had to change that on the hoof. My man couldn't do the 3.45 pace at all even though it was his suggestion and he's faster than me for 10k and Half.)

Yesterday I did a 5x2k at 3.40 pace. Didn't have my watch set for this and had to trust the bloke I was doing em with. I joined him halfway through his first rep. and I think we did the rest of them at the intended pace. Static walking rec of 2.5 minutes

Might do a session on Saturday. Don't know what yet, nothing TOOO strenuous. Is 8 days out ok for a decent session???

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'd have thought that 8 days out would be perfect for a final tough session for a 10k race (obviously different if you were targeting a marathon). IIRC, the final tough Macmillan session is supposed to be 9-12 days before the goal 10k, so you could argue that it's worth doing this session a little sooner. Doesn't sound like you're really following the Macmillan program anyway though, so this is more of a training log?

Still worth doing an abbreviated session with 4-5 days to go, like 3x1200m @threshold pace, with 2 mins easy running recovery, or something like that.

Krusty, I had been following the Mcm plan but I was a week ahead of schedule. As the last two bits were done with the upcoming 10k in mind I said I'd chuck em in here for people's perusal. Yes, the last big session is supposed to be 10 days out, I guess I could do 8. If all goes well I might try your last suggestion too. I tend to take things easy the week of a race, maybe too easy. I'm hoping to follow up the March 9th one with a second 10k the following Sunday.

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

No worries. Just wondering if you completed (or plan to complete) the key session, specifically the 3 x 2 mile. All of the other sessions are just building up to this one session (steps to get you to the big kahuna). Is that the one you're planning on doing 8 days out?

By the way, I tried to follow the plan a couple of years back and failed at the final hurdle, but still benefited much from the sessions. In the days leading up to the race, do whatever works best for you. Some strides a couple of days beforehand would work just as well (threshold running isn't too relevant to 10k anyway - just a suggestion to keep the legs ticking over).

I did the 3x2 miler though it wasn't that successful - think I've mentioned it above. The target pace is 3.40/3.45. As the PB is 37.48 anything in or around 3.45 would be a new best but I'm hoping to hit 37 flat if possible. Then the weekend after I may go more aggressive though that's a little against my running philosophy for the most part.

Belcarra, you seem to be very interested in my doing another 3x2. Do tell.

Btw, what are your upcoming goals?

belcarra wrote: »

Haha! No I just agree with KC.
Firstly, you are well timed doing it 8-10 days before the goal race and secondly if the initial session was tough then this is a chance to improve on that as well as gain further training adaptation. Otherwise it'll be the guts of 3 weeks between the goal session and your race at this stage and the plan (which you are following!) states the session should be 10 days before the goal race. Either you are following the plan or not?!;)

My only goal at this stage is Dusseldorf on April 27th. I'm doing Bohermeen HM @ MP this weekend and then 'jogging' Barcelona 6 weeks before D-Day. Still undecided about 'settling' for 3:15 or aggressively going for 3:10. The HM this weekend should tell a lot as I aim to thrown in 10km beforehand and then run the HM @ 4:30/km which would be MP for 3:10 marathon. If I can manage that for the full HM then I'll be in good shape. Probably more likely to ease back a little earlier though so we shall see...
Dusseldorf would be a nice day trip for a man in Luxembourg, ya?!

Dusseldorf you say......... Jaysus, I'd never have time to get the distance up by then! I wouldn't mind trying 3.15 maybe but anything faster I doubt. Nah, I'm not going there, literally or figuratively.
You're right about the plan of course, either I do it or I don't. That said, 5 x2 k yesterday isn't a
bad compromise!

Oops, I'm beginning to fell a little guilty! It was all Krusty's fault though!!

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

The plan is pretty straightforward. It lists the key workouts, and how far out from the race you should do them. If it's bad advice to suggest to someone that they should do the prescribed session in the prescribed time-frame, then there's little point in having training plans.

Just in case my comment was misinterpreted Krusty - i was only joking about trying to lay any blame on you! And tbh I don't really feel any hint of guilt for offering my advice either.

Itziger is big enough and old enough to know what to do with advice offered. Sounds like it was just a case of too much at once over the past week's training. Hopefully his plan for the run in to the goal race will get him across the line in goal time!

New 10k race, new pb. If anyone is interested in following the McMillan plan, I have a (b) option. Do a 10k one week out at near as possible to goal pace. Last week I got 37.29, this Sunday 37.07.

A small bit disappointed I couldn't find the 8 seconds but happy overall. Course was flatter but a tad twisty and I'm shocking going around corners, don't know why. There was a 2.5 k stretch into a stiff breeze and that added 10 seconds or so but there's always something, we don't run in a vacuum.

Hopefully will dip below the 37 later this year or next. For now through, enough of this. Must up the mileage.

Finnt wrote: »

I've a friend with a greyhound that's the same!! Seriously that's good running, fair okay to you. Just wondering what's your average weekly mileage?

Finnt, for this program me I've been doing roughly 60k or so a week I reckon. I don't log it religiously to tell the truth. I was doing a LR on Sundays of between 16 and 23 k. Would do one or two 15k runs and a snappier session in mid week. Maybe a 10k rec run now and again. Got out 4 or 5 times a week.

Longest weekly total probably near 75k actually. Took it easy before last week's race and the same before today's. Got out 3 times between the two races. 9k, 10k with a little pace and a short little track session just to remind the legs of speed - just a few 400's. Body felt ok today - not super good but happy enough all the same.

Been reading this thread in bits and pieces whenever I can find the time. Finally finished it. My goal 10K is 11 and a half weeks away. But I am gonna start this 8 week program tonight and a good idea I have seen in this thread is to start with either a 4x1mile or a 6x1K session. So seeing as I have a bit of extra time, I am gonna do that (6x1K with 3 minute recoveries) and then maybe straight into the 6x1 mile and keep a bit of my extra time in the bank to repeat a session later on. I'll see.

I have only raced the 10K distance twice and my PB is 49:40 from less than 3 weeks ago. That was a time I set after a pretty shambolic period between early december and early February where injuries screwed me up. So I know I can do a lot better than 49:40 with a good consistent stretch of training and some speedwork which I couldn't do very much of. I'm thinking a goal time of 47:59 is a good starting point to aim for which is fairly reasonable and hopefully it'll prove to be a conservative aim. Thing is, I haven't much of an idea what the course is like but they're saying it's nice and flat.

I am used to running on concrete or tarmac so I wanna start this trining on a flat GAA pitch and I'll use my lead-in time to get used to that too.

Itziger wrote: »

Interesting, you don't have access to a track, no? The Gaa pitch wouldn't be the worse option I suppose - what's the ground like these days? Giving yourself a week in hand isn't a bad idea, especially if you struggle at a session and feel you have to repeat it rather than move onto the next week. Otherwise I would try to stick to the plan (!).

Be interesting to see how it goes...... G'luck!

I have access to a track that's good for nothing more than 120 meter strides. That's about the length of it. There's another one in a local athletics club but it's not a real athletics track. So the GAA pitch will have to do. It's 2 pitches end-on-end and aye, I did discover to my cost last night that there is a bit of water logging in one patch of it

So I obliviously did the 6x1K session last night anyway - and got soaked - but really enjoyed it.

I found the first couple of reps most difficult. Is that unusual? Dunno. I suspect I'll say different when I do the same session in 2 weeks time in miles rather than kilometers.

There was a couple of problems. It was a fairly late session. I ran about 1.5 miles to the GAA club as my warm-up. By the time I got there it was 9:20pm and the GAA players were winding down their training. I managed to get 3x1K done before they turned the floodlights off on me. Feckers :mad:. So I had to do the second half of the session on the road.

The other problem is I am absolutely brutal at judging my pace. The intention was to do each Kilometer in 4:48....which happened to be exactly the average pace overall. But the splits show that individually, I was all over the place - going 23 seconds too slow one minutes and 24 seconds too fast in the very next repeat

I also did 3 minute recovery between each repeat which I think was over generous. I stuck to that anyway, even though I think I'd have managed 2 minutes just the same.

Splits: 4:34, 4:41, 5:11, 4:24, 4:48, 5:09. (was just getting the hang of the pace when having to run through a couple of busy junctions in the last Kilometer threw me off my rhythm) :rolleyes:

Will have to get there earlier in 2 weeks or find somewhere better.

Finnt wrote: »

I going to follow this for the next 8 weeks, coming off the back of a 19:24 5k ( course was short it was closer to 3 miles) what should I aim for in the 10k? Sub 42?

If you figure out what your real 5k time is - must be very close to 20 flat - then take it from there. Also, see how the first couple of weeks go. If you find it easy to hit the pace in training then you could readjust and go a little more aggressive.

Sub 42 sounds relatively soft. Go for it and best of luck. What type of Long Run are you planning?

Finnt wrote: »

Cheers itz,
I reckon I'll do lsr's upto 15-16 miles, I'm going to do the first session tomorrow so see how it goes before I nail down a definite goal, any other advice?

Man, I'm fairly inexperienced so run anything I say past a coach if you can, but I think there's a thin line between LSR's that are too long and leave you tired for the Q (as it were) session(s).

I think 12 to 13 miles with maybe one or two longer should be fine. Maybe also make one or two of the LSRs a bit more testing - ya know chuck in a couple of HM or even 10k pace kms/miles in the second half of a few but definitely keep them easy for the most part.